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Takisawa Mac v4 (Mill), TC-2 (Lathe), TW-20 (Lathe), And Supermax Max 3

Pmk222

Plastic
Joined
Oct 26, 2019
Location
Albany
The machines listed in the title are the four CNC machines we own. The shop my boss and I work at has a long and confusing story, long story short: there is a security interest against several of the machines and we are wanting to sell these machines to pay off the security interest, get out from underneath the owner of the equipment, and save the shop. The idea is to sell all the equipment we can live without and finance newer equipment that doesn't have said security interest. The shop is in pretty dire need to sell this equipment but we are not entirely sure what the equipment it worth. We tried contacting a company that buys used equipment and they didn't want anything of ours due to its age. I've read the rules and I didn't see anything that said we had to have a listed price, please let me know if we do need one.

All this equipment works but nothing is without fault. I'm going to list each machine with a bit of information about it, we don't have all the details as neither my boss nor I have been with the company as long as the machines have.

Takisawa Mac V4
This mill is either a 84 or 85. It has a cartridge with "Mac V5 1985" written on it, plugged into the controller. Our shop bought this machine brand new for $80,000. This is the machine that has the highest tolerances, smoothest operation, and is the most capable. The biggest problem with this machine is that even with the most memory upgrades, it can't hold a lot of large programs and still has the smallest amount of available memory. Another problem is that the hand wheel has some kind of problem that causes the machine to "jump" when you rotate it, we use the jog function to get around this and we know it's not the wheel itself because we have swapped it with a known good one and the problem persisted. This machine also has a reeless, high speed, paper tape reader on the side. Our programs were originally typed on a Teletype 33ASR and read into the reader on this machine.
As of writing this the operating hours are: 17030H 01M and the cutting time is: 11598H 15M. I get the feeling those are not completely accurate but the machine is still in excellent condition.
This machine has cut steel, tool steel, stainless, cast iron, brass, plastic, and aluminum since I started working here in 2018.
As a side note, this is the machine we are the most sad to see go. It's in great condition and has very few problems. And, as a second side note, this machine has made parts for the Howard Hughes Aircraft Company as we used to be an R&D facility for Hughes.

Takisawa TC-2 Lathe
This lathe is from 87. This machine has a problem with holding its X home position. As long as you don't turn off the power, it won't have a problem. We aren't entirely sure what the cause of this is. We home the machine when we start it, set everything up with that home position, and send it to a safe distance for doing tool changes. We just ran a test to see if it has to do with sending the machine home without power cycling and it didn't have the same problem. This means that if you are running 1,000 parts you are going to want to run all of them without turn the machine off or you will have to reset a few things.
As far as I was able to tell, this machine doesn't have any way to tell what the hours are.
This machine has cut steel, cast iron, stainless, brass, plastic, and aluminum since I started working here.

Takisawa TW-20 Lathe
This Lathe is a bit nicer than the other, it has a bar feeder and a chip conveyor. It's from 95. The bar feeder has a 12 foot long and 2 inch diameter capacity. The bar feeder is a hydraulic driven unit that we use as a backer and we feed against the turret, it can not feed to a specific length like a servo unit could. The chip conveyor is not Takisawa branded and I'm not certain if the machine would be able to turn it on and off as we use the buttons on the side of the unit to control it, it does connect to the machine through a cable. The biggest problem with this machine is that it has a faulty spindle drive amplifier. This means that it can't handle super high torque. specifically, it can't handle super heavy cuts or use a tap (it also won't stop quickly, there is no braking action for the spindle so it has to spool down). I believe it can do everything else and I know it can do threading (just, not with a tap like I said).
The bar feeder is about 18 foot long.
As of writing this, the run time is 191H 42M.
This lathe has cut steel, stainless, tool steel, brass, and aluminum since I started working here.
As a side note, this machine has also made parts for the Howard Hughes company. In fact, we do still use it to bar feed a specific Hughes part made from brass.

Supermax Max3 Mill
This mill is from 94 but the Fanuc controller is from 89. This machine, compared to the Takisawa, has a much lower end controller. There are a lot of features missing that a newer machine would have. But, this is the machine that we use more often. It seems like this machine can do rigid tapping but I've never tried and I was always told it can't (I just think they were setting it up wrong or had the wrong value in the code). There is something wrong with the spindle, we generally run this machine at or under 1,000 RPM because it tends to sound pretty bad otherwise. That being said, yesterday I ran it at 2,000 RPM without it sounding like it was going to take flight into orbit. The version of this machine we have is the kind without a full enclosure. We are the second owners of this machine, it was originally bought by a company making wooden signs and our company bought it from them. This machine has a spot for a paper tape reader to go but it doesn't actually have one installed (it doesn't look like it ever did, either).
As of writing this, the run time is 555H 51M,
This mill has cut steel, tool steel, cast iron, stainless, brass, aluminum, and some copper since I started working here.



