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Sidney Lathe, Chuck Removal

Rust Farmer

Plastic
Joined
Dec 31, 2018
Hi All,
This is my first post in Practical Machinist. I have an old Sidney Lathe that I'm working on rebuilding. I would like to remove the chuck from the spindle to clean it up and also get it out of my way so I can paint the machine. I have loosened the four socket-head cap screws on the chuck, but can not get the chuck to let goo of the spindle.
Can someone tell me how these chucks are connected to the spindle?
IMG_2422.jpg
Thank you
 
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While others are better at recognizing the model of a lathe by looking at it, I am not. My basic recommendation is to look at the name plate for the lathe to get an idea of what model lathe you have. You can then use this information to look up the lathe's info on lathes.co.uk or vintage machinery.
To answer your question, those bolts are most likely holding the chuck to the backing plate. I could attempt to describe a threaded spindle vs american long taper (L00, L0, L1, etc) vs camlock vs etc etc, but I think you would have better luck looking it up via google images to get an idea of what each of them look like. That will also give you an idea of how to take the chuck off.
 
Rustfarmer,that looks a big lathe..........the chuck will weigh 1/4 ton or more.......put a long bar thru the spindle so if the chuck falls it wont smash the bed,or crush you......another method is to extend the tailstock barrel thru the chuck and tighten the jaws onto the barrel......this keeps the chuck aligned so it doesnt jam cockeyed.
 
I would spin the spindle and look on the OD of the chuck for a threaded hole where you can screw in a eyebolt and hook that to a crane or engine lifter. Then I would have a friend help one in front and one behind the lathe. Then with an oak 2 x 4 at least 8' long and pry the chuck off. If you could take a picture of the side of the chuck where it connects to the spindle will help us, but would expect you can pry it off. You may want to spray nut buster penetrating oil between there a few days before. If that doesn't do it make up some screw jacks out of some 1" bolts and nuts. put 4 to of then behind the chuck and headstock at 10 - 2- 4- 6 - 8 and carefully tighten them evenly and press it off. May have to take a few days of tightening and not expect it to come off right away. Another tip if you squirt in the Penetrating oil tap the chuck with a brass or lead hammer so the oil can penetrate with the vibration.
 
Strongly recommend you do not take it off AT ALL just yet. You have research to do first. See if you can get with the PO and FIND THE MISSING JAWS! As-is, it can be used as faceplate, so put those bolts back in, torque them evenly. Go by their size to determine how much, but do not over-tighten and bust any.

Then do something else until you have confirmed what the spindle nose is. Sidney's sort-of-proprietary thread & register, one suspects?

The photos needed are of the "neck" area where spindle exits HS casting and meets the backside of the chuck.

We'll be able to tell if it is L-series long-taper, vs threaded.

D1-(n), or A-(n) standard short tapers are less likely, but will also be apparent.

You do NOT want to be beating nor prying on any of those! It isn't a wood lathe nor a South Bent! IF, repeat IF, it is threaded and "force must be applied"?

There is significant preparation to be done FIRST so you do not trash other components.

Meanwhile ..surely you can "paint" with the chuck in-place? Or just defer painting in that area.

Do your research. Plan ahead. It will save you time for-sure, grief and money, usually.
 
Rust Farmer,

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After reviewing Bob's comments photo's from UK Lathes info on Sidney Lathes it does appear tat machine is cam locked. Do you have the operators manuals? John O on here has a huge library of machine manuals and catalogs and if you can give him the model and serial number he can probably help you. If your not familiar with what that is Google Cam-lock lathe spindle and there are several photos and descriptions. A photo of that area will help us too.
 
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Here find some spindle noes designs..not all are shown.
https://www.smalltools.com/lathe-spindle-nose-identification-chart/

I read some place that cam lock has been used from the 1930s. But Im not sure if that was a valid source of information..IF true then likely/perhaps before that in non-public application. I saw some designs that were dated 1894 that looked like Cam lock but not having that name.
So IMHO best to wait a bit on taking off the chuck. If threaded it may be very tight so some tricks are used for that..I know some of the tricks but I am not a lathe guy so best wait for one to reply. (yes I have ran lathes aplenty but just have not studied them)

You can paint around the chuck for a time...

*Perhaps some PM guys could tell of the earliest cam lock they know of. Perhaps some cam lock ideas came before that name was coined.
spindle nose types
Lathe Spindle Nose and Backplate Fittings
 
Here A Sidney 25" having a 3 3/4-4 threaded nose...
http://www.vannattabros.com/10-1/sid13.jpg

Yet I thought I read that some 25s had a 5" spindle nose.

other photos of same lathe:
Sidney Tool Co.

Mentioned:
The D1 series chucks are more difficult in the small sizes. These are the chucks that have cam pins sticking out the back, sometimes called Cam-Lock chucks.

Close up of this lathe nose
http://www.vannattabros.com/2009-4/sidv14.jpg

here a 24" with a D-1-8 nose
Lathes: 24" X 132" Used Sidney Engine Lathe

a 30" threaded
3 x 234 (19'6) SIDNEY ... LATHE 2-1/4 SPINDLE HOLE For sale call Industrial Machinery at 614-464-4376 for all your new and used lathes and machine tool needs.
 
