Phase perfect DPC20 20 HP for sale
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    125
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default Phase perfect DPC20 20 HP for sale

    Hi everyone,

    20HP Phase perfect for sale, Great shape. These are very hard to find used.

    Over $5000 new, I'll take $3500 USD. Located in the Calgary, Alberta, Canada area, but I can crate and ship if the buyer wishes to cover this expense.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    125
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    No one wants a 20HP Phase perfect used?

    Whenever I have ever looked for one to save a dollar they cannot be found used!

    This is the optimal size for 100A house 220-235V single phase service, which is what most people have. I have run 40KVA machines on this size of PP with no problems, the unit can output 4x rated current for 4 seconds which is enough to take spindle loads and sudden coolant pump motor inrush and the like.

    I'll leave this a little longer and then it is off to Ebay/local advertising.

    I just wanted PM members to have first shot at it as it really is the best choice for CNC equipment.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerv View Post
    I just wanted PM members to have first shot at it
    eBay is probably your best option.

    PM members may not be so eager. We've had more than a few "shots at" the over-age-in-grade "Blue Case" Phase Perfects since the maker dropped all support. Quite some time ago.

    I didn't create those criticisms. I wish there were no such issues, actually, because I have one, DPC10, 10 HP. Bought used.

    The PM community, however, is already aware that these are a dice roll as to when, not if, the aged unobtanium components will fail.

    I have the new "white case" one already here as well. So, yes, I like Phase Perfect.

    But am also a realist about aged electronic components.

    2CW

  4. Likes digger doug, kazlx liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    125
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    Yeah I read a thread on here about issues with their PP,

    I also know of several in use that have had no problems at all, ever. I think if you stay on top of the caps like they recommend it removes significant strain on everything else. I'm not saying this is a guarantee or anything, but I have had no problems with these units.

    As far as the components failing inside, we will never know all the factors that caused the failures that were reported. What I do know is that the IGBT's, Caps and other related components on my 34 year old Fanuc spindle drives still work fine and I've had no problems so I don't think age alone is enough to write them off, besides the caps which do need attention with time.

    No way is an RPC a better solution that a PP, even if the box is blue.

    I am more than willing to show the one I'm selling under power and even taking a cut with a pretty big mill with a large facemill if it makes the buyer feel better.

    I haven't looked into this myself but I am not certain the most likely wear items in the PP are unobtainable. More likely if those wear items are not checked and maintained they can take out unsupported unobtainable parts when they fail. Perform an extensive refurb of the strained components and perhaps you reset the clock. These things can run for many years no problem as we have all seen so maybe this is what is necessary?

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerv View Post
    I am more than willing to show the one I'm selling under power and even taking a cut with a pretty big mill with a large facemill if it makes the buyer feel better.
    That should be enough of a plus that I'd suggest a You Tube with a current date should be a help to selling it, no on-site visit required.

    They are not hard to ship safely, BTW. Mine came from the Dakotas.

    But read on.....

    I haven't looked into this myself but I am not certain the most likely wear items in the PP are unobtainable. More likely if those wear items are not checked and maintained they can take out unsupported unobtainable parts when they fail. Perform an extensive refurb of the strained components and perhaps you reset the clock. These things can run for many years no problem as we have all seen so maybe this is what is necessary?
    It IS "necessary", and Phase Technologies have recognized that.

    The new 'white cased' model says right in the manual to replace the capacitors at THREE YEAR intervals.

    I hope they are being overly cautious, but the other thing that would help sell yours is the date of your most-recent installation of new capacitors on your one.

    And yes - THEY are standard ... enough. It is a PCB that gets trashed that is unobtanium.

    As to the RPC? Well the bastids are RUGGED clear to borderlne bullet-proof, so I have one.

    Also a 12 Kw + Diesel Gen set, 3-Phase capable.

    Lesseee .. belt, braces, thermal underwear printed to look like trews, body paint under, also to look like trews.. kilt, Clan Wallace Tartan ... overcoat... what have I missed?

    Ah, yazz Kevlar helmet and M2 Abrams ... just in case it rains and we gets a hailstorm...


