Scraping Stone - Burr Removal

So I was thinking about this...I try to practice hand scraping once a week in the shop, just on an extra piece of cast iron. Keeps the muscles loosened up and I place some random sharpie dots down as part of the exercise, try to scrape those off in a single short stroke, in order to practice the hand-eye coordination. So that aside, I was thinking...

What sort of stone is best for burr removal?

[also reading the end of this post had some ideas]
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-bearing-quality-progress-286620/#post2315448

Richard gave us all a stone in our class which I still have, but I was curious what the actual specs are...150-180 grit would be my initial guess. I don't have any others that coarse in my collection, thinking I might want to bring another one into stock

Shortly after attending one of Rich's classes, I ordered a couple of India stones from Enco. Looking back at my order and comparing the same items at MSC and Brownell's, shows only "Medium" for the grit. Since I placed the order within a couple of days after the class, I would expect that medium grit was what Rich recommended. He should be along shortly to enlighten us.

I'd be grateful for the code for the Enco stones if they're ok. I'm about to put in an order with them for more grinder wheels (I just picked up 69 at auction of various sizes and would you believe not ONE fits my little grinder ). I was informed last night that my good ol' diamond stone I use for deburring isn't the duck's guts after all so I may as well get those stones thrown in the Enco order.

Thanks

I have been buying this stone for years and it is the same stone my Dad bought. It is tapered to get down in the dovetails. Sometimes on small narrow doves I grind the thin edge sharper. As some know I break them in 1/2 when they are not flat by grinding a grove around them and snapping them. Some have an oops...drop them to break them..ha ha.
As I stated in the other thread you have to check the new stones to be sure they are flat. Some are bent up to .010". I lay it down on a plate and hinge it. When they get dirty I lay 100 grit sand paper on a flat surface and give it a couple of squirts of windex and rub the stone on it. Then when you use the stone...rotate it so you don't stone a curve into your part your stoning.

Item Quick View: 00579425

In Stock
Price: $15.51 ea.
Item Notes
MSDS Available
Sharpening Stones; Stone Material: Aluminum Oxide; Overall Width/Diameter (Inch): 1-3/4; Overall Length (Inch): 4-1/2; Overall Thickness (Inch): 1/4; Shape: Round Edge Slip; Grade: Medium MSC Part #:00579425 Brand:Norton Big Book Page #:1054 Mfr Part #:61463687150

Same one but cheaper:
Home / Abrasives / Files, Sticks & Stones / Stones / Sharpening Stones / #05111265 Print Email Page
Made in USA - Sharpening Stones Stone Material: Aluminum Oxide Overall Width/Diameter (Inch): 1-3/4
Price: $11.23 ea.

I also buy the rectangular bench stones and grind a 45 deg knife edge when i am doing big ways like a Centerless grinder and the round stone with finger groves one side rough and one side smooth. Many Blanchard Grinder shops use them. I have never had much luck using a hard Arkansas stone.

You have to be careful with a med grit Indian not to over stone, but as Matt can tell you I show everyone how to use their finger-nail to slide over the scraping to hoke / feel the burr and then stone and feel again. It is important to learn to stone too. So many things to learn how to do.
I will try to find the other stones and add them in another post. Rich

Enco 317-1615?

Pete F said:

Enco 317-1615?

Click to expand...

looks like it. plus it's cheaper. MSC I think owns Enco too...I should be able to get them to meet or beat the price. Thanks. Rich

Model #317-1615
Low Price: $7.31 ea
Availability: In Stock

The ones I got from Enco were model# 317-1616.

Their description says India Round Sharpening Stone. They have one edge that is round and the other is knife edge.

I will be ordering some in the next couple of days as i am going to take about 30 to the Norway and Swedish class, so I will probably buy about 50. I'll see if i can get a discount. I will buy from MSC though. I'll see if I can get a deal and let everyone know. Rich
PS: Matt ..on the Canode...I have some but it will be a mess putting it in a little bottle. If you can't get any other...i can, but only for last resort ok. lol Rich

Ok thanks guys, I'll get the thinner one (317-1615) as I don't do big things.

Pete F said:

Ok thanks guys, I'll get the thinner one (317-1615) as I don't do big things.

Click to expand...

Be careful as they break pretty easy. Does Enco have a wear-house in Australia?

Richard King said:

Be careful as they break pretty easy. Does Enco have a wear-house in Australia?

Click to expand...

So would you suggest buying the thicker one then, or just a couple of spares?

Regarding the other point, unfortunately Richard this is an area where we suffer from the small population and in particular the population density of the country. To help put it in perspective, Australia is around the same size as continental USA, but we have a population of just over 20 million IIRC. Nice if you want some time alone, and we have farms the size of European countries (literally), but it's not so nice if you want things that are considered somewhat specialised. We can get pretty much anything locally, but most suppliers just aren't interested in onesies/twosies. Want a hundred or a thousand stones, and they'll be happy to open an account and order that amount each month. The average hobbyist, ie somebody who just want a basic Chinese machine and cheap tooling, is catered for. Likewise industry is catered for. But the market for the guys with small shops or the serious hobbyist really isn't catered for. The market just isn't big enough to bother. It causes "challenges" at times

A long answer to your question, but the answer in short is Enco doesn't have a warehouse here, but it may also explain why you often see reference to Aussie members bringing things over from the US, especially via USPS, to make it cost effective.

