Purchase advice. 8x36 Enco mill for $2300.
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  1. #1
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    Default Purchase advice. 8x36 Enco mill for $2300.

    I found an Enco 8x36 mill for $2600. I talked to the seller and he is willing to come down to $2300. Original owner, circa 1994, great shape, comes with power X feed, Chinese vice and a few R8 collets. etc. Here are the pics... what do you guys think?

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    00u0u_lrjuxgrropb_600x450.jpg

    00909_p9ieajtrg5_1200x900.jpg

    My gut feeling is it is a good deal... and a good size for my shop. I don't have room for a full size mill.

    Enco 100-1525 = Grizzly G6760 = Jet JVM-836. Parts are said to be interchangeable.


    Here are the Jet 836 specs... the Enco "Might" be 10 speed but might be 5 speed. Enco weight is reported to be 1600lbs - 1800lbs.

    Specifications

    Style (Type) Step Pulley R8
    Powerfeed X-Axis
    Spindle Taper (In. x TPI) R-8
    Table Size (L x W) (In.) 7-7/8 x 35-3/4
    Quill Diameter (In.) 3-3/8
    Number of Spindle Speeds 5
    Range of Spindle Speeds (RPM) 240 - 1,550
    Quill Down Feed Rates (IPR) .0015 - .003 - .006
    Spindle Travel (In.) 5
    Head Movement (Deg.) 90 R & L
    Max Distance Spindle to Table (In.) 13-3/4
    Distance Spindle to Column (Max.) (In.) 15-3/4
    Distance Spindle to Column (Min.) (In.) 5-1/4
    Collet Capacity 1/8 - 7/8
    Table Longitudinal Travel (In.) 22-1/4
    Table Longitudinal Travel With Powerfeed (In.) 18
    Table Cross Travel (In.) 9-1/2
    T-Slots Number and Size (In.) 3 and 5/8
    T-Slot Centers (In.) 2-1/2
    Work Table Weight Capacity (Lbs.) 500
    Travel of Knee (In.) 14
    Travel of Ram (In.) 10-1/2
    Motor (HP) 1-1/2 HP, 115/230V, 1Ph
    Overall Dimensions (L x W x H) (In.) 55 x 52 x 78
    Weight (Lbs.) 1,617

  2. #2
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    Sounds like you have already convinced to buy. You should complete the purchase. Just make sure that you bring it home safely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Nelson View Post
    Sounds like you have already convinced to buy. You should complete the purchase. Just make sure that you bring it home safely.
    Yes... just need some reassurance I am not missing something or completely off my rocker.

    It has 1 shot lube but internet reports say the gear in the Knee is not lubed... so be sure to oil the gear regularly.

    I forgot to ask if it was 1ph or 3ph... I would prefer 3ph. Motor looks to be 3ph to me.

    One of the complaints about these 8x36 Mills is the limited speed range. A VFD would help with the speed range. Range of Spindle Speeds (RPM) 240 - 1,550

    When I move a Radial Arm Saw I always lower the motor down on blocks so the weight of the motor is supported by the table... this saves the slide ways from being ruined. I know to use a web strap and loop it under the ram... anything else to be aware of when moving a mill? .besides "watch my toes".

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    A 1994 Mill has a warranty???

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve45 View Post
    A 1994 Mill has a warranty???
    Warranty? The first set of stats I posted were from a dealers website and I realized they were for a 9 x 42. I changed them to the stats for the 8x36. The original stats must have listed a warranty...

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    Not sure but I think the machine in the pictures lacks a backgear. May or may not matter for your needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strokersix View Post
    Not sure but I think the machine in the pictures lacks a backgear. May or may not matter for your needs.
    A back gear changes the milling head into a lower gearing... like and under drive? I have found mention of 5 speed models and 10 speed models... I would imagine the difference would be if the head has a back gear or not?

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    No power down feed and no back gear would be a deal breaker for me at that price.

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    The specs say power downfeed, but I sure don't see it in the pics. Also the head only kicks side to side. Low top speed, no DRO, doesn't look like a real servo power feed, short travels.

    Not my cup of tea. If it fits the intended use, okay- but it's not nearly as versatile as a real BP.

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    If you were a customer and called to ask if it was a good deal, we would tell you no as soon as you said Enco. Its obsolete, MSC BARELY supports them. Don't count on Jet for any sort of parts, they make models obsolete quicker than it gets delivered to you.

    There are no pics of the ways, so its hard to say if its truly in great shape. Any rock in it? Backlash? I see there possibly at one time was a powerfeed on the Y axis (not sure why else the screw would stick out that far and have such a huge spacer on it) and it looks like the left handle is gone.

    Jon
    H&W Machine Repair

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    It will probably make big pieces of metal into small pieces of metal, but I would rather spend that money on a short table short knee 50 year old v ram bridgeport that will hold its value and be repairable.