  7. Likes pianoman8t8 liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    125
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    Yeah, I think we are on the same page.

    Even the older blue DPC unit manual does recommend replacing the one set of caps at a certain interval. I don't have it handy.

    I agree though, toss some fresh ones in, film a video with some inarguable news event mentioned early on (Such as the winner of last night's sport's game) and show a close up of the serial number followed by some real current draw. Can't do much more than that to prove things are good to go.

    I'm willing to do that, so now the question is, who is interested?

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central MA
    Posts
    1,119
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    75
    Likes (Received)
    217

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerv View Post
    Yeah, I think we are on the same page.

    Even the older blue DPC unit manual does recommend replacing the one set of caps at a certain interval. I don't have it handy.

    I agree though, toss some fresh ones in, film a video with some inarguable news event mentioned early on (Such as the winner of last night's sport's game) and show a close up of the serial number followed by some real current draw. Can't do much more than that to prove things are good to go.

    I'm willing to do that, so now the question is, who is interested?
    The suggestions to renew the capacitors and prove the unit works, seem like good ones.
    That said, though, I don't think you will have takers on PM anywhere near that price. By abandoning support without a good policy on giving a discount for previous owners, they have basically destroyed the value of a used machine. If I had a blue unit, and my business depended on it, I would be selling it now for whatever I could get and buying a more modern one that was repairable, and supported. It isn't like old Fanuc stuff, that I can get on Ebay any day for a low price. There is no third party knowledge or support. There is no documentation outside of the patent.

    I would sell it on eBay, with the disclaimer that it will arrive working, but after that, it is old used electronics, so no guarantees.

    In a electronic product where there isn't a better unit coming out every couple of years, having it last a long, long time, isn't a solution, it's a problem.

    Jon P.

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    125
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    If you use a unit for several years and it allows you to run your machines to build up some spare cash to upgrade when you need, then having one isn't a bad investment at all. With fresh capacitors there is no reason to expect these units will not last another 10+ years and it isn't like Phase technologies has limited stock of new ones. Run the cheaper one and make some money while enjoying all the benefits a PP has over other converter types. When cash allows buy another newer one, or at least have it ready in case it becomes necessary, after all, even if the newer units are repairable doesn't mean you aren't going to be down for the same length of time. Unless you have a second PP on the shelf you are done for the day at least, if not a few. Which is better? Buy the new white one now and by the time the blue one would have quit they have come out with a third version and now do not support the white one either? No way to know that will not happen.

    You can perform the recommended service to these units as mentioned previously, they are not completely non-serviceable. Many people admit to never performing this service, it really is no different than changing the oil in your car. Saying your car is poor quality because you didn't do the recommended service is putting false negative feedback on a product that might actually be excellent. How many owners of failed blue units can prove they changed their filter caps at the recommended intervals (or sooner) since new? Capacitor failure is one of the leading causes of electronics failure right across the entire range of electrical products.

    I do rely on "Blue" Phase perfects for my business and I'm not worried at all. My DPC-10 lasted so long that even if it did quit (Which it hasn't yet even for the new owner) it easily paid for itself many times over. These units are not failing frequently, they are very reliable.

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    25,739
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerv View Post
    I'm willing to do that, so now the question is, who is interested?
    Given the caps are not cheap, but not HORRIBLY costly, I would call that a good enough idea because worst-case it hangs around as your own "backup" unit until soemone gets hungrier for one that has been "Seen to" than one that has not.

    I paid roughly half your asking price with no such assurances, basically rolled the dice. As mine is also only half the power (10 HP) that part seems to scale.

    As with most things, anyone can GIVE stuff away very fast. Want a higher price, you have to wait until someone among a smaller pool of potential buyers feels a pressing need.

    My "pressing need' was enough to do the amortization math and OEM support going FORWARD, not back, then buy brand-new.

    OTOH, I ceased buying "brand new" motor vehicles WEF 1984 and am far the better for it, if only on the basis of Virginia's rapacious Personal Property Tax ON the fool things!

