This is why i need to learn to use turcite and hand scrape - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by marka12161 View Post
    great point as that will directly effect the cut. I'll take that measurement.
    thanks for the tip
    I took the horizontal measurements as recommended and came up with what looks to be a linearly increasing variation over the length of the bed. Then it occurred to me that i have not yet leveled the bed so i'm not sure these measurements mean anything. I think i'll kick this can down the road until i get the machine cleaned up, back together in place and running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    I am late to this party but wanted to clarify that Moglice is not at all like Turcite, not in composition as well as application. Think of Moglice like very hard , high grade JBweld with slippery stuff in it. It does not compress and clamps perfectly, not like Turcite/Garlock. In my experience with Moglice applied over a properly ground surface, it exhibited severe stichon due to the precise mating of the components and required alot of flaking to make things slide easily. Very much like wringing of gage blocks. For me, the alignment and setting up of the Moglice was much easier using a adjustable fixture than trying to precision scrape the base for pitch, yaw, roll and height.
    So am i to understand that Moglice would be applied to the bearing surfaces on the bottom of the tailstock and does not exhibit the "sliding problem" when clamped for drilling?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by marka12161 View Post
    I took the horizontal measurements as recommended and came up with what looks to be a linearly increasing variation over the length of the bed. Then it occurred to me that i have not yet leveled the bed so i'm not sure these measurements mean anything. I think i'll kick this can down the road until i get the machine cleaned up, back together in place and running.
    Should really level the machine before trying to take any meaningful measurements, but wouldnt have thought it would affect this particular test much if any. Id probably level this machine across the tops of the V ways, deburr them first and level at each end, keep the level square to the ways to avoid error if the machine isnt level to earth through Z, you can check by twisting the level and see how much bubble movement you get. When youre done there you can ride the level up and down on the carriage and compare the results.

    You said the readings are linear, thats another good sign for the bed imo, just that the surface mightn't be perfectly aligned to the ways, could be the bed has been previously ground, its a 70 year old plus machine so who knows. If you saw a sudden change in reading as the saddle got near the chuck that might suggest biased wear to the inner V, which is normal.

    All of this is 5 minute checks, nothing to dwell over. Think of it as gathering evidence to find out what shape youre bed is actually in.

    Cheers
    D

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by marka12161 View Post
    So am i to understand that Moglice would be applied to the bearing surfaces on the bottom of the tailstock and does not exhibit the "sliding problem" when clamped for drilling?
    Correct...at least in my experience. Moglice does not "give" like turcite. It is very hard, and the cured edges will cut like a razor. My apron required alot of flaking so that it would slide easily, the way contact was so tight I could barely move it. The tailstock base, I did the same thing , but didn't flake as much as I like that it needs a good firm tug to move it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    Correct...at least in my experience. Moglice does not "give" like turcite. It is very hard, and the cured edges will cut like a razor. My apron required alot of flaking so that it would slide easily, the way contact was so tight I could barely move it. The tailstock base, I did the same thing , but didn't flake as much as I like that it needs a good firm tug to move it.
    Understand, thanks

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    Some have recommended machining the worn flat and V ways on the bottom of the tailstock and screwing on 1/8" to 1/4" thick shims then scraping to fit. I'm curious why no one has recommended this fix but attaching via brazing rather than with mechanical fasteners. Is the heat likely to warp surface that mates with the upper casting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marka12161 View Post
    Some have recommended machining the worn flat and V ways on the bottom of the tailstock and screwing on 1/8" to 1/4" thick shims then scraping to fit. I'm curious why no one has recommended this fix but attaching via brazing rather than with mechanical fasteners. Is the heat likely to warp surface that mates with the upper casting?
    Probably because it would take so much heat the process makes it a real PITA. You can't do it with a torch. You'd heat a local area up to temp but adjacent areas of the casting and shim won't be hot enough to melt the braze. You could do it in a furnace by putting the flux and braze alloy between the casting and shims, then heat the whole assembly up to braze melt temperature but who wants to do that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marka12161 View Post
    Some have recommended machining the worn flat and V ways on the bottom of the tailstock and screwing on 1/8" to 1/4" thick shims then scraping to fit. I'm curious why no one has recommended this fix but attaching via brazing rather than with mechanical fasteners. Is the heat likely to warp surface that mates with the upper casting?
    Even low-eutectic soft solder would be a PITA to flow. No gain.

    Fasteners don't see much loading in shear, anyway.

    More common is to insert taller / add from cold start a shim between the "shoe" or lower section of a two-piece TS and the upper section.

    That leaves the contact surfaces after milling / scraping, the same-old grey Iron as they left the factory, just no longer as "tall".

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    I can scrape pretty good, but when folks talk about securing some sort of metal or even turcite under some severely worn way and then scraping to new machine alignment perfection, I have to pause. Do they really understand what it takes to do that accurately? Scraping for flatness is one thing but combining that with accurate alignment in a number of planes is another thing altogether, and is quite a skill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daryl bane View Post
    I can scrape pretty good, but when folks talk about securing some sort of metal or even turcite under some severely worn way and then scraping to new machine alignment perfection, I have to pause. Do they really understand what it takes to do that accurately? Scraping for flatness is one thing but combining that with accurate alignment in a number of planes is another thing altogether, and is quite a skill.
    Whether I "can" or not, I'm far too jealous of my waning TIME to not make use of mill and surface grinder services instead. That cuts the local labour back to surface "flake" only.

    End of the day, new TS ram and line-boring ON the (restored first, thanks) ways it will ride is one part of the task that cannot be "sent out".


    In relative terms, the coin of THIS realm is cheaper than borrowing from the next one.

    Too long a period of uncertainty before yah know if the loan has been approved. y'see.



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