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Scraping Tools listed in Tooling for sale

I have not listed in the For Sale section my lightweight 18” prism/SE/parallel/level there in a long time, but will probably do so soon. I have not listed on eBay either. But tools bought by folks here on PM will be discounted some compared to eBay prices.

The same is true of my broad soled 19 to 24 pound camelback straight that reaches under dovetails and other overhanging features.

Soon I will be offering a three-sided 45-60-75 hollow lightweight 18” prism to which handles can be added. I expect to test out my pattern for it this week.

And I am thinking about an 18” I-beam like SE that will be moderately heavy with a 45 deg angle on on sole and 30 on the other.

And then there is the 48” Featherweight pattern (it will look like my 36 but will be a foot longer) to make and cast as soon as can be accomplished.

I am am working daily to provide a line of improved cast iron scraping tools unmatched in quality, rigidity, and utility. Thank you all for your support.

Denis

Added: I personally select the raw materials, pack the sand moldsmelt the metal,, and pour each straight edge I put my name on.
 
Denis,

Thanks for all the thought, design and work represented in the castings you're offering. And for keeping the various straightedge options visible to the community.
 
I wanted to show my products to the group but Dennis added his info. So lets make it known there are several other companies offering. There are several options out there.

Kieth Rucker is making 6" and 12" camel backs, Gary Martin makes them so cheap I can't see why he is making them. PM Member Gary Cude makes them in Texas his email is [email protected]

Challenge Precision|Workholding|Angle Plates|Lapping Plates|Precision Manufacturing
CAST IRON STRAIGHT EDGES by Suburban Tool, Inc.

There is a company in Canada that Cash Masters said bought all of Busch Precisions patterns and a few folks have bought their parallel like John Saunders did from them.

Starrett True Stone Makes Granite Straight-edges to. Or you can buy Dur-a-Bar Pre cast Continuous Cast Iron Bar Stock Leader and Steel Alternative | Dura-Bar

Bash Precision in India has them too, but they only ship containers and not small orders.

One thing about my product line is the were designed by machine rebuilder tradesmen. My Dad started making Straight Edge castings in the 1950's. Here is the link to MY products. If your interested in anything, let me know and I'll give the PM membership a discount or free shipping.

Machine Rebuilding Tools, DVD, Book and Classes
 
Minor correction to Richard's note: I looked into buying a Busch casting a year ago- the patterns are now owned by a Chicago area guy who only casts on special order with very long lead times. But at least the patterns are still around...

Perhaps the Canadian company Richard is referring to is Coreprint Castings. They make a 24" long parallel and a right angle casting. The castings I bought from them needed heat treating.

It's pretty amazing to see how many folks are now making straight edge castings!

L7
 
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Thanks Stan...Cash was at the Busch Auction and he told me that.

Oh and one more thing. If you need a straight-edge (s) I have a few used ones too, but they are old and machined, aged and scraped, so the price goes up. I also have what I call a hardship clause. Which is if you really want to take a scraping class or need a straight-edge I will give it away after we discuss in private your issue. If your interested in Hosting a Class, Hosts are free. Contact me if you would like to know more about hosting a rebuilding class.
 
It's been my observation that many folks who set up to make these scraping tools seem to do so as hobby or at the very least, some kind of low priority side business. Or maybe it's just too costly to maintain any kind of inventory.

I don't know of anyone who has actually purchased a Gary Martin straight edge for several years. I inquired a few times and never heard back.

There was a YouTube guy in Texas called "Tool for Machines" or something like that. He had some camelback style cast and I think he sold a few. But when I inquired two years ago, he had none on hand and no intention of casting more.

I forget who it was, but someone was casting some camelback type tools using old Brown and Sharpe tools as patterns. I don't know what happened with that.


I think that back in the times when scraping was more common, the machine builders would just cast their own scraping masters. I have a few straight edges that were made by a machine rebuilding company in Los Angeles. I would estimate they are at least 50 years old. At one time I owned a Monarch branded camelback. I'm not sure if it was the same Monarch that made lathes, but I suspect it was.
 
Wes,
I think you hit the nail on the head: much less demand than in the past translates in either sporadic runs or companies dropping this line of products.
Gary Martin still casts a few straightedge and, I believe, he has a new camelback dovetail pattern, I don't remember if 36" or 48". Definitely, his designs are the exact opposite of Dennis's, in terms of weight.

