Thinning thick Canode?

sfriedberg · Mar 10, 2021

I have three bottles of Canode I got a few years ago, and they have done that funny thing where the plastic bottles have sucked inward (as if there's a vacuum inside, but there is no actual negative pressure) and the contents have gotten a bit thick.

I found the 2014 thread here about collapsing bottles and thinning, just wanted to see if there's more recent advice than adding Windex or distilled water to the bottle to thin it out a bit. I do use Windex when thinning on the surface plate, but would like to hear from someone who has stored Canode with Windex mixed in about the long-term effect.

M.B. Naegle · Mar 10, 2021

I'd be interested to hear more on the topic as my couple bottles are getting more triangular, but not too thin to work with (yet).

IMO, knowing how much of whatever to add or how thin it should be will all be in the print. That was a helpful lesson I learned early on in determining how much or how little ink to spread out. If the print only shows a few spots and they are all pale blue, too thin. If there are loads of spots and they are all dark blue, too thick. If the spots, however many or few there are, show a variety of pale blue to dark blue and even the individual spots show contrast, then it's just right. I found that with different tints of granite surface plate, the color of the spread ink can vary, so a little trial and error with your own tools helps the most.

JST · Mar 10, 2021

Had that problem, mixed in a bit more water, and all is well.

Water does go through the plastic the bottles are made of, which is how that happens. Slowly, but it does. So you can figure that water added back would work.

I did that, trying small amounts until it seemed about right. Much better now, back to more-or-less where it was originally. I used "condensed" water, from a dehumidifier. Basically the same as distilled, or rain water.

It takes some time and shaking to get it mixed in, but it will mix.

Yes, I judged from how it printed. Not wanting to go past the right point, I probably stopped short of the best mixture, but it was "OK", and I let it be at that.

thermite · Mar 11, 2021

JST said:
I used "condensed" water, from a dehumidifier. Basically the same as distilled, or rain water.

"rain" water, only maybe. The way rain "happens" each droplet has (at least) one high-altitude dust mote around which the parent ice formed. So "clean" is relative.

De-hum water, by comparison is downright FILTHY!

It is chock-full of mold spores, pollens, skin flakes, and the critters that live off same, their eggs and feces so small and light as to be dispersed as aerosols are ... as well as dust motes as are FAR to Hell and gone more prevalent in our places where we USE de-hum at all... down close to sea-level in the "biosphere" not stratosphere nor even upper troposphere.

Most ANY potable water other than natural Alka-Selzers laden with minerals (San Pellegrino, for one) will be cleaner than de-hum / AC condensation.

De-ionized water, as was once essential for developing "archival" grade film and prints w/o getting mineral stains that could show-up scores of years LATER.. would be better even than "distilled".

Academic, my view.

Oil-based transfer media doesn't risk rust.

That's all I needed to know about water-based spotting media and "adjusting" with Windex and - what is it cuts the dirt to make it work well? Quaternery Ammonia?

Ain't that just bitchin' for finely fitted metals?

Seems to me... there have been 3 or 4 folk posting from the African Continent who actually KNOW their s**t but it ain't necessarily the SAME s**t different snide rage pattern as has been kinda lonely on our menu?

Wish we could hear MORE of the alternative inputs, if only for sanity cross-checking..... and a few other pragmatic options we'd otherwise MISS in the blizzard of one-way-or-the-highway sales propaganda?

Diversity of possible solutions - what discussion forums are ABOUT, basically - so folks can query, pick, choose, fead back, share relative degrees of win or lose history . "learn", IOW. ....and do it again better, wiser, and faster downright fails without the "diversity"
inputs.

2CW

Richard King · Mar 11, 2021

I have had that happen several times. I just pump 4 to 6 squirts of Windex in it. Shake it up and do it again if needed. I've had 1 gallon jugs do it, Blue and Yellow and I've never had a problem afterwards. I had a customer not heed my advice to use Windex and he used water and he didn't wash the watered down ink off and over night it rusted the straight-edge. On the bottles that shrink, I soak them in hot water in my laundry tub and squirt air into the bottle to expand it. That may take a few squirts. Bill you should be sure to turn up the pressure to 500 PSI when you do it. :-)

thermite · Mar 11, 2021

Richard King said:
Bill you should be sure to turn up the pressure to 500 PSI when you do it. :-)

LOL! Wellll... in the spirit of good cheer ... and sound advice? Or "sounds like" advice?

