Son of Fadals for sale (Nor. Cal.)

I'm back...with two Fadals for sale. For general information on who we are, remarks about machine condition, etc. please see the link below. Will repeat contact info at end of this post.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...anted/fadals-sale-northern-california-354655/

Fadal Ser#9809802 1998 3016: Most of the data for this machine, including pics is available at the above mentioned link, posts#11,12,13. I have the survey available that was done by our Fadal tech; will email to interested party(s). Asking $11,000.00.

Fadal Ser#9506133 1995 4020HT: On hours = ~25,000 & Run hours = ~8500. We are having this machine surveyed (hopefully) this week. Machine just finished up a job, so no known problems, but will make any repairs suggested by the survey. Will make results available to anyone interested. Pics will show optioning list inside pendant. Assuming no surprises, we'll be asking $13,000-$14,000 depending on survey results.

For additional questions, discuss pricing, etc. please contact Don Francis (shop foreman)at [email protected] or Chris Vega (lead programmer/asst. foreman) at [email protected] or phone 415-883-0128.

Lastly, we are not interested in conducting bidding wars or applying pressure. There have been some inquiries on these machines, but nothing concrete. Once price/terms are agreed on it will go to that party.

Too many pics for one post; more pics in next post.

Thanks for looking.

Fred

Here are remainder of 4020 pics:

Fred

The survey of the 4020HT resulted in two problem areas:

1) Too much backlash - end result is we are having thrust bearings replaced on all three axes to address this.

2) The table is not flat. Off 0.006 over full travel in X and 0.003 over full travel in Y. It is thought this is the result of wear over its 24yrs of service. The best solution is to have the table removed and reground; this runs about $6K-$7K - suffice to say, this is not an economical remedy. We have not seen problems because we use subplates that are surfaced or flycut in the machine prior to adding other fixtures. And, on those occasions where we have direct mounted vises, the parts are small enough that they remain in tolerance.

A search here on PM or Google will turn up multiple solutions to this problem, from the above mentioned subplates, to flycutting the table itself, etc. We've already made the mental adjustment to our sales expectations - we're knocking the asking down to $12,000.00.

Lastly, drawbar pressure measured 700; spec range is 700-1000. We're going to have the Bellville washers replaced to improve the drawbar figure.

Thanks.

Fred

We seem to have an extremely honest seller, quite refreshing in this day and age.

Thrust bearings have been replaced on all axes of the 4020HT. Also, the Bellville washers have been replaced; drawbar pull is now 1300 (think I mis-quoted the range as 700-1000; seems to vary depending on info source, but 1300 is good).

We took a look at the box way bearing surfaces. Some wear as might be expected but very smooth to the touch. There looks to be some visible pitting at the home position, but ways feel smooth.

The X axis motor seems bit noisier than the others, but AC drives aren't known for being quiet. Overall tech seems to think machine is in good condition taking into account the earlier remarks about the table flatness. If we sink much more into this puppy, would have to sell as factory rebuild

So, we're sticking with an asking of $12,000.00 but willing to discuss/negotiate.

We would like to sell the 3016 and 4020 to add to the piggy bank for next purchase. However, we are also open to donating one of the machines to a high school, junior college, or other educational institution. If you, or someone you know, might be interested in such a donation, please contact us. We will need documentation that institution is accredited/legitimate. We will do the fair market analysis to establish a figure for our and donee's accounting purposes. What we will not do is finance the rigging/transport - this is the responsibility of the donee. We will prep the machines for transport and recommend riggers, but arrangements are up to the donee. Also, we have some vises in good condition, and used, but functional tool holders that can be added to the package. Call or email Don Francis([email protected]) or Chris Vega([email protected]), 415-883-0128, or write to:

Sutter Instrument Company / 1 Digital Drive / Novato, CA 94949 / Attn: Don, Chris V., or Fred

Last but not least, Dualkit - thanks for your remarks, greatly appreciated by everyone here. Best.

Fred

Wanted to bump this thread as the two machines are still available. Seems Thanksgiving to New Years is not the time to be listing equipment.

Both are still hooked up and can be demonstrated. We will be glad to entertain any reasonable offers. One update: we do not have a survey for the 4020 - when we did the initial survey and found the various problems mentioned above, we addressed those issues as detailed in earlier posts. We decided not to invest in a second survey, but glad to have buyer or their agent come in and survey/test prior to finalizing an offer. Thanks.

Fred

Freds said:

We took a look at the box way bearing surfaces. Some wear as might be expected but very smooth to the touch. There looks to be some visible pitting at the home position, but ways feel smooth.
Fred

Click to expand...

The pitting at home position is very typical, most of the machines I've looked seem to have some pitting.

We're lowering our asking for the 3016 and 4020 to $10,000.00 and $11,000.00 respectively. However, you never know what you might talk us into

triumph406, thanks for confirming.

Fred

The table being low at one end suggests the turcite is worn 0.006" more towards one end than the other.

My understanding is that turcite replacement is a fairly common repair on these machines.

Mine has hardened iron ways, so no turcite. In some ways that's more appealing and less so in others.

That said, you can put turcite on hard way tables

Hi Perry,

Thanks for that. We also, wondered if a 0.001" of wear on turcite in Y-axis (say left bearing surface vs. right) would translate into 0.003-0.004" of slope in X. Ultimately, if someone talks us into a low price and addresses the slope issue, they'd get good value in a nice, larger format machine.

Fred

The Y ways are 12-14 inches apart IIRC, so 0.001 wear on one way would result in 0.001 if you swept an indicator.

If you keep the indicator stationary and move the table and see 0.006 difference, then the wear is in the table.

Perry,

Right...my 3D sensibilities have definitely eroded with age

Fred

Just want to close out this thread. The 3016 and 4020 have sold. Want to thank everyone who visited, made contributing comments, and especially those who purchased the machines; hope they serve you well.

Fred

Thanks, Fred. The Kurt vises have been a great addition to the school's robotics program.

I'm the buyer of the 4020 and would like to give a compliment and thanks to Freds and his folks. They were very diligent and patient throughout the sale, providing loads of documentation and answering all of my questions quickly.

I'd not hesitate to deal with them again!

-Cole

Edit- All wrapped up, ready for the rigger to arrive.

Follow up message-

Today I received my 4020 and what a gem. The table is immaculate, so are the ways. Thanks to lots of coordination between all parties the move went without a single issue.

If you're ever considering dealing with Fred or any others Sutter, they are assuredly good to go.

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