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Seeking "new" bearing advice for old machine

Britguy

Plastic
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Location
New Zealand
I have an Adcock & Shipley horizontal mill which I have just acquired, and which I have stripped down for total rebuild/paint etc. Long story short, I knew that it had a “noise” issue, as the seller volunteered this when I rang him. I haven’t heard the machine running, but bought it unseen. To get it into my workshop, I had to remover the saddle, and upon doing so, decided to do a complete strip down etc.

I have located what I’m sure is the “noise”, as when I took the belts off, and tried the pulley’s by hand, the middle stack (the one which is slide adjustable at the rear of machine) seemed almost seized. On further inspection, the two bearings on the shaft had dried grease that resembled varnish. After cleaning the bearings still seem like they may have seen better days. I’m not sure how to fully check if they are okay, or actually need replacing, but maybe I’ll air on the side of caution.
The bearings are open race, and the shaft assembly is such that it has a grease nipple.
I am unsure whether or not to stick with open race, or, to opt for sealed bearings. The top speed of the shaft is 2500rpm (shaft size is 40mm, outer dia is 80mm). The machine is maybe 60 years of age, and I am unsure whether or not bearings have advanced sufficiently in that time as to warrant a change, or, should I stick with original spec?
I’m also now, going through ALL of the bearings on the machine, as I want to bring the Mill back to it’s former glory, and give it a new lease of life.
 
... just to add, other than the bearing issue, the machine has little/no signs of wear. The ways are in great shape, and the machine was used in a university (no industrial or school-kid abuse), so I feel I have something worth saving! ;-)If anyone is interested, I can post pics of before/after rebuild.
 
... just to add, other than the bearing issue, the machine has little/no signs of wear. The ways are in great shape, and the machine was used in a university (no industrial or school-kid abuse), so I feel I have something worth saving! ;-)If anyone is interested, I can post pics of before/after rebuild.

Well. those specific bearings didn't QUITE make the entire 60 years, did they?

But the failure seems to be down to aged grease.

And grease only meets its OEM spec for around 4 to 9 years, regardless.

Doesn't "hard fail" at that point, but that's what the experts seem to agree as over the hill and on the downslope TOWARD failure. Kluber's main claim to premium price that it lasts longer than most others, not that it is twice as slippery.

Now.. that applies to grease inside sealed bearings as well.

Logically, the more useful course is to arrange for access to see to more frequent renewal.

Pragmatically, if the OEM bearings lasted "most of" 60 years, you are probably "worry free" with average sealed units.

Unless you expect to be running this mill beyond 25 years from the day they are installed.

So the answer to "which bearings" might seem irrelevant, but even so:

"How old are you, right now?" And what future. such a mill, in New Zealand of 20 years hence?

My age, stock sealed units would at least live as long as I am likely to give a damn, and have better odds than open-cage if sharpish swarf is at also at large.

YMMV

:D
 
Well. those specific bearings didn't QUITE make the entire 60 years, did they?

But the failure seems to be down to aged grease.

And grease only meets its OEM spec for around 4 to 9 years, regardless.

Doesn't "hard fail" at that point, but that's what the experts seem to agree as over the hill and on the downslope TOWARD failure. Kluber's main claim to premium price that it lasts longer than most others, not that it is twice as slippery.

Now.. that applies to grease inside sealed bearings as well.

Logically, the more useful course is to arrange for access to see to more frequent renewal.

Pragmatically, if the OEM bearings lasted "most of" 60 years, you are probably "worry free" with average sealed units.

Unless you expect to be running this mill beyond 25 years from the day they are installed.

So the answer to "which bearings" might seem irrelevant, but even so:

"How old are you, right now?"

:D

LOL... I don't try to think like that these days, if that gives you a clue. However, I do like the thought of leaving something after I'm gone!!!
 
LOL... I don't try to think like that these days, if that gives you a clue. However, I do like the thought of leaving something after I'm gone!!!

These are probably not going to be your toughest decision, but the reality is that 20 years out, what is not long-since CNC will probably HAVE to be for lack of anyone who still knows what to DO with an(y) all-manual machine-tool, even if it were still in as-new condition.

Mind.. we have been predicting that for nearly fifty years, already, but still.

It has also gradually been coming true as well - computers, AI, robots and networking even pushing the human further and further away from tooling, workholding as loader or operator, or programmer, with even maintenance & diagnostics being remoted from the shop floor over wire and wireless.

