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  1. #41
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    In my PROFESSIONAL opinion you would be insane to put it back together with out scraping some lubrication pockets on the worn smooth ways. You can call me and I can help you learn how to scrape some pockets,, Email me at [email protected] and I'll send you some info.

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    Thanks Richard,

    That is a very generous offer. I really appreciate your help. I will send you an email right away. I did find a local guy who can do it but im still waiting on a price.

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    Oil scalps on the long travel table would not take much time, *be sure he knows it is just oil retaining scalps and not a scrap-in-true job.

    Good to wait for Richards advice. I have ideas about it but better to listen to Richard.

    That machine is worth a full scrap job.. likely be comparable(better than most) to a top quality new machine with a actual scrape job. Hard to find such a machine today... with having oil scraped iron ways.

    I have ran brand new ball and roller way machines and think they don't run as smooth as a oiled way scraped machine with iron or plastic ways. Plastic ways are fine they just don't take as much abuse and poor maintenance. Ball way machine are rarely maintained properly..easy pull long-travel ball or roller tables should come off every year for a cleaning.

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  5. #44
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    Just say cut and flake only for oil pockets, stone the surface and oil grove edges afterwards, if your short of cash. That should only be a few hours work. If he does a rescrape for accuracy of base, saddle, table and then grind the chuck. You looking at 30 to 50 hours if he knows what he is doing. Add another 15 hours for the column. Probably not worth it for a hobby machinist. Oh and if he rescrapes the table take off the mag chuck and scrape the top of table just to break it up as under there it is work hardended from the rust and it will help relax the iron. If he doesn't do that and scrapes the table and then you grind the table it will warp a bit and he will need to touch the bottom up a bit. Be sure he or you use a lot of coolant when you grind the table and chuck. I would also only have him 1/2 moon the unexposed to the air parts and scrape square cut the exposed. 1/2 moon flaking using the regular biax blade cuts about .002" deep and scraping usually is from .0005" max depth. Flaking the exposed to air on any machine can cause grit or chips to enter the way system. If he has any questions have him call me. 1 651-338-8141 Your welcome!

    PS: Most important is to blow out the oil passages and stone the scrape marks, then wipe everything with your hands so you feel the dirt before assembly.

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  7. #45
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    I emailed stang and mailed him a dvd today. So he should be able to do it himself soon.

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    I got your email, cant wait for the DVD I'm sure it will be a huge help. I did find a guy locally who came recommended from several machine shops. He said he normally wont take on small jobs like this but he would fit me in. He said if I bring him the parts he can do a scrape job and fix a few things for $800.00 CAD. This will get me up and running. He said the table may be warped a bit due to the age and its current condition. If things are a bit out he said he can help me out. I sent him a link to this thread and he took the time to read it and answer all my questions.

    This way the machine will get proper lubrication and be a bit better of so I can continue working. At the same time I don't want to waste Richards generous offer. My intention is to study his materials and practice until I am happy with my results. Then I will take the machine down and do a complete scrape job to get it as good as possible.

    I mentioned putting the machine back together with no scraping and everyone felt that was foolish. I read you loud and clear. I also want to keep progressing on my project. I don't want to rush and do a bad job scraping it myself. This seems like a good compromise. Let me know what you guys think of this plan. This way I can learn how to scrape properly at my own pace and give the machine a proper upgrade when I'm ready but not further damage it in the mean time.

    The gentleman I spoke with over the phone who will be overseeing the interim scrape job seemed very knowledgeable and helpful. I don't think he is steering me wrong. Based on what I have learned so far his price seems fair. He told me he would usually charge $2500 for something like this.

  9. #47
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    There is a huge difference in You scraping new oil pockets in the ways then scraping for precision as you will need straight-edges, alignment tools, know how to support the table when scraping it. I would not advise you to do it with straightedges unless your prepared to buy a minimum of $1000.00 and if you wanted to get into it, spend $5000.00 and then your guessing trial and error rebuilding. You may want to just hire they local guy this time and see if you can go watch him and he may teach you some tricks and he may ned a helper sooner then later. :-)

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    Thanks for the info. I like the idea of using this guy for now. I will still read up and practice so I can do this in the future. I will see if he will let me work with him or divulge any tips and tricks. I sent you an email back earlier today. I did get the grinder apart a little more today. I can get a good look at everything now. There is a bunch of parts left over from the auto function. I am thinking of gutting out all the non essential parts and blanking off the areas that allow debris to enter. I intend to use the machine as manual only. I will add an oiler for any areas that need it and just clean it up in general. I will likely repaint it as well. There were some areas where the old paint got into that i will clean up as well so there is no paint in the mating surfaces.

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    Here are some pics of the machine now.
    20190719_192647.jpg20190719_192655.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20190719_192647.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stang Bladeworks View Post
    I can get a good look at everything now. There is a bunch of parts left over from the auto function. I am thinking of gutting out all the non essential parts and blanking off the areas that allow debris to enter. I intend to use the machine as manual only.
    Now that you have it opened up, I suggest you try and understand what's wrong with the auto function and fix it. In my experience there is typically one small thing broken or jammed or worn out which can easily be repaired, after which the auto function will work correctly.

    If you are going to be shaping/grinding knife blades you'll be very grateful to have an automatic cross and down feed system. Cranking a grinder is fun for a few minutes but that fades after a few hours.