I'll keep that in mind, ever I give up oil based, week or so after Hong Kong harbor freezes clear to the seabed of a summer afternoon?

And "right back atcha?" similar good cheer?

Your case, I doubt an Enerpac could git the job done, the current gobbler-mint ever runs short of BS and drafts your munificent supply for emergency rations.

Petrified is fossilized when experiments on the trained behaviour of a predatory fish proved that past a certain point, he "just knows what he knows"..

Meanwhile.. "Windex?" And as a rust INHIBITOR?

Waddyah figure? The "bare-handed man's slow-poison of choice?"

Why You Should Stop Using Windex

Prolly a good job I do NOT clean my windows all that often after all?
Bound to be sumthin' in the nitrile gloves as ain't good for yah, either.

Might try coating yer hands with BUTTER?

Or mebbe that OTHER common "organic" (man, is it EVER!) "natural" product, you don't mind shades of BROWN for spotty compound?

Be frugal and "kind to the Earth". Save a blewed Prussian, rouged Red, or a yeller French pastry:

"Run what you got... the MOST of!"

Orbital77 · Mar 11, 2021

thermite said:
Seems to me... there have been 3 or 4 folk posting from the African Continent who actually KNOW their s**t but it ain't necessarily the SAME s**t different snide rage pattern as has been kinda lonely on our menu?

Wish we could hear MORE of the alternative inputs, if only for sanity cross-checking..... and a few other pragmatic options we'd otherwise MISS in the blizzard of one-way-or-the-highway sales propaganda?

Diversity of possible solutions - what discussion forums are ABOUT, basically - so folks can query, pick, choose, fead back, share relative degrees of win or lose history . "learn", IOW. ....and do it again better, wiser, and faster downright fails without the "diversity"
inputs.

2CW

The two SIP scraper hands and the "ajusteur" send you their best wishes. It's completely pointless to advise here as you well know and the board is nothing but a couple of well meaning enthusiasts and a ... sales channel.

thermite · Mar 11, 2021

Orbital77 said:
The two SIP scraper hands and the "ajusteur" send you their best wishes.

"Igualmente". I don't need to "agree on all things in life" to learn value from others. Neither do they!

My email works, "PM-PM" is only optioned-off because the tiny storage count can fill-up in less than a single day. It wasn't meant to replace folks "other" email anyway.

It's completely pointless to advise here as you well know and the board is nothing but a couple of well meaning enthusiasts and a ... sales channel.

Beg to differ. More diverse than that, more than just "well meaning". Variety HAS survived and prospered, but to be fair? Only because we have a wise, INORDINATELY patient, moderator who has worked harder than he should have had to for several years now to make it possible. And more than a few contributors with their own rations of the C.O. Jones "elixir".

Plenty of solutions, "legacy" and alternative have been getting a "fairer" shot of late. I hope that continues and expands.

"Success" is the only paycheck a Moderator gets after all. And we owe him for seeing it through.

As to "commercials"?

I don't personally mind choices being offered.
Especially from folk who DO have "their very own website", after all.

So long as not leveraged as part of a bullying excercise for attempted "Domination of the Draka".

Naturally, I find it MOST amusing that it is the South-of-the-Equator folk who have NOT attempted to dominate!

Then again? S. M. Stirling wasn't FROM that part of the world, so whaddid HE know as to how folks just find their own ways to "get along, somehow", pay the bills, eat reg'lar meals, and amuse their choice(s) of blanket-sharers?

If any.

JST · Mar 11, 2021

Richard King said:
I have had that happen several times. I just pump 4 to 6 squirts of Windex in it. Shake it up and do it again if needed. I've had 1 gallon jugs do it, Blue and Yellow and I've never had a problem afterwards. I had a customer not heed my advice to use Windex and he used water and he didn't wash the watered down ink off and over night it rusted the straight-edge........

Never seen any rust whatever..... it dries so fast even with the original water added back in, that it is apparently not an issue. Maybe in Louisiana in summer it could be an issue, but new Canode would be the same.

