2015 Brother R450 W/two Brother T200 4ths installed. - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    How much work is it to pull the 4ths off the tables? As in 70% of my work is 2.5 axis and the rest is 4th axis. I am thinking it's a lot of work.
    Few hours. The air can all stay. Just close the valve feeding the solenoids.
    The cables are a little more work because they go through the center of the table. And they are pretty long.
    Would you need to pull them for the 2.5 stuff? There is a decent amount of table when there is nothing mounted on the 4th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelieking71 View Post
    Few hours. The air can all stay. Just close the valve feeding the solenoids.
    The cables are a little more work because they go through the center of the table. And they are pretty long.
    Would you need to pull them for the 2.5 stuff? There is a decent amount of table when there is nothing mounted on the 4th.
    To use my current fixtures I would have to, they are all for a 14"x20" machine. Granted to best utilize this machine I should redesign all of my fixtures to use pneumatic clamping, but a lot of my stuff is 500-1500 parts a year so new fixtures would take years for those savings to pay break even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    To use my current fixtures I would have to, they are all for a 14"x20" machine. Granted to best utilize this machine I should redesign all of my fixtures to use pneumatic clamping, but a lot of my stuff is 500-1500 parts a year so new fixtures would take years for those savings to pay break even.
    Sent you a message.

  4. #24
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    Or can the 4ths be scooted out a little to leave more table space while still allowing the turntable to rotate.

    Come on David make the deal!

  5. #25
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    Is the machine still available? Thank you.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROTHERFRANK View Post
    Is the machine still available? Thank you.
    Yes, still here. Andy saw it yesterday, LOL.

  7. #27
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    Still available. Who has a pile of 4-axis work they need to plow through fast?

  8. #28
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    Its amazing that with so many people saying they want one but no one buying?

    Charles

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    There is some kind of weirdness in the whole market - the economy is supposed to be quite "hot" (seattle real estate has become bizarre) - yet I see flyers with some new large machine tools in stock for immediate delivery. But smaller machines are hard to get????

    I wonder too how much of the "heat" in the current market is shops who can now get financing for new machines, so the new/old demand differential may be larger than usual. (Meanwhile used cars have prices approaching new - but there's a supply shortage at work there.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    There is some kind of weirdness in the whole market - the economy is supposed to be quite "hot" (seattle real estate has become bizarre) - yet I see flyers with some new large machine tools in stock for immediate delivery. But smaller machines are hard to get????

    I wonder too how much of the "heat" in the current market is shops who can now get financing for new machines, so the new/old demand differential may be larger than usual. (Meanwhile used cars have prices approaching new - but there's a supply shortage at work there.)
    SOME KIND OF WEIRDNESS??

    That's an understatement and a half.

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  12. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    There is some kind of weirdness in the whole market - the economy is supposed to be quite "hot" (seattle real estate has become bizarre) - yet I see flyers with some new large machine tools in stock for immediate delivery. But smaller machines are hard to get????

    I wonder too how much of the "heat" in the current market is shops who can now get financing for new machines, so the new/old demand differential may be larger than usual. (Meanwhile used cars have prices approaching new - but there's a supply shortage at work there.)
    Yep. Numerous late model high-zoot machines are being sold for give away prices these days. New machine has been financed and is on the way. Old machine must be sold for cash and quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CBlair View Post
    Its amazing that with so many people saying they want one but no one buying?

    Charles
    This machine in particular is a tough sell Charles because of the 4ths.
    Most of the peeps on here yapping they want a Brother most likely have a standard VMC in mind. Not a pallet machine with a 4th on each pallet.
    I have mentioned lots of times elsewhere how this machine came to be.
    I had a long running production job where two parts got a 3rd OP on a 4th. This was occupying two haas vf2's.
    This Brother was able to replace those two haas's for about 1/3 the footprint and 1/4 the energy. And increase throughput.
    It was brilliant (the machine, not me) until the job got squashed.

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    How much of the machining envelope is taken up by the 4th?