Oh the other thing is, if something is available here off the shelf, a rule of thumb is to expect to pay around double what it would retail for in the US. Even though both things may originate in China. Welcome to Australian retailing and the concept "what the market can bare".

Pete

I will only mark it up 25%...ha ha.....seriously, if you need something that I can help you get, let me know. Rich

Do you have a copy of my DVD?

I sell them on Ebay or if anyone wants one send me a PM and I'll give you a deal.
Rich

Hey Richard thank you very much but I have a copy of your DVD and was just watching it the other night as a matter of fact (the wife and kids are away so I get control of the DVD for once. Ergh, the things we do for domestic harmony).

I can recommend Richard's video to anyone who may be interested in this field. Available through ebay. I especially liked the section on power flaking, which is something I had never seen explained before. I guess the ultimate is to get apprenticed and "do your time", but next best thing is to attend a class and get taught by those who have, and just hope a teeny bit of that wisdom somehow manages to rub off. But failing any of that, for those of us who can't attend a class, then I think studying a video is probably the next best thing, and much better than a book. It may come a distant third behind being taught first hand, but I think videos are a very good way to learn.

Pete

I like Norton medium India stone. Arkansas stones are too fine.

Here is how I flatten a stone that you may find is pretty ordinary...

Not uncommon for me to come across lots of different stones used for things like sharpening axes and knives and such... Usually they are pretty hollow and most are too coarse for scraping duty anyway...

But to flatten them I do this...

Get a piece of glass plate.... Glass plate really is not that flat and will bow like crazy if all you do is put it on something not flat... But anyway I use it as I had it on hand..

If the stone is really really hollow I have garnet grit as used for sandblasting for the first stage..

Mix it with hand washing detergent and rub around on the plate.. It will flatten the stone an an amazing rate of knots..

To proceed to a finer finish on the stone I use silicon carbide grit, and use it the same way after first washing the garnet off the glass... Bit of washing detergent with the silicon carbide grit and away you go...

To do this takes only a few minutes..

Sort of in the same direction, maybe I should start a new post, please let me know and or move this if it should be elsewhere. I'm looking for information on pull scrapping and pull scrapers in particular. I've only found one reference so far, what I'm after are information on length of handle, and the angle of the blade relative to the work piece and the handle. Any pictures or drawings would help!

I am signed up for the December 2017 course in the UK! Looking forward to it!!

Regards, Matthew.

Hello Matthew and you can google "Pull scraping practical machinist" and you will see a list of pull and hook scraping threads we have discussed over the years. Send me an email and I can forward you some pages out of a French and Swiss text book a former Swiss student sent me Just last week we talked about it in another thread and will try to link it here later. I am now figuring out the logistics of sending some straight-edges and my huge selection of tool there as I usually leave them home when I teach in Germany. I am sure you know I will be teaching 2 weeks prior to your class. Rich

This an old thread: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...scraping-and-inspection/pull-scraping-303305/

The other discussion was in the post about what to teach a rookie scraper. it's long but Jergen wrote about scraping near the bottom.


Pic of Puerto Rico student using a pull scraper.

RC99 said:

Here is how I flatten a stone that you may find is pretty ordinary...

Not uncommon for me to come across lots of different stones used for things like sharpening axes and knives and such... Usually they are pretty hollow and most are too coarse for scraping duty anyway...

But to flatten them I do this...

Get a piece of glass plate.... Glass plate really is not that flat and will bow like crazy if all you do is put it on something not flat... But anyway I use it as I had it on hand..

If the stone is really really hollow I have garnet grit as used for sandblasting for the first stage.. View attachment 109916

Mix it with hand washing detergent and rub around on the plate.. It will flatten the stone an an amazing rate of knots.. View attachment 109917 View attachment 109918

To proceed to a finer finish on the stone I use silicon carbide grit, and use it the same way after first washing the garnet off the glass... Bit of washing detergent with the silicon carbide grit and away you go... View attachment 109919

To do this takes only a few minutes.. View attachment 109920

Click to expand...

Hi All,

I have another method for truing up your stone:

I bought 3 Harbor Freight rectangular stones. They are fairly soft.
I use the 3 plate method to true up each of the stones by rubbing them
together in the 3 plate method.

Then my stone that needs help gets rotated into the 3 plate mix. I make sure to
true up my soft stones once a rotation so they remain true.

Paul

I do not even like a stone for the purpose, I prefer a "burr file", which does not get loaded up , and also will not cut down too far.

Simple to make, work well.

Maybe I am just ignorant, but they seem to be a good option.