The canode has water in it to begin with, so all you are doing is to return it to "new condition".

thermite · Mar 11, 2021

JST said:
Never seen any rust whatever..... it dries so fast even with the original water added back in, that it is apparently not an issue. Maybe in Louisiana in summer it could be an issue, but new Canode would be the same.

The canode has water in it to begin with, so all you are doing is to return it to "new condition".

Seems we all get bored to - wot "canode tears with pus lumps in them"? ... and re-visit this juice at wot? Annual or near-as-dammit intervals?

Testing Spotting Inks and Ink Rollers for Scraping

My OLDEST (admittedly forgotten about-neglected) squeeze-tube of "non-drying Prussian Blue" proved it was exactly as "non-drying" as it claimed to be over sixty years on.

Not as if we had to spot with highly perishable fresh blood .. or IS it?

Get your choice of chilled, not-so-fresh pig's blood or beef blood over to the Asian food market.

Want to use yer own? Just check the bank account and book a class, travel, and lodging.

Food don't count extra. Most folk have to eat SOMEWHERE, regardless, and seldom two places at once, same meal.

Not that I can claim any hands-on expertise, but just based-off what the grown-ups read out-loud from the funny papers, I'd surmise that learning to scrape is a wiser investment than paying "night ladies" to pretend you know how to shag?

Rich? About your wardrobe...? And can you spot with Harlot-Scarlet lipstick and belly-push in high heeled shoes?

"Sales and Marketing" thing.. you DO want to attract payin' customers?

"Double-feature" shew could work?

Can't scrape? A(ny) cross-dresser in times of changing signs is almost assured a Government job with a fat retirement, decent health scare, and even COLA.

Orbital77 · Mar 12, 2021

thermite said:
Beg to differ. More diverse than that, more than just "well meaning". Variety HAS survived and prospered, but to be fair? Only because we have a wise, INORDINATELY patient, moderator who has worked harder than he should have had to for several years now to make it possible. And more than a few contributors with their own rations of the C.O. Jones "elixir".

Plenty of solutions, "legacy" and alternative have been getting a "fairer" shot of late. I hope that continues and expands.

"Success" is the only paycheck a Moderator gets after all. And we owe him for seeing it through.

You could be right. I read a lot of this "board" and it was great fun - I confess that much. Problem is ( and not only here...) that on the web one does not know with whom exactly one is talking, to whom exactly one gives advice or from who one receives such. In some cultures this does not matter much. But old German culture is different.

There was some days ago a thread on how to fix a lathe, scrape or grind. There are no two answers there but to ARGUE the right one will take me at least a page of typing. Don't mind doing that for somebody who makes a living at it, don't get me wrong. But when the OP has 18 thousand posts and asks such questions, then I really have to think twice. Same in this thread. VERY bad idea to use water on cast iron but (clearly) useless to explain why. No point in irritating people....

thermite · Mar 12, 2021

Orbital77 said:
You could be right. I read a lot of this "board" and it was great fun - I confess that much. Problem is ( and not only here...) that on the web one does not know with whom exactly one is talking, to whom exactly one gives advice or from who one receives such. In some cultures this does not matter much. But old German culture is different.
There was some days ago a thread on how to fix a lathe, scrape or grind. There are no two answers there but to ARGUE the right one will take me at least a page of typing. Don't mind doing that for somebody who makes a living at it, don't get me wrong. But when the OP has 18 thousand posts and asks such questions, then I really have to think twice. Same in this thread. VERY bad idea to use water on cast iron but (clearly) useless to explain why. No point in irritating people....

LOL! "Cultural differences"! I never met my G'G Mother from Bavaria, nor HER Mother from Switzerland, but plenty of exposure in the bizness world to the .. what to call it? "Expectations of Structure"? of DE nationals and their downlines!

One way it has been put?

====

The Austrians once ran a rather large empire. For a long time. And now they don't. They are actually HAPPY about that, and just get on with enjoying life.

The Germans have been ATTEMPTING to run a "large empire" ever since Charles Martel was seen to be French. They can't seem to make an empire last even ten whole years at a go, but won't quit trying.

And they are perpetually UNhappy about that the whole time, even when they ARE in the driver's seat!

===

I have a "surrogate son". Zeurcher Swiss. After all of his disparaging of close-by Germans for being overly formal and overly status conscious for "modern times"?