A photo of the area between chuck and head stock would be useful

Notched Ring nut? L type

Six female square sockets in an OD? D type

Neither of the above - threaded or PROPRIETARY spindle nose - Monarch had such as of 1929

Sid had PROPRIETARY concurrent with threaded in 1930. The PROPRIETARY had a ring nut but instead of NOTCHES it has pin holes for a pin style hook spanner. The chuck fitted a long male taper, but I do not know if it was keyed like the later L Type

Sid's threaded at the time had both MALE THREADS and cylindrical spigot for sitting chuck on prior to trying to screw it on.

Sids had a tag on head stock with a SHOP NUMBER. Maybe yours is still there. Thumbnail is example - was on a 25" that went to iron heaven long ago
 

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After reading all the feedback from my original post and taking a second closer look at my lathe, it looks like the chuck is threaded on the spindle. I can see what looks like V-threads between the collar and the head-stock. I believe the four socket-head cap-screws are for keeping the chuck from spinning off of the spindle. I also believe that the chuck is really stuck on the spindle. I sprayed penetrating oil in every crack I could find on and around the chuck.
I looked over the whole lathe and could not find an identification tag with model number and serial number on it. The chuck is 18" in diameter, it looks like maximum swing is 24" and you could put 84" between centers. I included a few more pictures of the machine hoping someone could provide me more information on the lathe.
Thank you for the feedback.
IMG_2426.JPGIMG_2430.JPG
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You need to post that/those photo(s) just as was done in your opening post.

The four bolts attach the chuck to the BACKPLATE that screws on spindle

ON EDIT - add some scans from a brochure with a penciled in date of 12/32. Possibly yours is similar


After reading all the feedback from my original post and taking a second closer look at my lathe, it looks like the chuck is threaded on the spindle. I can see what looks like V-threads between the collar and the head-stock. I believe the four socket-head cap-screws are for keeping the chuck from spinning off of the spindle. I also believe that the chuck is really stuck on the spindle. I sprayed penetrating oil in every crack I could find on and around the chuck.
I looked over the whole lathe and could not find an identification tag with model number and serial number on it. The chuck is 18" in diameter, it looks like maximum swing is 24" and you could put 84" between centers. I included few more pictures hoping someone could provide me more information on the lathe.
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Richard,
It looks like the chuck is threaded onto the spindle. I posted some more pictures showing the collar behind the chuck.
On another note: Are you the Richard King that invented the King-Way measuring Instrument?
 
After reading all the feedback from my original post and taking a second closer look at my lathe, it looks like the chuck is threaded on the spindle. I can see what looks like V-threads between the collar and the head-stock. I believe the four socket-head cap-screws are for keeping the chuck from spinning off of the spindle. I also believe that the chuck is really stuck on the spindle. I sprayed penetrating oil in every crack I could find on and around the chuck.
I looked over the whole lathe and could not find an identification tag with model number and serial number on it. The chuck is 18" in diameter, it looks like maximum swing is 24" and you could put 84" between centers. I included a few more pictures of the machine hoping someone could provide me more information on the lathe.
Thank you for the feedback.
View attachment 245798View attachment 245799
View attachment 245786

Meah.. I'd work and work HARD to rebuild that chuck right where it sits. You can't make much USE of anything else.

Here's your challenge: You have a low and slow RPM draft hoss, not a racehorse.

T'ween centers is easy.

You CAN adapt to 5C, 2J, Rubberflex or ER family of collets by spindle-bore mount or plate-mount or "nose closer" not drawtube closer. If No Joy as to spindle bore taper mount? Just grip the body in the 4-Jaw, dial it in. Shim if you must. Mind it ain't tilted.

You can hog serious metal with HSS, Cobalts, even high Carbon steel, brazed Carbides, and rather a lot of "modern" inserted carbides.

But you just do NOT have a lot of top-end RPM to apply to small-diameter turning nor polishing.

Don't fight that. Costs are not even close to "reasonable" and the carriage "feel" and the goods atop it are all too heavy to do it "often" with comfort.

Just add a smaller lighter, shorter higher speed lathe if/as/when you NEED such. Or even a supplementary spindle.

See "Globe milling attachment" on Tony's lathes.co.uk website for inspiration.

Globe Milling and Dividing Attachments

There have been others. Can't just go BUY one, but you could borrow an idea or two.

2CW
 
Thanks for sharing all the links for the Sidney lathes. I'm guessing that my lathe was built in the very early 40's or late 1930's. I can't find any model or serial number anywhere on the machine so it's a guess on the age.
I'll keep working on it till I can make some chips.
 
A name on the chuck..a photo of chuck front, bolt circle of the bolts at the chuck face..
I sure agree with therm except for paint why take it off?

I have a threaded nose lathe out in the shop that I could not get the chuck off..I left it out in cold storage for the winter and in the spring the chuck almost fell off.

so yes knowing how it comes off and then knowing it is secure could be important..
 
Thanks for sharing all the links for the Sidney lathes. I'm guessing that my lathe was built in the very early 40's or late 1930's. I can't find any model or serial number anywhere on the machine so it's a guess on the age.
I'll keep working on it till I can make some chips.

It can do that. "No scroll involved".

Keep in mind that a 4-Jaw doesn't "really" insist that any two jaws, their guide tracks nor actuating screws be identical. It relies on your eye and a DTI to center even the oddest of shapes.

Rebuildable they are, even in situ, and it is a road well-traveled on LARGE ones.

In extremis, a smaller, healthier, chuck is just bolted to the old body and chips can be made. I kid you not. Put 'er to work. Take other decisions, later.
 








 
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