  16. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mutiny View Post
    How much of the machining envelope is taken up by the 4th?
    I'll try and come up with some hard numbers for that tomorrow.

  17. #35
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    I wasnt aware that taking them off would be a problem? I do understand how getting them set up the first time would take a lot of doing. For me I would prefer a machine with a Midaco style table changer. one with vises and one with a rotary. I wish you the best of luck in finding the machine a new happy owner.

    Or perhaps the right work will come along to make it profitable to you again.

    Charles

  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBlair View Post
    I wasnt aware that taking them off would be a problem? I do understand how getting them set up the first time would take a lot of doing. For me I would prefer a machine with a Midaco style table changer. one with vises and one with a rotary. I wish you the best of luck in finding the machine a new happy owner.

    Or perhaps the right work will come along to make it profitable to you again.

    Charles
    This one swaps tables in 3 seconds, how long do the Midacos take?

    Oh, while changing tools and positioning.

  19. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidScott View Post
    This one swaps tables in 3 seconds, how long do the Midacos take?

    Oh, while changing tools and positioning.
    Dont really care about that David, but thanks for mentioning it. Looking for the convenience of not having to set up the forth when needed, and storing it when it isnt. Also for a small production job that comes up now and then I can use the flat table for op 1 and the rotary for op2. While speed is good, and I wouldnt turn it down, it isnt necessary for my needs and for the day to day work I do. Short runs, custom work, small parts.

    Now if you are running day and night, then every second counts more.

    Charles

  20. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBlair View Post
    I wasnt aware that taking them off would be a problem? I do understand how getting them set up the first time would take a lot of doing. For me I would prefer a machine with a Midaco style table changer. one with vises and one with a rotary. I wish you the best of luck in finding the machine a new happy owner.

    Or perhaps the right work will come along to make it profitable to you again.

    Charles
    Charles, having owned both style of pallet changer for a considerable amount of time now:
    My opinion is the rotating table is far superior to the sliding pallet. In just about every way.

    Quote Originally Posted by CBlair View Post
    Looking for the convenience of not having to set up the forth when needed, and storing it when it isnt. Also for a small production job that comes up now and then I can use the flat table for op 1 and the rotary for op2. While speed is good, and I wouldnt turn it down, it isnt necessary for my needs and for the day to day work I do. Short runs, custom work, small parts.

    Charles
    It would be even easier to do exactly that ^^^^ in this machine than with sliding pallets.
    With sliding pallets you will have to disconnect the 4th to send it out. Not so with this one.
    Just do a pallet change and its out. 15 seconds, if that. It would literally be two key-strokes to swap between vise or 4th (MANUAL > PALLET-INDEX).
    Could even run vise work, and 4th work at the same time. Not gonna do that with sliding pallets. Not easily (or neatly) anyway.

  21. #39
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    Thanks for that, I didnt use a fourth with a pallet changer before. But I liked how accessible they were outside of the machine. Also the only rotary pallet changer I worked with didnt have any elbow room to do much on the table. Having a hard time visualizing how your setup is as I never saw it in person.

    Perhaps this will help someone else who is thinking of the same things.

    Have a great week.

    Charles

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  23. #40
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    Rotary table changer setup is vastly superior to Midaco style.

    I have junked a few and sold a few Midaco setups that still had a bit of life left in them. I would never want one on anything. They are about as cheese dick as you can get. Last setup I removed from a production environment because they had to slow the process down so far for lack of rigidity all pallet change benefits were moot.

    The massive advantage with the rotary style changer is there's nothing between you and the outboard table. You are in a very comfortable position to load/unload. Not leaning into the machine at all.

    For a 4th application, the rotary table is superior for cable routing/interation as well. The tables go back and forth, not one direction so your 4th plumbing has an easy, long life.

    The rotary table type machines have been around a long time. A lot of these style machines that are 20+ years old and not fast enough to bring home the bacon anymore are used for mixed work with a 4th on one table and fixtures/vises on the other.

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