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    I plan to keep all the parts and troubleshoot the auto function down the road. I will likely keep it manual for now and maybe if I get a full scrape job done I will also get the auto working. For now it seems some stuff is missing and I'm starting to run out of funds. My main goal is to get the machine functional for now to a point where it is accurate enough for my uses and not damaging itself as I use it. I have no doubt that the auto will be a huge improvement I guess for now Ill keep cranking away. I could probably use the exercise…

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    I wanted to thank everyone who has taken the time to help me out with this. I have learned a lot already and I'm sure this is only the beginning. Richard, you have been especially helpful and I am very grateful that you taken the time to explain things to me and I am eager to review the information on scraping you have provided. I sincerely hope I am able to help people out down the road just like you have all helped me out. I will continue to post progress pics as I finish this up and I am open to any feedback or comments that you may have.

    I wasn't sure how people on here would react to someone new to this, like myself and you have all been incredibly helpful.

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  18. #53
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    Ok, i am continuing my tear down. I need to slide the gear in my pictures forward to allow me to remove the shaft. It looks like there is a tepered pin driven through. I have lightly tapped on the smaller end to attemp to dislodge it. It has not moved. Is there a technique to this? Maybe its not even a pin. It seems like it must be or they would have never got it in to begin with. It may be locating holes for a spanner wrench as well. This machine seems to have a few spanner wrench fittings. Any ideas or advice are greatly appreciated. Thanks.20190721_095141.jpg20190721_095158.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stang Bladeworks View Post
    I wanted to thank everyone who has taken the time to help me out with this. I have learned a lot already and I'm sure this is only the beginning. Richard, you have been especially helpful and I am very grateful that you taken the time to explain things to me and I am eager to review the information on scraping you have provided. I sincerely hope I am able to help people out down the road just like you have all helped me out. I will continue to post progress pics as I finish this up and I am open to any feedback or comments that you may have.

    I wasn't sure how people on here would react to someone new to this, like myself and you have all been incredibly helpful.
    You did help. I emailed Richard with the exact same issue with a surface grinder (Boyar Schultz 6x18) I bought at an auction. In my excitement of finally getting a surface grinder, I completely tore it down, replaced all bearings, lead screws, bead blasted everything and repainted it. I did this knowing the ways needed attention assuming I'd work that out. I had no idea what it would cost to get it scraped in. Richard gave me some good advice and tried to help but I'm way out of my league and I basically decided to put it back together as is and see what happens. After reading this thread I'm going to find a way to at least flake it for oil retention. I want to learn to scrape but that's going to take some planning due to the cost of straight edges and surface plates etc.

    Richard,
    I see you supplied information on how to make a scraper and a DVD on how to flake for oil retention? I am more than willing to pay for this information if it is still available.

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  21. #55
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    The photo of the pin....they sometime use a center punch to swedge in the big end to help keep it in. You may be hitting on the wrong end. Use a expensive punch less then 6" long that is a bit smaller diameter (not a cheap Chinese on that will bend) and a good sized ball peen hammer. Light ones just bounce. When you swing the hammer do what a blacksmith does, tap lightly a couple of times and give it a good one. You may want to hold the punch with a vise grip. Be sure the machine is setting on some wood blocks and is solid. Sometimes they need to be drilled out too if they get hammered in to deep or they are broken. If you drill it, dull the drill a little by stoning the sharp leading edge so it mills more then drills. Many times a sharp drill will pull in hard and snap / break when you hit the outside outer edge.

    Yes the DVD is for sale either through me direct, on Ebay listed under Biax or surface plates, thru DAPRA.COM or Thru Biax Germany. You can email me for more info. [email protected] Oh I also sell the Edward Connelly book, Machine Tool Reconditioning and straight-edge castings. Oh and I am still teaching scraping/rebuilding seminars.

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  23. #56
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    Thanks Richard
    Ill give it a shot next weekend when im home. I would like to get it all apart, cleaned and painted this weekend or next. I will hopefully drop off the parts to be scraped soon. I will post pics when I get them back.

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  25. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stang Bladeworks View Post
    Thanks Richard
    Ill give it a shot next weekend when im home. I would like to get it all apart, cleaned and painted this weekend or next. I will hopefully drop off the parts to be scraped soon. I will post pics when I get them back.
    See if you can stay and watch how he does it. It's always easier to learn by watching. One of these days that guy might want to retire and there you go :-) a 2nd profession.

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    If he will let me and im not at work i WILL be there. I would love to check it out.

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    I have removed all of the auto stuff. I found some old tools inside and some damaged parts. I had to cut some of the parts out to remove them. This machine will live out its days as a fully manual machine. I started looking into the column and i found that the zerks on the z axis are for lubricating the vertical ways. It seemss that someone used lithium grease to lubricate these. I assume these should have way oil instead. If this is the case I will disassemble enough to remove the grease and clean everything. I will try to source new zerks for use with oil. Im not sure if they are different from regular ones. If its not too costly I will just replace all the zerk fittings. I also learned that there used to be an oiler with 4 outputs. One for each shaft used to move the axis and one that is just hanging above the orbital gear. Im not sure if it fell out of somewhere or if its supposed to just oil the gear from above. The entire column seems very dry right now. Ill post up some pics. Im pretty sure I would need to remove the spindle to expose the vertical ways. I hope that it can be easily reassembled after. Any input or ideas are welcome. Thanks for reading.

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    Here are the pics20190727_102255.jpg20190727_102424.jpg20190727_102739.jpg
    20190727_103221.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20190727_102525.jpg  


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