Deckel FP2 and Hardinge HLVH for sale - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Too much talking, zero pictures and still this joker doesn’t know what these machines are worth, or has the slightest clue about posting a price, since he posted this add in the FOR SALE Section!
    Shit this isn’t a coffee shop, stop talking!, post some pictures and your asking price!
    The old phrase” shit or get off the pot”, sums up this entire thread!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    First, let me apologize for handling it this way. I figured I'd start a conversation that would help me discover their worth and if there was any interest. It appears there is quite a bit of interest, if only to know the price I want. The last thing I wanted to do was irritate anyone.

    I did already have a value in my head. I just didn't know if it was realistic or not.

    As for putting them on eBay with no reserve, I've found out over the last 21 years on there that that method usually does not work for higher dollar items. As you well found out. Could be timing or in many cases, it sometimes takes folks a bit of time to decide on something like that and to collect funds. I hope you didn't actually sell it for $330.

    I just found out I have 6 PMs. I'll answer those now.

    I'll get on photographing them soon too. It's a little tight in there and I will need to move some stuff around to do them justice.
    You better believe I sold it for $330 because that's the best offer I got.
    What was I supposed to do ? Have it sit in the shop unused taking up space for the rest of my life ?
    I knew a guy who was doing the same as the OP. Trying to sell a 10ee and Tree mill. Never would give a price. Just hoping somebody would offer more than what he wanted. Then the doctor gave him his death sentence. Six months to live and he spent the rest of his life trying to realize top dollar for his old worn out machines. Never sold them and then his sons got them. What a waste of someones last months.

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  4. #23
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    Alan,

    Perhaps you missed my last post. The one where I quite clearly, "got off the pot"

    Also, since you can see from my rating as "plastic" that I have not spent a lot of time around here, which would explain why I had no idea this was not a place to talk about "for sale" items. Ya know, kinda like a coffee shop. Rest assured, I won't make that mistake again.

    I will refrain from responding to your name calling with name calling. Not my style. But here's the deal. If my posts bother you it's really simple. Don't read them. I seem to remember the ability to block certain people. Maybe that's just PMs. And maybe it's some other site. In any event, if I piss you off, don't read my, "too many words".

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    Rustytool,

    To answer your question, "What was I supposed to do ? Have it sit in the shop unused taking up space for the rest of my life ?" My answer would be no, of course not. Your 99 cent starting bid tells me it was probably a 7 or 10 day auction. Instead of using the straight auction format on eBay, you could have used "Buy It Now" for the price you wanted and "Good until Sold" and also included "Make Offer". Then, every so often, you can drop the price. See how many are "watching" to see if there is any interest.

    I don't know the machine, but it's a shame if a $5000 surface grinder in working condition would only bring $330. Heck, you could even contact a machinery reseller. Again, I know nothing about the machine. Maybe it's an obsolete unit that really no one wants. Maybe it really was only worth $330.

    And the bottom line is this. If you were willing to sell it for $330 and get it out of your shop, I guess you won too.

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    Alan,

    Perhaps you missed my last post. The one where I quite clearly, "got off the pot"

    Also, since you can see from my rating as "plastic" that I have not spent a lot of time around here, which would explain why I had no idea this was not a place to talk about "for sale" items. Ya know, kinda like a coffee shop. Rest assured, I won't make that mistake again.

    I will refrain from responding to your name calling with name calling. Not my style. But here's the deal. If my posts bother you it's really simple. Don't read them. I seem to remember the ability to block certain people. Maybe that's just PMs. And maybe it's some other site. In any event, if I piss you off, don't read my, "too many words".
    You can consider yourself as having got off the pot only after

    YOU'VE POSTED SOME F'ING PICTURES

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    Post multiple clear pictures including the tags on the machines that show the specifications. The founding father of this site is an expert on those very machines if he decides to chime in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    Boy, I can already hear Jersey John now. Wait. Let me beat him to the punch. I'm an idiot!
    I'll be 75 at the end of this month. But that's no excuse. John is 100% right. I really should have done some homework. Like maybe looking at the nameplate! Or pulling out the manuals I have. Then I wouldn't have made such a fool of myself.
    Hey Ama don't make me out to be a Rottweiler I was simply frustrated by your "Non Standard" way of advertising good quality machines ... I could even have been interested in some FP2 tooling!