He went borderline ballistic one day over a year or so younger SWISS guy who was:

"Alway's 'du'ing me when he should have been 'sie'ing me!"

And he wasn't yet 25 years of age?

Go figure "PM" has no "status" nor regimentation.

Even if King Richard thinks it SHOULD have!

Speak (or write) your mind. No fear.

Volunteers will arrive and f**k it up FOR you at no charge.

More efficient that way as a shared "stone soup" party!
Bring whatever you have.
Cooks will deal with it.
Nobody need go away hungry.

Going away "angry"? ... that part is a personal choice.

It's only the dam' INTERNET, after all.

Can't WIN a damned thing. But can't really LOSE, either.

JST · Mar 12, 2021

Orbital77 said:
.......... VERY bad idea to use water on cast iron but (clearly) useless to explain why. No point in irritating people....

I would point out (again) that the Canode HAS water in it. So does Windex, which is mostly water with a bunch of other stuff in it (see above, someone posted the SDS ). Since Mr King has no issues with Windex, and others no issues with straight water , perhaps it is not a problem.

The PH has a lot to do with rusting.... old time coolant is (gasp, choke) water, with various additives usually including lye. High PH is protective against rusting.

While one usually machines CI dry, the coolant would clearly run over the table etc..... So does mix-it-up-with-water coolant now. So running away from anything containing water with your hair on fire may not be entirely reasonable.

Proof is in the doing..... No rust on any straightedge etc here, despite use with Canode as-original, or the thickened stuff diluted back to original consistency with (gasp, choke) water...... Not theory, but actual several years experience.

It seems the makers of Canode may actually know something that you have not thought of.

Orbital77 · Mar 13, 2021

JST said:
I would point out (again) that the Canode HAS water in it. So does Windex, which is mostly water with a bunch of other stuff in it (see above, someone posted the SDS ). Since Mr King has no issues with Windex, and others no issues with straight water , perhaps it is not a problem.

The PH has a lot to do with rusting.... old time coolant is (gasp, choke) water, with various additives usually including lye. High PH is protective against rusting.

While one usually machines CI dry, the coolant would clearly run over the table etc..... So does mix-it-up-with-water coolant now. So running away from anything containing water with your hair on fire may not be entirely reasonable.

Proof is in the doing..... No rust on any straightedge etc here, despite use with Canode as-original, or the thickened stuff diluted back to original consistency with (gasp, choke) water...... Not theory, but actual several years experience.

It seems the makers of Canode may actually know something that you have not thought of.

Thank you. I am glad it works for you. My mentioning had nothing to do with rust, by the way.

Orbital77 · Mar 13, 2021

thermite said:
LOL!

The Austrians once ran a rather large empire. For a long time. And now they don't. They are actually HAPPY about that, and just get on with enjoying life.

The Germans have been ATTEMPTING to run a "large empire" ever since Charles Martel was seen to be French. They can't seem to make an empire last even ten whole years at a go, but won't quit trying.

And they are perpetually UNhappy about that the whole time, even when they ARE in the driver's seat!

True. The Germans moved around a quite a bit - they've been in Southern Africa for quite a while. Not successfully though at least as far as I can tell. The Austrians however DID do great, eventually.

And I don't think we've heard the last word from that direction, yet. Very talented people and they owned Italy for a (long) while. What more could one want ? But then I am biased as I am very disappointed with "my" Germans. I was expecting some honest discussions post 1991 and ... nothing. Absolutely nothing.

You keep well !

thermite · Mar 13, 2021

Orbital77 said:
True. The Germans moved around a quite a bit - they've been in Southern Africa for quite a while. Not successfully though at least as far as I can tell. The Austrians however DID do great, eventually. And I don't think we've heard the last word from that direction, yet. Very talented people and they owned Italy for a (long) while. What more could one want ? But then I am biased as I am very disappointed with "my" Germans. I was expecting some honest discussions post 1991 and ... nothing. Absolutely nothing.

You keep well !

ISTR researching "Saxony" ... only to find the definition made somewhere around NINE major area, shape, and border shifts over not all that long a span of history?

"The more things change.. the more times we discuss finding lumps in the Canode?"

Guess we should be happy it ain't breast nor testicular cancer?