It has happened before. I was on-deck as changing routing of a private leased circuit for a major international bank went from coordinated multiple hands with punch-down tools moving physical Copper wire to my guy logging in to a computerized switch and rearranging time slots on fibre optics thousands of miles away from his desk.

And then it happened all over again with packets carrying the traffic, and even fewer staff were needed to make routing changes.

Planing, design, manufacture, and supply chain automation and integration are rather far along, already. Just not - yet - for "everybody" visible.
 
What are the specs of the old bearing If it just says 6208 I would buy a SKF or ********* 6208 bearing Unsealed or with steal labirinth A rubber seal generates heat
A horizontal machine is not worth that much
I would never rebuild one You end up with a beautiful 500USD machine which you spend a 1000USD on
Eighter find a vertical head for it if one excists or find a vertical machine to rebuild

Peter
 
I have a different opinion than Peter. I grew up with a small horizontal in the basement and frequently still use it. If a good condition Adcock and Shipley 1ES were nearby and reasonably priced, I’d buy it.

L7
 
What are the specs of the old bearing If it just says 6208 I would buy a SKF or ********* 6208 bearing Unsealed or with steal labirinth A rubber seal generates heat
A horizontal machine is not worth that much
I would never rebuild one You end up with a beautiful 500USD machine which you spend a 1000USD on
Eighter find a vertical head for it if one excists or find a vertical machine to rebuild

Peter

I already have a Bridgeport (clone). I wanted this horizontal for a few specific ongoing jobs. I also get a bit of a kick from bringing new life into well engineered older machinery. I appreciate how well they were made, and also when things were made "locally" instead of in Asia. I have had a few old British machines in my time, and even a simple floor standing pillar drill was a two-man operation to move around. Unlike the many junk Chinese things we see nowadays, which have poor lightweight castings, tolerances in many cases that can be measured by a rule, as opposed to a micrometer, and well, there's a certain pride, loyalty, call it what you like, but in knowing that you are extending the life of a machine that was built by craftspeople who are probably long gone now. Call me old fashioned, but I think it's worth it.
 
These are probably not going to be your toughest decision, but the reality is that 20 years out, what is not long-since CNC will probably HAVE to be for lack of anyone who still knows what to DO with an(y) all-manual machine-tool, even if it were still in as-new condition.

Mind.. we have been predicting that for nearly fifty years, already, but still.

It has also gradually been coming true as well - computers, AI, robots and networking even pushing the human further and further away from tooling, workholding as loader or operator, or programmer, with even maintenance & diagnostics being remoted from the shop floor over wire and wireless.

It has happened before. I was on-deck as changing routing of a private leased circuit for a major international bank went from coordinated multiple hands with punch-down tools moving physical Copper wire to my guy logging in to a computerized switch and rearranging time slots on fibre optics thousands of miles away from his desk.

And then it happened all over again with packets carrying the traffic, and even fewer staff were needed to make routing changes.

Planing, design, manufacture, and supply chain automation and integration are rather far along, already. Just not - yet - for "everybody" visible.

I understand this, however, I think that there will always be some room for older technology, and especially simple set-ups on basic low-tech machines. At least if one of these goes "wrong", you dont have to have a degree in electronics to put things right again. Sometimes simple is best.
 
I have a different opinion than Peter. I grew up with a small horizontal in the basement and frequently still use it. If a good condition Adcock and Shipley 1ES were nearby and reasonably priced, I’d buy it.

L7


If its a hobby restoring old machines No problem with that But do not expect to ad value to the machine

Peter
 
If you are looking for bearings to run a spindle at relatively low speed in comparison to the bearing limits, you want to get the clearance right. If the bearing was originally open and the grease had an exit path so old grease will push out when new grease enters, I'd keep it that way. An ABEC 3 with standard or even C2 clearance and a stamped steel cage would be my choice. I like precision phenolic or brass machined cage bearings when I can find them cheap but they tend to be very expensive unless NOS. Most of the milling machines I've seen don't run high precision though. An SKF Explorer is an ABEC 3 and Natchi, NTN, etc make similar bearings. I don't see many ********* in ABEC 3 but their bearings might be technically that anyway. You do not want C3 or JEM bearings so you need to make sure a bearing supplier doesn't give you those. While there is some overlap in clearance grades, I use C3 mainly in electric motors that heat up and are belt drive. Direct drive or spindle bearings get tighter clearance and a bearing with high enough precision to handle the rpms with that clearance, especially in a hobby situation. If a machine is left on all day, the bearings probably heat and tighten the clearance but that doesn't happen in a hobby world. Dave
 








 
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