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Thread: Punch Presses

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    Default Punch Presses

    I have two older punch presses for sale:

    Robinson A4 Punch Press, 55 Ton
    Runs good
    $2900

    Niagara Punch Press, 75 Ton
    no Motor (was sold separately)
    $2900


    Location: Fredericksburg ,TX

    [email protected]

    Henry

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    Are these air clutches or mechanical clutches?

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    How can I add pictures here???

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    Easy from a computer, when you reply to a post some icons are above your text window, click the one of a picture (pic of a tree) and follow the prompts. I put the pics I want to show on desktop to make them easy to find.

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    They have air clutches

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    Pic test ...

    punch-large1.jpg punch-large2.jpg
    punch-large3.jpg punch-large4.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1b.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    They have air clutches
    I'm not seeing the air clutches.

    Air clutch ussually refers to an air operated clutch/brake.
    Mechanical refers to a dog clutch or "full revolution" clutch.
    I have seen air cylinder applied to throw the dog clutch in.

    Why the difference ?

    it very much changes how they are set up, and to how much guarding
    is needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I'm not seeing the air clutches.
    Neither am I. It also makes a great deal of difference what there worth. Presses with mechanical clutches are virtually worthless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Neither am I. It also makes a great deal of difference what there worth. Presses with mechanical clutches are virtually worthless.
    Well, they are not that bad, according to Rockford Safety systems, they need FULL
    guarding (more of a pain to set-up).
    As a light curtain can't stop anything once the dog clutch is tripped.

    And they claim many are still out there, comply-ing with OSHA, and doing good work.

    Note also, the one with the missing motor, punch press's use a special "d" rated or "hi slip" motor, not your off the shelf item.

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    They have an air switch (foot pedal) to activate. Thought that would make them "air clutches".

    Now I'm unsure about the clutch. I'll try to find out more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Well, they are not that bad, according to Rockford Safety systems, they need FULL
    guarding (more of a pain to set-up).
    As a light curtain can't stop anything once the dog clutch is tripped.

    And they claim many are still out there, comply-ing with OSHA, and doing good work.

    Note also, the one with the missing motor, punch press's use a special "d" rated or "hi slip" motor, not your off the shelf item.
    Doug,
    I almost always agree with you 100% but this time you are wrong. No legitimate shop will buy them because of the liability issues. If you try to sell to a dealer they will tell you to cut them up for scrap.

    These two presses are ancient, there both flat belt drive and are probably from the 1930's

    As for Rockford Safety systems there trying to sell you something. When was the last time you believed a salesman?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Doug,
    I almost always agree with you 100% but this time you are wrong. No legitimate shop will buy them because of the liability issues. If you try to sell to a dealer they will tell you to cut them up for scrap.

    These two presses are ancient, there both flat belt drive and are probably from the 1930's

    As for Rockford Safety systems there trying to sell you something. When was the last time you believed a salesman?
    We didn't buy anything from them, other than the week of training I took.

    A dog clutch style needs custom guarding, specific for that die/process
    (with a leetle slit to stick the part in)and the set-up person needs to test the finger clearance with
    a little measuring stick (they doo sell these).
    After all sealed up, needs signed off as "good to go".
    And they don't sell those.

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    The only time I ever ran a punch press was in a sheet metal shop during High school when I lied about being 18. That thing looks like it would be a multi infraction OSHA violation in 1977 and I seriously doubt regulations have become more lax 42 years later. Maybe a shop in China would buy it if you covered the rigging costs. Without a major retrofit you are looking at scrap.

    When are these people going to get booted? Guy joins just to sell and this time it is a piece of scrap that is a major safety violation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Doug,
    I almost always agree with you 100% but this time you are wrong. No legitimate shop will buy them because of the liability issues. If you try to sell to a dealer they will tell you to cut them up for scrap.

    These two presses are ancient, there both flat belt drive and are probably from the 1930's

    As for Rockford Safety systems there trying to sell you something. When was the last time you believed a salesman?
    I bought my 300 ton 9 inch stroke Bliss from Zieman trailers a few years ago. It is 100% Osha compliant and has a mechanical clutch.

    I believe what you are saying is true to an extent with smaller presses, but there's a point where the press is large enough or specialized enough that the fact it's a century old and somewhat unsafe without training and guarding can be overlooked.

    The presses in this thread are pre-WWII small commodity presses and worth less than the current $110 a ton scrap price. And nobody with a clue about presses would touch those with a ten foot pole.

    I'm surprised those are still around. Seen a lot of nice air clutch machines that size scrapped in the past decade.

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    Clutch update:

    OK, I just got back from the machine shop.
    I was wrong, the big press is pneumatic up to the air cylinder actuator, from there its mechanic.
    The little press has a mechanical clutch all the way.

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    So, do I junk them or is there still some useful life for these??

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    You have three things against you #1, they will need to be retrofitted with safety guards and mechanisms. OSHA rules used to dictate the presses cannot be operated unless both hands are clear of the work area, that was in the late 70's when I last worked around punch presses, I doubt those have changed. #2 they are are incomplete, they are either missing motors or set-up to be run on a line shaft. #3 poor weight to value ratio, even if you sold them at scrap price rigging costs won't be cheap. They are worth $160 a ton delivered to a scrap yard or free to a scrapper who will haul them.

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    Maybe they could be parts to keep someone elses machines running?

    On a side note, does a one man shop without employees need to care about osha?

    I have heard of blacksmiths using punch presses as a power hammer, that might be worth exploring.

    Here is a guy who made one act similar to a flypress:
    YouTube


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    On a side note, does a one man shop without employees need to care about osha?
    Osha rules do not apply to one man shops that do not have employees. That being true what one man army is going have an operation that needs a huge manual punch press? That item is a fit for making sheet metal components that are assembled together, something done assembly line style with multiple employees. Such an old monster would have been found in a range hood manufacturing shop where I worked in High School, that was about a 10 man operation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    So, do I junk them or is there still some useful life for these??
    You need to junk them. Not only do you need to junk them you need to do it in a manner that nobody can make a press out of them ever. That means taking an oxygen lance to them and cutting the frame in two, or tearing them apart and taking the the loose parts in one load and then in a week or two taking the frames in.

    I can't believe you people that think safety doesn't have any place in a one man shop. Safety is much more important in a one man shop than in a multi man shop because your working alone. You lose a hand (or two) in a punch press accident your going to bleed out before help arrives. That is if you don't lose enough blood to pass out before you can get to the phone.


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