I can speak about only Gary's 18" dovetail straightedge that I've scraped: the cast iron was very soft, but abrasive too (I had to resharpen the carbide blade on average two times for every pass). I had some issue of the straightedge moving between passes, but I should investigate and document this some more before saying anything.
His 18" weighs a few pounds more than Richard's HKA. But, on the other side, it has a wider bottom.

I agree that he is not very responsive. Probably, rather busy with casting and selling the various kits. For my understanding, he casts the straightedges and the squares in order to use the excess of material in the pour.

Paolo
 
Warren the host of the Vermont class had 2 18" angle camelbacks Gary Martin SE's and hell I think he said they were under $100.00 each. Hell I pay more then that for plus I have to pay for heat treat. Yes I agree that the Hobbyists have created a new market as many of the students in my classes are 6 to 1 Hobby people. I'm happy as hell they want to fix there machines. Also in the past 3 months I have had 3 large companies ask if I knew someone who can rebuild machines / scrapes. One of them is the company I will come out of semi retirement to start rebuilding for them.
 
I know Cash is actively scraping his machines continuously... outside of him and actual rebuilders I have no idea how many big companies out there are routinely rebuilding or just tightening up their equipment regularly. Its one of those things that will be interesting to see if its still being done in 20-30 years.
 
I find it interesting that Cash chooses to do the re-building in house. Wonder if this is due to size/ rarity of many of his bigger machines and cost of shipping, or control of quality?

L7
 
I find it interesting that Cash chooses to do the re-building in house. Wonder if this is due to size/ rarity of many of his bigger machines and cost of shipping, or control of quality?

L7

I'd bet that it is a combination of all the above. Moving a machine that has been bolted to the floor and carefully leveled is a huge pain and extra cost that he can avoid in house. Moreover, having the tooling and the facilities, it is considerably cheaper and more practical for him to do it in-house than sending out the machine, when the rebuilder has time to work on it (vs. when you can plan a downtime without negative effect on the production).

I guess that, with large machines, it is more the norm of the rebuilders coming to the machine, than the other way around, given the costs and risks associated with moving anything big and delicate. At that point, it is more economical, practical, and convenient having an internal crew doing the job in a downtime, rather than having to pay somebody external, given that his line of work is not too far from skills needed in rebuilding one of his machines.

Paolo
 
There was a YouTube guy in Texas called "Tool for Machines" or something like that. He had some camelback style cast and I think he sold a few. But when I inquired two years ago, he had none on hand and no intention of casting more.

I don't recall the context of that conversion, Wes, but I do get castings now and again. 18" Camelbacks are in stock, as well as large size Radius Turner castings. My intention is to have stock of all castings that I have patterns for.

All of us trying to provide castings are having a devil of a time getting anything from the foundries. Very long lead times are the norm. Very frustrating to have people inquire and of course wonder how long until I will have some on hand again and I have no answer, because I can't get a answer from the foundries. Larger customers ordering hundreds, if not thousands of castings are keeping our small orders at the very bottom of priority.

Rich can tell you that selling the castings may be profitable, but you ain't gonna get wealthy from doing it. Most of us do it not so much as a hobby, as you say, but out of giving back to the metal working trade and to try and help keep old machines in tip top shape.

Several years ago, straightedges were far less available than now. I bought the patterns for 18" and 36" Camelbacks from Craig Donges about 5 years ago, when he wanted out. I also got his other patterns as well (faceplates, radius turners, small shaper vise, etc.). The 36" Camelback pattern I got from Craig is made from a broken Brown and Sharpe that John Oder had sent up to Craig in Ohio.

The sales volume of straightedges and other castings are so low, you would be crazy to sink very much money into having a lot of inventory.

BTW, my YouTube channel is "Tools4Machines". You can also stay up with what I am doing on Instagram and Facebook, with the same name (Tools4Machines). Wes, I watch your YT channel and appreciate your sharing of the new-and-improved King-Way aligner as well as other handy shop tips, like how you dispose of old coolant and your troubleshooting of old electronics.

Cheers, Gary
 
I find it interesting that Cash chooses to do the re-building in house. Wonder if this is due to size/ rarity of many of his bigger machines and cost of shipping, or control of quality?

L7

I have a gut feeling Cash also just enjoys scraping... just a feeling. I can only imagine what its like working for a company where the owner is in the shit on the floor like that.
 
It's been my observation that many folks who set up to make these scraping tools seem to do so as hobby or at the very least, some kind of low priority side business. Or maybe it's just too costly to maintain any kind of inventory.

.