    2CW

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    629
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    14

    Default

    Well, this is disappointing to read. I have a blue one I need to sell after I sell off my CNC's. I didn't realize they had little value. Not to thread jack too bad, anyone know the actual cost of the caps and difficulty in changing? Good luck in your sale OP.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    65
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    35

    Default

    Phase perfect charges about 30 dollars for the caps. Depending on the size of your unit they require certain covers to be removed but pretty easy to do

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    125
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    Phase perfects do NOT have little value. They have excellent value and if you don't want to give yours away then don't, I certainly do not intend to.

    What a Phase Perfect offers is essentially the ability to have 4x the rated HP of the unit provided it is for the right machine. Other types of power, specifically power from the utility supplier, monitors peak current requirements. If you pay for three phase power you will be charged a for the peak draw you have for a certain amount of time after the peak, at least here. It doesn't matter if you only reached that peak for less than 1 second. You pay for what you have been shown to be able to draw. Non VFD supplied motors (Coolant pumps) and transformers are really bad for inrush.

    A phase perfect acts as a very good peak suppressor. Most CNC equipment, especially milling machines, do not use near what their rated power requirements are on the cabinet. They will use these values under very specific conditions such as if you start a bunch of coolant motors at the same time, rapid to a spot while accelerating the spindle to max RPM... all at once. Because of this the Phase perfect is the most optimal match to CNC mills, even if you do have utility three phase.

    I have a mill that is rated to consume more than double what I have for current coming in from the main panel. I have run this machine hard and my utility company said they monitor my draw even though they don't charge for peaks for my service. They found my peak was 1/4 what the machine nameplate calls for current draw. I am very confident that if the Phase Perfect wasn't soaking up the inrush and acceleration currents I would be right near the rated draw.

    This, as well as overall efficiency, makes the PP far superior to RPC, even if it is a "Blue" one.

    If no one wants to buy mine I'm totally comfortable running with the idea that having a spare is good insurance too, as said earlier if you have it fail it could be bad for making delivery deadlines!

    I think swapping out caps in older equipment is a great investment of time and money. I've had a separate discussion on this and there are varied opinions. One thing is certain, it only makes sense if you do it before you need to. Likely if you do your equipment has had an electrical lease on life, at least until a monitor dies. Replace that and THEN you have given most of your electrical a big boost in reliability. I'm going through a couple DMG machines now and we'll see if this proves true with them.

    If anyone does want to follow a massive DMG machine rebuild which does touch on this, check out:

    Contest for the most insane member (They will be a Maho owner)

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central MA
    Posts
    1,119
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    75
    Likes (Received)
    217

    Default

    Nobody is talking about the functional value of a PP for a shop, they are just discussing the economic value of a used one. When you buy anything used, you have to make a calculus of likelihood of failure over time vs. cost/ability to repair. That is going to be different for every person. In particular, among readers of PM, there have been a few threads about support that either have been read, or are likely to be found in a quick google search. I'd be perfectly happy for you for someone to make that computation and decide your PhasePerfect is a good deal. I didn't post to block your sale, only maybe to explain why people weren't jumping to buy it.

    Jon P.

  16. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    California, Ventura county
    Posts
    1,403
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    256
    Likes (Received)
    602

    Default

    well the blue ones are orphans and well, have a resale value
    that reflects that.
    no different then the Hitachi orphan machines.

    if you own and it's running and making parts for you it has value to you.
    but then will you pay much over scrap price when buying ?

    find an ebay sucker

    now if it was a white one there would be plenty takers.
    depending on what shipping actually costs.

  17. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Regina, Canada
    Posts
    2,331
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    Has anyone actually experienced cap failure?

  18. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Is this phase Perfect available for sale

  19. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    125
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    71

    Default

    Hey everyone. Just moved my shop to a bay and have my other DPC-20 for sale. Works amazing. I've had zero problems with my units and I've had a few. Please contact me if you would like to make an offer.

  20. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Posts
    15
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    17
    Likes (Received)
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerv View Post
    Hey everyone. Just moved my shop to a bay and have my other DPC-20 for sale. Works amazing. I've had zero problems with my units and I've had a few. Please contact me if you would like to make an offer.
    PM me with a photo please. Do you know what year it is?


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •