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“USSR” machinist straightedges NOS any good?

Glenn Brooks

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Location
Woodinville, Wa
Hiya, I see people in the Russian Republic and Ukraine occasionally sell precision straightedge castings supposedly originating from old USSR machine shops.

Anybody have experience with these castings to say if they are actually decent enuf to prep and use to assist in scraping machine tools?

Thanks
Glenn
 
Don't have experience with Soviet straightedges, but their precision tools (micrometers etc.), while a bit heavy, were accurate enough. The design ethic seemed to be - hey, add some metal. I'd think you should plan on checking them and prepared to rescrape -- which you probably already knew.

We're still riding their buses to the Space Station . . .
 
Thanks Pete, yep, figuring on scraping in, or rescraping if an old one. Also should have qualified my question, a bit, as castings that are advertised nowadays don’t specify whether they are stress relieved or not. If not, wondering how one knows what is proper stress relief for a precision straight edge.
 
If they've actually been sitting around for 40 years, might have had time to relax :) Old practice for machine castings was to leave them outside for a summer and winter or two. I'd be looking at the seller's other stuff to gauge if it's old surplus.

Are shipping costs on these reasonable??
 
If they've actually been sitting around for 40 years, might have had time to relax :) Old practice for machine castings was to leave them outside for a summer and winter or two. I'd be looking at the seller's other stuff to gauge if it's old surplus.

Are shipping costs on these reasonable??

A prismatic dovetail out of Ukraine and a toolmakers "knife" SE out of Moldova were very affordable and not all that long of a wait. AFAKC the knife SE had gone to Moldova ex "East Germany", long time ago. Decent goods, both.

Russian Federation? I've still giving that a miss, much as most major governments are.

Not wanting to risk supporting possible stolen goods when entire industries were looted by the railway boxcar load out of the Donbas to partially offset the cost of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Meanwhile, "right here in America", Denis Foster is going into the first batches of prismatics to add to his lovely camelback.

2CW
 
If they were cast with USSR, CCCP or the Red Star that would be pretty neat to have one.

But I think this is not the case.....
 
If they were cast with USSR, CCCP or the Red Star that would be pretty neat to have one.

But I think this is not the case.....

LOL! I can probably GET you ones with King Tut's image on them. Or Adam and Eve. Or Dragons..

Out of Asia.

But if it is a good-ole IRON SE you'd rather have than just another decor-tator-ative tourist-trap souvenir like those cold-rolled steel "Dai Katana" Samurai-Sword-shaped-objects as can't REALLY even cut milkweed overgrowing the back garden (don't ask!!!) ?

Denis. Or even Richard. Not as if a person had to buy a "fresh" one every week. They last a veeeerrrrryyyy long time. And can be sold-on. Pretty sure I've spent more on chocolate milk, most years, actually.

:)
 
It's 11/2/18 and if anyone wants a straight edge before my month long trip I will eat the UPS shipping charges on the 12", 18" and 24" Camelbacks. Have to ship on or before Nov 7. You can see them on ebay under KingScraping
 
One of my classmates at the Texas 2017 scraping class had a "Bridge" style SE for his class project that seemed stable enough.

IMO, the bridge style SE's are really more of a benchtop inspection tool. If you're doing rebuilding, the camelback SE's like Richard sells will be much more convenient to use.
 
One of my classmates at the Texas 2017 scraping class had a "Bridge" style SE for his class project that seemed stable enough.

IMO, the bridge style SE's are really more of a benchtop inspection tool. If you're doing rebuilding, the camelback SE's like Richard sells will be much more convenient to use.

Camelbacks are the ones as actually owe their stress management shape to lessons learned off early "bridge" structures. Still works. See "open spandrel arch". Key Bridge, Rosslyn Va <=> Georgetown DC as an example very similar to a camelback, "reversed".

Tough bridges, that design, and the hardest type of all to destroy rapidly. It was handy, so one of many Belvoir used for training to "get the maths right" for young Combat Engineer non-coms and Officers!

If you mean the parallel type, those are cousins to much later trussed and "through plate" bridges that could not be built until much more recently when mankind had developed stronger materials than rope, wood, or bamboo. Cast iron and wrought iron, initially, rolled plate, riveted and welded later yet. The legendary "Bailey" bridge one of the most useful, ever, and still in use today.

Bunch of the oldest original cast-iron and wrought-iron bridges are also still in service, UK, and parts of Europe.

Some of their contemporaries collapsed. It was how we learned before computer simulations!
 
I have a pair of the "bridge" style straightedges that I plan to match so that I can use levels and straightedges to do longer distances than the edge will cover on its own. They check very flat as far as I can tell as ground. I would say withing .0002" over 40inches.
 
I have a pair of the "bridge" style straightedges that I plan to match so that I can use levels and straightedges to do longer distances than the edge will cover on its own. They check very flat as far as I can tell as ground. I would say withing .0002" over 40inches.

I'm as anal as the next guy about the pursuit of perfection. When I can afford it. Or sometimes even when I cannot.

But sanity-check. Nice as it is to have a "one-tenth" SE, if we even NEED a straightedge at ALL is usually because some machine tool is out of spec a Helluva LOT.

Multiple integral thousandths. Multiple tens of the little buggers, even.

If that can be reduced to some small fraction of the initial wear? We have a positive gain, yah?

And we could do that with a rather ORDINARY SE, too.

Any given machine is bad enough off, even a ruddy carpenter's SE or a draughtsman's heavy steel rule and some hard work?

There'd be a genuine improvement still possible. Muck about with preparing "more perfect" tools long enough? Machine never gets any repair at all. DAMHIKT.
 
I'm as anal as the next guy about the pursuit of perfection. When I can afford it. Or sometimes even when I cannot.

But sanity-check. Nice as it is to have a "one-tenth" SE, if we even NEED a straightedge at ALL is usually because some machine tool is out of spec a Helluva LOT.

Multiple integral thousandths. Multiple tens of the little buggers, even.

If that can be reduced to some small fraction of the initial wear? We have a positive gain, yah?

And we could do that with a rather ORDINARY SE, too.

Any given machine is bad enough off, even a ruddy carpenter's SE or a draughtsman's heavy steel rule and some hard work?

There'd be a genuine improvement still possible. Muck about with preparing "more perfect" tools long enough? Machine never gets any repair at all. DAMHIKT.

Well I guess you could just eyeball it and make it better if it is bad enough. Me I like to do a better job than that though. You can't get where you want to go if you can't figure out where you are. I was just commenting that my 1000mm Bridge style straight edges are pretty good and straight and I wouldn't fault their quality any.
 
Well I guess you could just eyeball it and make it better if it is bad enough. Me I like to do a better job than that though. You can't get where you want to go if you can't figure out where you are. I was just commenting that my 1000mm Bridge style straight edges are pretty good and straight and I wouldn't fault their quality any.

I'd call them astonishingly good already if they really are .0002" over 40 INCHES.

Where I was concerned is where you said you planned to go further and "match" them?

If you've not heeded the word "thermal effects" how about "diminishing returns".

Two "tenths" calls for the Rego-Fix and other first-Tier ER makers as "ultra precise" grade even of collet TIR. Ordinary goods are an "average" of .0006" over their ~ 1mm collapse range.

The most perfect of ways under the lathe running such workholding and toolholding can't fix their error, only try to not add to it.

"Diminishing returns" given carriages average-out error, too.

Long ones, as on Grand-Olds, Monarch, Hendey, Rivett, ATW, L&S, Acelson, etc. - all the greats used wiiiiiide carriages - by rather a lot.

"Pissisonyah Matthews" and other cheap LSO's with short & narrow carriages, some also with jacked-up swing, too? Not so good at all.

Soft-bed South Bend you can make lovely. For about a year. Then it is already starting to wear again even if you have been very careful to clean and oil.

"Diminishing returns".
 
Anybody know of a west coast shop that can grind or relap an existing surface plate for use as a reference standard for scraping machine surfaces and straightedges? I am thinking my OK ish grizzly Grade B surface plate could be upgraded to a Grade A or better for this use.

Thanks
Glenn B.
 
Anybody know of a west coast shop that can grind or relap an existing surface plate for use as a reference standard for scraping machine surfaces and straightedges? I am thinking my OK ish grizzly Grade B surface plate could be upgraded to a Grade A or better for this use.

Thanks
Glenn B.

US labour rates don't care that the stone was cheap nor dear. so the closer to good, the faster and cheaper the vetting and touch-up.

First, "upgrading" a Grizzly plate, even if you are inclined to do it, may cost more than the plate did.

Second, it SHOULD be less costly to purchase a used plate of far heavier section that is either already a grade A in need of but vetting and "good enough" or at least more likely to hold any hired improvements for far longer years with lower risk it will need them again, soon.

Natural stone is natural stone ancient beyond human comprehension and not made by men, careless or keen, so it isn't as if Grizzly cannot have a good plate, but.

Most are not very thick, are they? "Real" Grade A are thick and heavy bastards. They need to be to hold what they are meant to be.

An "honest" Grade B, eg not grooved and munged in spots by years of careless nor "concentrated" by area use, should actually be all you need for a great deal of realistic work.

My B&S "B" would have been fine. It was, however, no longer "good all over", nor long enough for the longer SE's.

The ancient Herman 30" X 48" Grade A turned out to be astonishingly better and "good all over" than I had any right to expect for under $400. Former owners had taken rather good care of it, had the certs done year after year.
 
Thermite,

Yes, Grizzly plates are generally around 3” thick, at least mine is. It’s not a bad plate for general shop work. Although does have surface variation from 0 at one corner to 4 microns in center, over 12” , then back down to 0 and 1 mics at the other corners. So basically a small rounded hill in the center of a 24” square plate, about .0002” high, sloping down to the edges. At least that’s what the original cert says. I have no way to verify.

Iam certainly a novice at scraping, just learning, so thinking about what is the proper tolerance when using my reference surface for occasional scraping needs.

If I can find a shop that does this work, might be an excellent idea to find a heavier used plate, and have it recertified. Thanks for that idea. I hadn’t thought about this approach.

Glenn
 








 
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