BLISS 21 ton press Very Old
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  1. #1
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    Default BLISS 21 ton press Very Old

    Vintage Bliss 21 ton back geared single stroke press for Sale. $100.00 You move. located in central Iowa. See pics. I have never fired it up. 50 miles form both I-35 N/S and I-80 E/W I hope the description is accurate. Thanks
    John img_0007.jpgimg_0006.jpg

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    Could anyone make an educated guess as to how much this machine weights? Thanks. John

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    Quote Originally Posted by john worden View Post
    Could anyone make an educated guess as to how much this machine weights? Thanks. John

    You would have to know a little more - like "flywheel" diameter. (its a FLYWHEEL PRESS) 1901 Manning, Maxwell & Moore Machine Tool Catalog lists similar of them from 550 to 11,000 lbs

    If a 24" "flywheel" then 900 - plus the motor, etc - like die bases installed. Jumps right on up from there

    May have a number "size" cast in the main frame. The above would be a #1. The 11 k job is a # 5 1/2

    The OPs photos do not show the press described in Post #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by john worden View Post
    Could anyone make an educated guess as to how much this machine weights? Thanks. John
    This reference puts it at around one ton. That seems like a decent estimate, but it could be somewhat heavier. 21 Ton Bliss 19C OBI Punch Press, Model: 19C, Year: N/A, Serial: N/A, Capacity: 21 Tons, Stroke:

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post

    The OPs photos do not show the press described in Post #4
    We do what we can, John. . I doubt the OP's is hugely heavier (or tinyly lighter? We don't say that, do we?).

    But if you WANT heavier, then check out the crank gear on the second page of this link: https://www.kempler.com/sites/defaul...og%20750_0.pdf

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    Thanks for the input. My guess is 2000 lbs. plus.
    A fellow plans to look at it Saturday. John

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    Mot sure I’d call that a back geared press... I’d call it a gear driven flywheel press. Backgear presses have a motor that rotates a shaft with a flywheel on one end and a gear on the other which rotates another shaft with a second flywheel at a lower rpm. Presses are rated for tonnage near the bottom of the stroke(1/16”) whereas a backgeared rating will be approx. 1/4” of the bottom. Great for forming operations.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

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    I found that it is a "Stiles" power punching press No.3 Not rated in tonnage. Probably pre teens.
    Weight is approx. 3200 #
    Adjustable stroke 1/4 to 1 inch
    1/2" stroke
    725 # flywheel
    43" x 38" floor space
    No motor specs.

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    My last post should read power punch press and 1" stroke. John

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    Made by and marked BLISS #3
    Loading can be arranged for a reasonable fee.

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    The Bliss is still available.

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    Scrap the press, but torch that bull gear off and put it on craigslist for $400 for yard art.

    I have a straight side Bliss of similar vintage that is getting patched up to run production parts for it's 96th birthday. Mine is about 50 times larger than that little guy though.

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    Sell it for cash only and NO paperwork. Those things are a liability and when someone gets hurt the lawyers look for the ownership chain to see who they can go after. Missing guards, worn clutches, etc.
    Same with repairing them, if you worked on one and there is a paper trail your getting sucked into it.

    Mr Bridgeport

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bridgeport View Post
    Sell it for cash only and NO paperwork. Those things are a liability and when someone gets hurt the lawyers look for the ownership chain to see who they can go after. Missing guards, worn clutches, etc.
    Same with repairing them, if you worked on one and there is a paper trail your getting sucked into it.

    Mr Bridgeport
    It probably has a full-revolution clutch, which is illegal. Also, that spindle is an overhung-crankpin type and the pin tends to break off if jammed, leading to unpleasantness. SCRAP...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    It probably has a full-revolution clutch, which is illegal. Also, that spindle is an overhung-crankpin type and the pin tends to break off if jammed, leading to unpleasantness. SCRAP...
    "Illegal" ???
    The course I took told us that they are still legal, but must be fully guarded.
    After setting the die, you apply the guards many times finger guards, to preclude anyone from getting any part of them into any moving parts.
    From here:
    Safeguarding Mechanical Power Presses - Rockford Systems, LLC

    "Full-revolution clutches, once activated, complete a full cycle of the slide (lowering and raising of the slide) before stopping at dead center and cannot be disengaged until the cycle is completed. So, presence-sensing devices will not work and operators must be protected during the entire press operating cycle. For example, properly applied barrier guards or two-handled trip devices that are installed at a safe distance from the hazard area may be used. Machines incorporating full-revolution clutches, such as mechanical power presses, must also incorporate a single-stroke device and anti-repeat feature. "

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    Like Digger said, absolutely nothing illegal about that clutch.

    There are more than a few ancient drop pin clutch machines still in use in companies. Even some real big companies still use them.

    My big Bliss came from Lippert. They were running it in full osha compliance when I bought it.

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    No, not illegal IF properly guarded but the reality of it is that for a lot of jobs the guards make it impossible to use. So when a job HAS to be done, guess what happens?
    It's also not unheard of for these clutch types to not disengaged if worn or out of adjustment. Double stroking or continuous stroking is common on these old worn out machines.
    I consider these types of machines as a serious liability in a shop, it's why a lot of used machinery dealers when buying out an old shop simply sent these machines straight to the scrap yard. In no way would they get involved in a sale of one of these.

    Mr Bridgeport

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bridgeport View Post
    Sell it for cash only and NO paperwork. Those things are a liability and when someone gets hurt the lawyers look for the ownership chain to see who they can go after. Missing guards, worn clutches, etc.
    Same with repairing them, if you worked on one and there is a paper trail your getting sucked into it.

    Mr Bridgeport
    Or sell it as "for parts or scrap" as a disclaimer (but I'm not a Lawyer). All down the the risk vs reward and what you have to lose. I've had a few table saws in the past that I just gave to a competent neighbor rather than take the risk of selling to a stranger for the low reward of $100.


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