All of us trying to provide castings are having a devil of a time getting anything from the foundries. Very long lead times are the norm. Very frustrating to have people inquire and of course wonder how long until I will have some on hand again and I have no answer, because I can't get a answer from the foundries. Larger customers ordering hundreds, if not thousands of castings are keeping our small orders at the very bottom of priority.

Rich can tell you that selling the castings may be profitable, but you ain't gonna get wealthy from doing it. Most of us do it not so much as a hobby, as you say, but out of giving back to the metal working trade and to try and help keep old machines in tip top shape.

Cheers, Gary

The reason I went to casting my own SE’s was:

1) It was no fun having to wait until the commercial foundry was having a lull so that it was able to take on “odd jobs” like SE’s cast in small numbers.
2) My patterns are relatively delicate wood pieces. They have to be made to a high standard or they won’t pull from the mold. The commercial molders are used to pouring 300 to 3000 pound casting with patterns of similar proportions. They routinely drive heavy lags into the patterns, pound them with heavy hammers and pull them with a crane. I often got my patterns back after a five run with significant damage requiring time-consuming repair work.
3) Quality control was challenging. I rejected 30% of the castings as they had serious defects and many of the “keepers” required a lot of angle grinder work.
4) I never was able to fully understand why patterns did not always pull right or fill perfectly as it was a matter of driving 60 miles, dropping off my pattern and returning a few days later to inspect and pick up castings that might or might not be perfect. What happened in between drop off and pickup was a mystery.
5) Casting costs were out of my control. As the economic downturn turned into a growth phase costs went up as foundries could cherry pick.
6) I grossly underestimated the work involved and the learning curve associated with casting iron. YouTube is overrun by guys casting aluminum, bronze and brass. But there are few iron casters for a reason. Iron is tricky to learn to pour properly and the much higher temperatures associated with iron make furnace design an order of magnitude more difficult and fuel-furnaces have a very definitely limited life span. (The life span of commercial induction furnaces is limited too but not anywhere near as much as fossil fuel furnaces.)
7) I just wanted to do it... Crazy, I know. But, like any challenging puzzle, once pretty well worked out it is very satisfying to cast iron and have it shake out as a nearly perfect casting with sand falling off and the surface almost shiny. And having someone excited to get a fine casting (I routinely have people tell me that my castings are the best they have seen) that fills a need for them is very enjoyable.
8) I sure as Hell don’t make any appreciable money doing this. I cover my costs pretty much and at times am a bit ahead and at times behind. But, that is not the point. Anyone wanting to make a living selling straight edges I wish all good luck doing so. They are going to need it.

So, I hope to keep on selling enough castings to keep me and my equipment from getting rusty. My new hollow prism and core box are getting paint and final fettling today and tomorrow. The sand will be mulled in the next day or two and then I get to light up the newly-remodeled furnace and melt some iron. Ah, I love the smell of diesel in the morning... ;-)

Denis
 
Next time you start a thread Dennis I will be sure to add my 2 cents worth that's for sure. That is why I love Facebook I can control the posts on my site. King Way Scraping Consultants and Richard King Scraping Consultants. We have also been talking on You Tube Machinists and the Norway Machinist forum . As Gary said, it's a pain having an inventory I have close to $10,000.00 in castings 12", 18", 24", 36", 48" and 72" with and with-out angle camel-backs. I inherited my 36, 48, 60 and 72" patterns from my Dad. I had the 12", 18" and 24" patterns made. The last 12" Pattern was made on a 3 D printer. That is the new technology and I predict in 20 years cast iron castings will be obsolete as they will be 3 D printing cast Iron Straight-edges.
 
I think this has turned out to be a pretty good and informative thread, as Charles has said he doesn't want this to turn into another for sale forum. Please don't turn this thread into another pissing match now.

I think it is great to see so many different variations in scraping masters being cast.

Daryl
 
Paolo, Gary Martin has a pattern for a 52" long with dovetail straight edge. Saw pics of a machined casting- nice, but 125 lbs! For comparison the HKA 48" I scraped is 61 lbs. Use it regularly, but it's plenty heavy for this weak guy ;-)

L7
 
Paolo, Gary Martin has a pattern for a 52" long with dovetail straight edge. Saw pics of a machined casting- nice, but 125 lbs! For comparison the HKA 48" I scraped is 61 lbs. Use it regularly, but it's plenty heavy for this weak guy ;-)

L7


Yikes! That's a heavy one. I thought my 48" Busch was heavy at 90 lbs.
 








 
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