    I think you've got the message now ... so lets now see the REAL details (Pictures / Lists / Prices)

    Good luck

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    Rustytool,

    To answer your question, "What was I supposed to do ? Have it sit in the shop unused taking up space for the rest of my life ?" My answer would be no, of course not. Your 99 cent starting bid tells me it was probably a 7 or 10 day auction. Instead of using the straight auction format on eBay, you could have used "Buy It Now" for the price you wanted and "Good until Sold" and also included "Make Offer". Then, every so often, you can drop the price. See how many are "watching" to see if there is any interest.

    I don't know the machine, but it's a shame if a $5000 surface grinder in working condition would only bring $330. Heck, you could even contact a machinery reseller. Again, I know nothing about the machine. Maybe it's an obsolete unit that really no one wants. Maybe it really was only worth $330.

    And the bottom line is this. If you were willing to sell it for $330 and get it out of your shop, I guess you won too.
    I tried selling it on eBay for 1 year at $5000. Then six more months at $3500.
    Then I got fed up with all the cheap people.
    I did win because I would have paid someone to haul it away.

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    Wow, some really strong stuff there triumph406. I think in reference to shit or get off the pot, the former would be actually doing what you say, and posting pictures and giving a price. Getting off the pot, to me means ending this thread and basically letting me try to redeem myself by starting all over with two new threads. All details correctly listed, pictures posted, prices listed.

    But it seems this thread won't die, so let me do this.

    My plan after the trainwreck of this first post was to photograph everything, showing all details, and pointing out any flaws, video them under power and running, and re post them with two separate for sale threads. That would take a few days or more. I've certainly learned my lesson there. Don't post until I can do a good job of it.

    In the meantime, everyone who sends a PM has been getting this:

    I would prefer to post the prices and pics for everyone to see at once, especially due to the trainwreck of the first posting.

    But for now, if someone were to offer me $7500 for the Deckel and $18,200 for the Hardinge, I'd take that. I think those are fair prices. Both are in good shape. Did you see the list of attachments for the Deckel? There's a lot there. Other FP1 machines have gone for that without this much extra.

    It's certainly up for discussion.


    So now you have prices. This should satisfy most of the complaints. As for pictures, most of us here are detail oriented and don't do half assed work. I feel the same about the pictures. I now also feel the same way about posting here. I apologize once again and promise I will NEVER, NEVER do a half assed post again. I'll go for the Full Monty!

    But since there is so much pressure to do so, I will start to post some pics. I'll start with the Deckel.
    img_20200115_160721.jpgimg_20200115_171109.jpgimg_20200115_181251.jpgimg_20200115_155346.jpgimg_20200115_155221_1.jpg

  13. #30
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    Price for the deckel is absurd, and no one would offer you anything for the Hardinge since there stil isn’t any pictures of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    Alan,

    Perhaps you missed my last post. The one where I quite clearly, "got off the pot"

    Also, since you can see from my rating as "plastic" that I have not spent a lot of time around here, which would explain why I had no idea this was not a place to talk about "for sale" items. Ya know, kinda like a coffee shop. Rest assured, I won't make that mistake again.

    I will refrain from responding to your name calling with name calling. Not my style. But here's the deal. If my posts bother you it's really simple. Don't read them. I seem to remember the ability to block certain people. Maybe that's just PMs. And maybe it's some other site. In any event, if I piss you off, don't read my, "too many words".

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    Alan,

    Thank you for your input. So does that mean you won't be following this post any more?

    Why are you so angry at me?

    I tried to end this post and do it right in two new posts, but kept getting the same requests for more info. Both in the thread and in PMs. So now I've started to add that info here and you still give me heat. Maybe you just need someone to be better than. I can fill that position in so many ways. Happy to do so. But while I am new here and not up to speed and "doing it the right way", I'm doing my best to give everyone what they want. My sincerest apologies if I do not meet your expectations.