We have most, if not all, the manuals for these machines as well as the advertisement brochure for the Supermax. On top of that, while each machine has problems, the problems are all fixable with a little time, effort, money, and/or understanding of the problem. Our shop has little of each to spare as we fight to keep the company going. We are willing to help load the machines as best as we can but the buyer is going to have to be responsible for the actual transport/shipping of the equipment.

I'm going to work on getting pictures of each machine and I'll post a link to wherever I end up uploading them to, for now we needed to get this information out there as soon as possible.



Edit: Here is a link to the pictures of the machines, the main album is a bit of a mess and isn't entirely in order. The sub folders are properly sorted and labeled for each machine.

Modern Machine Equipment by Pmk2222 | Photobucket
 
The machines listed in the title are the four CNC machines we own. The shop my boss and I work at has a long and confusing story, long story short: there is a security interest against several of the machines and we are wanting to sell these machines to pay off the security interest, get out from underneath the owner of the equipment, and save the shop. The idea is to sell all the equipment we can live without and finance newer equipment that doesn't have said security interest. The shop is in pretty dire need to sell this equipment but we are not entirely sure what the equipment it worth. We tried contacting a company that buys used equipment and they didn't want anything of ours due to its age. I've read the rules and I didn't see anything that said we had to have a listed price, please let me know if we do need one.

All this equipment works but nothing is without fault. I'm going to list each machine with a bit of information about it, we don't have all the details as neither my boss nor I have been with the company as long as the machines have.

Takisawa Mac V4
This mill is either a 84 or 85. It has a cartridge with "Mac V5 1985" written on it, plugged into the controller. Our shop bought this machine brand new for $80,000. This is the machine that has the highest tolerances, smoothest operation, and is the most capable. The biggest problem with this machine is that even with the most memory upgrades, it can't hold a lot of large programs and still has the smallest amount of available memory. Another problem is that the hand wheel has some kind of problem that causes the machine to "jump" when you rotate it, we use the jog function to get around this and we know it's not the wheel itself because we have swapped it with a known good one and the problem persisted. This machine also has a reeless, high speed, paper tape reader on the side. Our programs were originally typed on a Teletype 33ASR and read into the reader on this machine.
As of writing this the operating hours are: 17030H 01M and the cutting time is: 11598H 15M. I get the feeling those are not completely accurate but the machine is still in excellent condition.
This machine has cut steel, tool steel, stainless, cast iron, brass, plastic, and aluminum since I started working here in 2018.
As a side note, this is the machine we are the most sad to see go. It's in great condition and has very few problems. And, as a second side note, this machine has made parts for the Howard Hughes Aircraft Company as we used to be an R&D facility for Hughes.

Takisawa TC-2 Lathe
This lathe is from 87. This machine has a problem with holding its X home position. As long as you don't turn off the power, it won't have a problem. We aren't entirely sure what the cause of this is. We home the machine when we start it, set everything up with that home position, and send it to a safe distance for doing tool changes. We just ran a test to see if it has to do with sending the machine home without power cycling and it didn't have the same problem. This means that if you are running 1,000 parts you are going to want to run all of them without turn the machine off or you will have to reset a few things.
As far as I was able to tell, this machine doesn't have any way to tell what the hours are.
This machine has cut steel, cast iron, stainless, brass, plastic, and aluminum since I started working here.

Takisawa TW-20 Lathe
This Lathe is a bit nicer than the other, it has a bar feeder and a chip conveyor. It's from 95. The bar feeder has a 12 foot long and 2 inch diameter capacity. The bar feeder is a hydraulic driven unit that we use as a backer and we feed against the turret, it can not feed to a specific length like a servo unit could. The chip conveyor is not Takisawa branded and I'm not certain if the machine would be able to turn it on and off as we use the buttons on the side of the unit to control it, it does connect to the machine through a cable. The biggest problem with this machine is that it has a faulty spindle drive amplifier. This means that it can't handle super high torque. specifically, it can't handle super heavy cuts or use a tap (it also won't stop quickly, there is no braking action for the spindle so it has to spool down). I believe it can do everything else and I know it can do threading (just, not with a tap like I said).
The bar feeder is about 18 foot long.
As of writing this, the run time is 191H 42M.
This lathe has cut steel, stainless, tool steel, brass, and aluminum since I started working here.
As a side note, this machine has also made parts for the Howard Hughes company. In fact, we do still use it to bar feed a specific Hughes part made from brass.

Supermax Max3 Mill
This mill is from 94 but the Fanuc controller is from 89. This machine, compared to the Takisawa, has a much lower end controller. There are a lot of features missing that a newer machine would have. But, this is the machine that we use more often. It seems like this machine can do rigid tapping but I've never tried and I was always told it can't (I just think they were setting it up wrong or had the wrong value in the code). There is something wrong with the spindle, we generally run this machine at or under 1,000 RPM because it tends to sound pretty bad otherwise. That being said, yesterday I ran it at 2,000 RPM without it sounding like it was going to take flight into orbit. The version of this machine we have is the kind without a full enclosure. We are the second owners of this machine, it was originally bought by a company making wooden signs and our company bought it from them. This machine has a spot for a paper tape reader to go but it doesn't actually have one installed (it doesn't look like it ever did, either).
As of writing this, the run time is 555H 51M,
This mill has cut steel, tool steel, cast iron, stainless, brass, aluminum, and some copper since I started working here.