    Enco is what it is, but if you cannot buy a replacement part a minor repair becomes a project

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    Pile of crap. Had one of the same vintage a friend stored it in my shop, then I bought it to use as a dedicated machine in a machining cell. Parts fell off of it in the middle of the night when no one was around, that is a true story. This was 2006 when a 1994 Enco was a pile of crap. I would not give $500 for one if it looked brand new. Some low end Chinese products are junk right out of the box an Enco Mill is one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by true temper View Post
    No power down feed and no back gear would be a deal breaker for me at that price.
    I agree. No back gear for slower work with more torque and no power down which is great for smaller drills and boring, would be a non-starter for me. It appears to be in good condition, but without those features which are generally standard on most milling machines, $2,300 is more than all the money.

    I would slow down and re-double a search for a Bridgeport, Sharp, Webb, etc. with all of the features .

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    I wouldn't call it a good deal. I bought an MSC b-port clone from the original owner, around the same vintage, for $1,200, with a VFD and power quill and backgear, with very light use.

    That being said, I agree, these machines aren't great. Mine has been fine for a glorified drill press and when I need to do small cutter work with higher spindle than my K&T, but I'm swapping out for a Lagun, that needs work, but will be 10x the machine after.


    That being said, if all you need it for is knifemaker type work (slotting guards, facing, etc), or soft metals/plastic, and it's this or a grizzly bench mill, then yeah, this'll be a decent option, although price is still excessive.

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    I think that is at best a $1500 machine. Lack of back gear, power down feed, small table size, off brand, step pulley, questionable parts and service.

    Tom

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    You say you don't have room, but is that really significantly smaller than a Bridgeport? It doesn't really look it and it only weighs ~500lbs less. Around here thats about what a decent Bridgeport would go for. Seems like a Bridgeport would be alot more useful, hold its value better, and be easier to repair if a problem arises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar36 View Post
    You say you don't have room, but is that really significantly smaller than a Bridgeport? It doesn't really look it and it only weighs ~500lbs less. Around here thats about what a decent Bridgeport would go for. Seems like a Bridgeport would be alot more useful, hold its value better, and be easier to repair if a problem arises.
    I have been watching local adds for mills for years here in the Pacific North West. Genuine Bridgeports are pretty rare and when they do come up they are quite worn. I am an amateur machinist at best... and definitely don't have the skills to pull acceptable results out of a worn mill... I have tried. I currently have a pretty worn 8 x 30 Taiwanese knee mill. It took two days of cutting before I came up with an acceptable dove tail to hold the rear sights on my 1911 slide. Then I worried about whether I could actually repeat the cut in the slide itself. Of course most of that was do to learning... but the slop in the old 8 x 30 was very frustrating!

    I do have a bit of experience rebuilding machines... but all 50+ year old wood working tools. Redstar RAS, Powermatic 71 table saw. Powermatic 65 table saw. Walker Turner RAS. Walker turner shaper. Davis and Wells horizontal boring machine. Powermatic belt disc sander.. etc. and I actually enjoyed the process. But I am looking for a mill that I can just use and get acceptable results. A mill that is tight enough that I know when I get crappy results the problem is me and not the mill. I really want a mill... not another project!

    I do really appreciate the comments about the power quill feed and the head tilt and the back gear. If the mill isn't as pristine as I am hoping and not as tight as I want those missing features will easily push me out of buying the mill.

    I was looking for good feedback and definitely received it! I appreciate all the replies! I am going to look at the mill this evening, I will post the results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguar36 View Post
    You say you don't have room, but is that really significantly smaller than a Bridgeport? It doesn't really look it and it only weighs ~500lbs less. Around here thats about what a decent Bridgeport would go for. Seems like a Bridgeport would be alot more useful, hold its value better, and be easier to repair if a problem arises.
    I agree, people seem to really think these mills take up significantly less space than a "normal" sized bp or similar, but they mostly only save height, and a few inches on either side with the table at extreme travel. The actual working envelope is basically the same IMO.

    Though the same could be said for a real mill like a K&T, Cinci, VN, etc, up to the no 2 size class. My K&T No 2 Vert, takes the same shop space as my BPort clones. Yeah, it's a little tighter if I'm working at the extreme length of the table travel with the hand wheel, which is rare.

    Almost any of them will sit nicely in any square corner of a shop. However, the K&T for example, is MUCH shorter than a bport style mill, even the smaller ones. Although, yes, it is a lot heavier (good thing, except when moving it, but a roll-back doesn't seem to give a shit).

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    It's a cut wizz-bang, but I'd let someone else have it. Get a baby Gorton.

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    After taking a further look at the pictures of your machine, It looks pretty pristine to me. Nothing appears to be beat up. The head is mounted on a sturdy ram, and can tilt. You can also work on a workpiece that sits on the floor. You will look hard to find a Bridgeport that is not clapped out. You could try to get the seller to reduce the price further. Just my thoughts.


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