    As for the price. Fine. That's your opinion. I respect that. We'll see what others say. I hope they say it nicer though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    Alan,

    Thank you for your input. So does that mean you won't be following this post any more?

    Why are you so angry at me?

    I tried to end this post and do it right in two new posts, but kept getting the same requests for more info. Both in the thread and in PMs. So now I've started to add that info here and you still give me heat. Maybe you just need someone to be better than. I can fill that position in so many ways. Happy to do so. But while I am new here and not up to speed and "doing it the right way", I'm doing my best to give everyone what they want. My sincerest apologies if I do not meet your expectations.

    As for the price. Fine. That's your opinion. I respect that. We'll see what others say. I hope they say it nicer though.
    Your price would be for an absolutely mint unused tooled up Hardinge.

    Your Deckel might be worth $1000 on a good day judging by the pictures

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Your Deckel might be worth $1000 on a good day judging by the pictures
    More like $330

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  18. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    Wow, some really strong stuff there triumph406. I think in reference to shit or get off the pot, the former would be actually doing what you say, and posting pictures and giving a price. Getting off the pot, to me means ending this thread and basically letting me try to redeem myself by starting all over with two new threads. All details correctly listed, pictures posted, prices listed.

    But it seems this thread won't die, so let me do this.

    My plan after the trainwreck of this first post was to photograph everything, showing all details, and pointing out any flaws, video them under power and running, and re post them with two separate for sale threads. That would take a few days or more. I've certainly learned my lesson there. Don't post until I can do a good job of it.

    In the meantime, everyone who sends a PM has been getting this:

    I would prefer to post the prices and pics for everyone to see at once, especially due to the trainwreck of the first posting.

    But for now, if someone were to offer me $7500 for the Deckel and $18,200 for the Hardinge, I'd take that. I think those are fair prices. Both are in good shape. Did you see the list of attachments for the Deckel? There's a lot there. Other FP1 machines have gone for that without this much extra.

    It's certainly up for discussion.


    So now you have prices. This should satisfy most of the complaints. As for pictures, most of us here are detail oriented and don't do half assed work. I feel the same about the pictures. I now also feel the same way about posting here. I apologize once again and promise I will NEVER, NEVER do a half assed post again. I'll go for the Full Monty!

    But since there is so much pressure to do so, I will start to post some pics. I'll start with the Deckel.
    img_20200115_160721.jpgimg_20200115_171109.jpgimg_20200115_181251.jpgimg_20200115_155346.jpgimg_20200115_155221_1.jpg
    It's not an FP2.

    Different, and nowhere near as desired, animal.

    That price for an FP2 that turns out to be an FP1, makes me think the price is going to have to be cut back by a proportionate amount.

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  20. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    Why are you so angry at me?
    .
    hmmm maybe not at you, but at the approach. "Make an reasonable offer" but don't bother state what your view of reasonable is. Its BS. Do your homework before coming to the market - if you really didn't know what its worth you would end wasting legit offeror's time. The non-skanky way of asking for offers is to agree to accept the best before a date/time, auction style, but of course no one does that....its always make an offer skanky style

    When some classified ad twit responds "make an offer" to my query, I respond "I think I'll pass, it never works out with someone who doesn't know what its worth". Inevitably the response is an indignant "I know what its worth!"....well then why the F didn't you just put the price in the ad and not waste everyone's time! Grrrr

    otoh when you do post a price, there's always some rock star who say $100, thats what he paid (for something that usually goes for say $2000). They're really messing up the market for the seller by setting stupid expectations but these type have the desperate need to be seen as oh so clever. Those are the assholes. It's a dangerous place with all the skanks and Assholes about lol

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  22. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    If someone were to offer me $7500 for the Deckel and $18,200 for the Hardinge, I'd take that.
    I think you would be crazy not too.

    There is an example of each of these machines that just sold in the last two weeks on Ebay I would take a look at. The FP1 sold for under $3500, and a decent looking HLV-H with DRO for $8800.