We have most, if not all, the manuals for these machines as well as the advertisement brochure for the Supermax. On top of that, while each machine has problems, the problems are all fixable with a little time, effort, money, and/or understanding of the problem. Our shop has little of each to spare as we fight to keep the company going. We are willing to help load the machines as best as we can but the buyer is going to have to be responsible for the actual transport/shipping of the equipment.

I'm going to work on getting pictures of each machine and I'll post a link to wherever I end up uploading them to, for now we needed to get this information out there as soon as possible.



Edit: Here is a link to the pictures of the machines, the main album is a bit of a mess and isn't entirely in order. The sub folders are properly sorted and labeled for each machine.

Modern Machine Equipment by Pmk2222 | Photobucket

Prices ?

And will you sign a document stating you guarantee free & clear title to these machines ?
 
We really aren't sure what they are worth. My boss would know better than myself but I believe we would have to get the owner to agree to the price before sale. If he agreed, I'm sure we'd include a bill of sale stating that anyone to buy this equipment wouldn't be liable for anything.
 
We really aren't sure what they are worth. My boss would know better than myself but I believe we would have to get the owner to agree to the price before sale. If he agreed, I'm sure we'd include a bill of sale stating that anyone to buy this equipment wouldn't be liable for anything.

If your not willing to nail these items down, I really think E-Bay is a much better
place to sell these.

Much less bother answering the phone/e-mails from questioning people.
 
Considering everything you have described and the "security issues" I doubt you will have much interest. A person is also going to want to negotiate directly with the owner of the machines not someone without the authority to sell them. If you and your boss have used the machines as collateral I think you are going to be very disappointed in what the machines are now worth. 35 year old CNCs especially ones with problems are usually worth a couple thousand dollars and that is it. Your newest machine has issues with what is probably it's most expensive component and it is still 25 years old. Sorry about the negativity, just an honest assessment.
 
How do you sell something you don’t own free and clear?, it’s not like a house that the lien process is usually pretty black and white(2nd mortgage, etc), ie the lawyers ensure the liens get settled in the transaction


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
I know a guy that sold his machine shop on contract (pretty good size shop) and moved to the opposite corner of the state. When the payments stopped he showed up to find the guy was selling off the machines to make the payments.

Your machines are probably not worth the expense to move them. Old and broken are pretty big coffin nails.

Those Takisawa Mac machines seem to be very common in the NW and perpetually for sale. A friend got a couple of them in a package deal and took him years to sell them, or basically get somebody to take them.
 
Your machines are probably not worth the expense to move them. Old and broken are pretty big coffin nails.

I was king of shocked what I got parting out a couple non running machines both circa 1993 & 1995. They did have popular controllers, Yasnac MX3 and Fanuc 16T. Considering where I live and the only local riggers charge a fortune I probably could not have got more than $3k for the pair if that. I parted them out on E-bay and in about a year I got darn near $10k less E-bay fees and that was mostly for the electronics. I knew what was wrong with them so I knew what I was selling was in good shape. After 1 year I hauled the carcasses to the scrap yard. Fortunately they disassembled down to the base castings that were 1500# each so I moved them on a couple flat dollies and an engine hoist.
 
I was king of shocked what I got parting out a couple non running machines both circa 1993 & 1995. They did have popular controllers, Yasnac MX3 and Fanuc 16T. Considering where I live and the only local riggers charge a fortune I probably could not have got more than $3k for the pair if that. I parted them out on E-bay and in about a year I got darn near $10k less E-bay fees and that was mostly for the electronics. I knew what was wrong with them so I knew what I was selling was in good shape. After 1 year I hauled the carcasses to the scrap yard. Fortunately they disassembled down to the base castings that were 1500# each so I moved them on a couple flat dollies and an engine hoist.

I know a guy that does that near me. I like to fix/clean and sell them whole. Not much for the space and effort to part something out myself. If I find a junker CNC I pass it on to him.
 
UCC-1 Financing Statement

Hi:
There is a good chance that a UCC-1 Financing Statement was filed. This is a "legal lien" that must be released by the "owner" before the machine is clear to sell. If you are financing the bank will require you to prove it is lien free. Not butting in, just something to consider. I got bit by this once.
George
 
Just search for say the Supermax on Ebay, and then select -Sold Listings-, then possibly A)be dissapointed in value B)Boss will think they are worth more even if they are clearly not C) A&B pass fine and you can come back with a price.

People often have fair honest reasons to not know value and ask for offers...but it is a huge waste of time for anyone who is serious about buying. I would Craigslist post them since they sound like older/lower value machines that won't be worth shipping usually.
 








 
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