set up for scraping South Bend 10K lathe
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  1. #1
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    Default set up for scraping South Bend 10K lathe

    I'm getting set up to start reconditioning a South Bend 10K lathe (light 10"). It will eventually be mounted on a workbench, but that would be a very awkward for scraping the ways. Since the lathe came with two SB cast iron legs (which I will eventually sell), my first thought was to bolt the bed to the legs and then carefully bolt the legs to the concrete floor (shimmed and leveled with a precision level, of course). This would allow me to scrape from both sides and at a relatively convenient height.

    However, I then remembered Richard King's scraping class in Oakland a couple years ago where he told us about the importance of three-point support. Would it be better to mount the lathe bed at a convenient height on a narrow but solid wooden bench (still bolted to the concrete floor) with only the headstock end of the lathe bolted down and the tailstock end "floating" on a single centered support block?

    Thanks,
    Douglas

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    Look at the tail stock end foot. The upper casting of the foot is attached to the bed and is fitted with a rocker shaft whose axis is parallel to the bed. The lower casting shares the shaft and has a pair of setscrews you can adjust to allow the bed to take its own relaxed position. Thus the feet can be mounted on a crooked (slightly) bench.

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    We just had this discussion a few threads ago...I wasn't real excited scraping the machine off where it will eventually be sitting. Where did you take the classin Oakland? What shop? PM me your name so i can recall you and your technique. i still have a lot of pictures of the class and can let everyone know who is who.

    I would recommend you have the bed planed or ground as it is much easier on those double V machines as they are a real pain to get parallel. Have you checked the bed? How bad is it? I am also not a big fan of bolting small machines to the floor. Take some pictures and give us some more info. Rich

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    yeah the king is on the money . the spring-back in a small lathe bed from bolting it to a floor would make it hard to make straight and para. good luck , post pics

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    I found Doug on my list of students...lol...now I wish I had a photo memory....lol The wood benches I have seen them bolted to usually have a steel plate bolted to them. That light bed would be best bolted to the bench if it's the small bed I am thinking of. Send some pictures please.

    Those classes we had on the bay were something, I learned a lot about Blacksmithing while the students to scrape :-) ....We had them in one shop of a famous blacksmith, Michael Bondi Home who was making new fences for the city of San Fran and artwork for movie-stars...then the last one we had in 2013, it was in another famous blacksmith shop James Austin who makes throwing axes..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaPR-us9kSU. I have a picture of him in my profile pic's.

    We will be having another one in Oakland in June or July 2015..or DH the host and I are starting to plan.

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    Ideally you would Scrape and align the lathe in the same mounting configuration as it will see when in use.

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    Forrest and Richard: Thank you for the replies. Forrest, yes I do have at least some idea of what I'm getting into. I have scrapped several straight edges (an 18" from Martin Models, a 32" from Stephen Thomas, and a narrow 36" B&S), the tailstock to my 9" SB, and the cross slide kit with T-slots from MLA - all by hand. I have a narrow 3' camelback, an 18x24 granite plate and have the Connelly book to help me proceed in a logical manner. I was also aware of the adjustment in the tailstock bed support to adjust for twist, but my concerns were (1) whether it was best to bolt both ends down solidly and then to take the twist out of the bed with a precision level and shims (and the built in adjustment), or (2) to bolt down and level the headstock end with a precision level and to let the tailstock end "float" with no stress on it while measuring and scraping.

    Richard, I also wondered whether the cast iron legs would tend to spring the bed convex or concave which is one reason why I plan to mount this lathe on a bench for use. I appreciate why you are not a fan of this kind of mounting and given your insight will not use the CI legs as supports while scraping.

    Given the holidays it will probably take me a couple of weeks to get set up and to post pictures.

    Richard, I attended the class you held in Richmond CA in the fall of 2011. I worked on a 18" straight edge and had made my own scrapers (rosewood turned handles with brazed carbide tips) - I worked mostly with hand scrapers during the class because I did not envisage being able to buy a Biax.