Orbital77 · Mar 13, 2021

thermite said:
ISTR researching "Saxony" ... only to find the definition made somewhere around NINE major area, shape, and border shifts over not all that long a span of history?

"The more things change.. the more times we discuss finding lumps in the Canode?"

Guess we should be happy it ain't breast nor testicular cancer?

Medieval history not my strength but I think you are right : they like sold the name all over the place...

Strange how much of the UNSOLVED history keeps biting our behinds still. I won't be clever enough for this but it was nicely explained to me by a Prof of History how WWII ( and Korea + Vietnam ) can be traced directly to the French Revolution.

And yes, we should be happy. We had our times,met some people, battle our machines and made a couple of quasi-useless tools.

What more could one want ?

JST · Mar 13, 2021

Orbital77 said:
Thank you. I am glad it works for you. My mentioning had nothing to do with rust, by the way.

Well you might enlighten us as to the issue you were thinking about. If not chemical, it may have to do with uneven cooling, or some other issue.

Certainly the Canode, which suffers evaporation of some components (water), has the potential to cause uneven cooling and so distortion of the reference surface.

That is an effect absent from HiSpot blue, and another advantage that the messy stuff has, besides higher "sensitivity".

However, so far you seem happy to make no further comment, smugly asserting your superiority, and feeling no need to explain WTF you are referring to.

Whatever floats your watch, I guess.

Orbital77 · Mar 14, 2021

JST said:
Well you might enlighten us as to the issue you were thinking about. If not chemical, it may have to do with uneven cooling, or some other issue.

Certainly the Canode, which suffers evaporation of some components (water), has the potential to cause uneven cooling and so distortion of the reference surface.

That is an effect absent from HiSpot blue, and another advantage that the messy stuff has, besides higher "sensitivity".

However, so far you seem happy to make no further comment, smugly asserting your superiority, and feeling no need to explain WTF you are referring to .

Whatever floats your watch, I guess.

And now you see why.

I wasn't "challenging" your "expertise" - I was chatting to somebody else. You could've asked normally, in a single sentence - instead you chose to half insult me. It's why I don't engage anonymous assholes on the internet. It wastes my times and irritates the asshole.

thermite · Mar 14, 2021

JST said:
Certainly the Canode, which suffers evaporation of some components (water), has the potential to cause uneven cooling and so distortion of the reference surface.

It is water-based. So is milk. How long do you store milk? What happens to long term storage Diesel Fuel when it gets enough water in it to support the unavoidable biologicals?

That is an effect absent from HiSpot blue, and another advantage that the messy stuff has, besides higher "sensitivity".

Do tell? Disposable gloves render "messy" irrelevant. Even "bare hands guy" posted recently as to gloving-up.

Now.... King Richard may use his Canoodle and Charmedbonehell at intervals of less than 48-hour gaps, long-term-average, week after week, all dam' YEAR ... for fifty years.. and counting.

Makes sense to him? Must do. Good on 'im. He has his reasons. May he operate in peace, live long ... and even prosper.

My spotting goops, OTOH, can sit for many YEARS between any "significant" need.

Why would I want to have to try to "repair" the equivalent of sour milk trying to promote itself to a pay rise as cottage-cheese ...when I need not be bothered at all with JF LAY THERE with no ambition atall ...oil-based?

Oil-based is lazy? BFD. So am I!

However, so far you seem happy to make no further comment, smugly asserting your superiority, and feeling no need to explain WTF you are referring to.

I rather suspect you'd see much the same reaction if the proud owner of a rubber-ducky were to have queried Sir Frances Drake on the finer points of seakeeping, rounding Cape Horn .. in the teeth of a Force 9 gale... in the dark of a harsh winter night?

"Job One" for you is electronics. Scraping is what? Is it even a tertiary skill? You are a well-rounded person with more than just the one or two interests? More humans are than are not. Probably two DOZEN decent skills ahead of scraping skill?

Not even in the top 1,000 for me.

I just tend to "packrat" skills at several orders of magnitude greater rate than I do hardware. Investment cost and storage space thing.

Orbital appears to have done something ELSE for a year or three? Maybe longer?

Sometimes you just "can't get THERE from HERE" for lack of sufficient common experience?

That ain't "smugly". One might better class his low-volume approach as "mercifully"?

Thinning thick Canode?

Diamond

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Cast Iron

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