    If I have an item to sell that I am not sure how to price I search Ebay "sold listings" and go from that. Might not like what I find out, but it is a realistic and fair indicator of market value. Any prices listed online other than verified sold prices are useless to use for determining the price that things will actually sell at. I read rustytool's original comment as saying that the "$5k" grinder actually turned out to be worth $330..not like OP read that it was actually worth $5k and sold for a $4670 discount. Two different mindsets at work there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    When some classified ad twit responds "make an offer" to my query, I respond "I think I'll pass, it never works out with someone who doesn't know what its worth". Inevitably the response is an indignant "I know what its worth!"
    Agreed, I hit delete and move on. I suppose the thinking is "I don't know what it is worth, so it technically could be worth a zillion dollars, and I don't want to look like a fool and sell it too cheap"

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    This is the conversation I was hoping for way back at the beginning about price discovery. I've learned a lot about how to interact here in the last few days. And I've apologized numerous times for my mistakes.

    Yeah, I saw that FP1 too. Had a set of collets with it. Nothing else. So since you started down this path, let me ask you this. Say my machine is only as good as this one. What do you think it would be reasonable to expect with all of this included?

    • Overarm
    • Vertical Spindle Head
    • High Speed Vertical Spindle Head
    • Slotting Head
    • Circular Table
    • Fixed Angular Table
    • Swiveling Angular Table
    • Index Head
    • Spring Collets - 1/4" to 1"
    • Operating Instructions Book with Technical Bulletins
    • Another Book with Instructions, Lubrication, Adjustments and Dismantling Operations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    hmmm maybe not at you, but at the approach. "Make an reasonable offer" but don't bother state what your view of reasonable is. Its BS. Do your homework before coming to the market - if you really didn't know what its worth you would end wasting legit offeror's time. The non-skanky way of asking for offers is to agree to accept the best before a date/time, auction style, but of course no one does that....its always make an offer skanky style

    When some classified ad twit responds "make an offer" to my query, I respond "I think I'll pass, it never works out with someone who doesn't know what its worth". Inevitably the response is an indignant "I know what its worth!"....well then why the F didn't you just put the price in the ad and not waste everyone's time! Grrrr

    otoh when you do post a price, there's always some rock star who say $100, thats what he paid (for something that usually goes for say $2000). They're really messing up the market for the seller by setting stupid expectations but these type have the desperate need to be seen as oh so clever. Those are the assholes. It's a dangerous place with all the skanks and Assholes about lol
    On that note, I recall a sign from a place I used to work: "If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport!"

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    Price for the fp1 seems a bit high as it looks a bit rough, but without seeing the accessories it is hard to say. Some home shop guy might just jump at it for 7k. I know if it was close to me(New Zealand)I would. I only know of 4 deckels in the whole country!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ama1437 View Post
    This is the conversation I was hoping for way back at the beginning about price discovery. I've learned a lot about how to interact here in the last few days. And I've apologized numerous times for my mistakes.

    Yeah, I saw that FP1 too. Had a set of collets with it. Nothing else. So since you started down this path, let me ask you this. Say my machine is only as good as this one. What do you think it would be reasonable to expect with all of this included?

    • Overarm
    • Vertical Spindle Head
    • High Speed Vertical Spindle Head
    • Slotting Head
    • Circular Table
    • Fixed Angular Table
    • Swiveling Angular Table
    • Index Head
    • Spring Collets - 1/4" to 1"
    • Operating Instructions Book with Technical Bulletins
    • Another Book with Instructions, Lubrication, Adjustments and Dismantling Operations.
    There is a Deckel sub-forum on this site with a lot of knowledgeable folks who could help you determine the FP1's value.

    If you are trying to maximize your return, often selling the accessories separately will get you the most but is more work because you have to pack and ship a bunch of different items.

    There are "For Sale" and "Items Wanted" threads that could be useful in the Deckel subforum. I know somebody just posted looking for an FP1 slotting head. If I found a deal on a fixed angle table I'd be tempted as I only have the tilting swiveling table for mine.

    Teryk

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk


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