    Douglas

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete F View Post
    Ideally you would Scrape and align the lathe in the same mounting configuration as it will see when in use.
    Pete: as I mentioned in my initial post, the lathe will be mounted on bench for use. It will only be accessible from one side and would take a much more agile person than me to be able to scrape all the necessary surfaces. Therefore I need to mount the bed on a support that is (1) accessible from both sides and (2) a convenient height. It would be nice to do as you suggest but it is not practical.

    Douglas

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    If your going to scrape the bed, then start with the tail-Stock ways and match fit the tails stock base to it and then use it with mag base and indicator to indicate the saddle ways and back under bed way to get everything parallel to the TS ways. I was also thinking you should epoxy and screw the plate onto the bench. The epoxy will fill in any gaps and make it solid. Remember the TS ways on both ends are like new and scrape it down straight. Plus scrape the vee's on each side the same number of cuts to keep the geometry the same. That was the first class we had out there I think at Bondi's shop right? It sounds like you got your monies worth taken the class. :-) Rich

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    I looked up this thread tonight for another thread and while looking at the bench I noticed Phil used the original legs to make his table with shelf. That's a great was to do it. Rich
    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...the-ks-267282/

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    Richard,

    Thanks for your two additional posts. I was planning on doing something similar to what Phil did for the benchtop, although I will be using a 1.75" beach rather than 1.5" maple - I find that if I'm very careful in selecting 2"rough lumber, I can first joint and then plane the boards to 1.75". Also, I will use 1.75" x 2.75" beach to make trestle legs rather than using the CI ones from South Bend. A trestle base can support the countershaft without the risk of twist being introduced by an off-center load. If properly made with mortise and tenon joints, this kind of bench is extremely stable and is based on a traditional woodworking bench design. The attached photo shows one I made out of mahogany and maple for my wife two years ago - I have a bigger one in my shop of maple that I made 35 years ago and have used ever since.
    susans-bench.jpg

    Douglas

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    Quote Originally Posted by dsymes View Post
    Richard,

    Thanks for your two additional posts. I was planning on doing something similar to what Phil did for the benchtop, although I will be using a 1.75" beach rather than 1.5" maple - I find that if I'm very careful in selecting 2"rough lumber, I can first joint and then plane the boards to 1.75". Also, I will use 1.75" x 2.75" beach to make trestle legs rather than using the CI ones from South Bend. A trestle base can support the countershaft without the risk of twist being introduced by an off-center load. If properly made with mortise and tenon joints, this kind of bench is extremely stable and is based on a traditional woodworking bench design. The attached photo shows one I made out of mahogany and maple for my wife two years ago - I have a bigger one in my shop of maple that I made 35 years ago and have used ever since.
    susans-bench.jpg

    Douglas
    Looks nice, but wouldn't a diagonal support strengthen the frame when made out of wood? My objection to scraping the bed on another place is my concern to get it back on the same gravity plane when your done. Your way and probably Demons way of scraping it on the floor on 3 points should work but I can be a bit stubborn sometimes (cough, cough) when I see someone changing something that has worked for a hundred years. When I scrape I have been accused as being a perfectionist as I want to get it better then it needs to be. I guess it goes back to my Dad's guarantee we gave our customers. "The machine will be better then new when we are done scraping it" If someone asked me to scrape the bed....I would try to convince them to get t planed or ground first as if it is worn over .005" scraping it would be a break even on time and labor. That's what I teach if it is off more the .005" machine or grind it. This has some exception's to that rule...Money..lol..time and if there are machine close by to do it. 2 1/2 days to Christmas. :-) Rich

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    This lathe will be mounted on a bench that is next to a wall - i.e., only accessible from one side. To be able to scrape all surfaces "straight down" without contorting myself into a pretzel and to have confidence that I am removing approximately the same amount of metal evenly from each surface seem to me to be strong arguments for a different support for scraping, at a convenient height and accessible from all sides. I'm too old and stiff to crawl around on top of a lathe bench like a trained (or untrained!) monkey.

    Thanks again for all your support.

    Douglas


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