Wanted: Cincinnati Milicron #2 Tool and Cutter Grinder and all attachments

Gentlemen, I was consdering a cylindrical grinder but then realized a tool and cutter grinder would give me the same and more, so after a bit of research I settled on what I think I want:

I wish to purchase a Cincinnati-Milicron (model MT) #2 Universal (not Plain) Tool and Cutter Grinder with some or all of the following attachments:

- Tilting head (Pretty sure I want this, but perhaps you can convince me otherwise)
- As many of the original little tools (index finger, fixed/retractable ends, etc.) as possible
- Universal Working Head for grinding endmills, etc.
- Indexing attachment for grinding endmills, reamers, shell mills, chamfer mills, etc. (same as universal head?)
- Cylindrical grinding attachment (i.e. the motor-driven attachment that can take 3- and 4-jaw chucks)
- Radius attachment for milling ball end mills, radius cutters, lolliops, whatever.
- Internal Grinding attachment
- Will consider other attachments such as, for example, sharpening saws
- Bonus: Mechanically driven table

Disclosure #1: I don't know the difference between the plain and unversal except the universal probably has the tilting head and "universal" workhead, and possibly more attachments. Correct me if I've missed something or incorrectly included something.

Disclosure #2: Perhaps I might consider other types of machines? I don't know what all out there is comparable to a Cincinnati #2, so enlighten me.

You should be located within a few hours' drive of Toronto. Quebec is probably too far unless your machine is evidently in good condition and warrants no inspection. Local is preferred, but driving is not out of the question. If the border were open, I'd drive as far as Rochester, NY. Maybe further. I've gone as far as CT.

If your machine has issues, please be upfront about them - I am willing to fix a machine that needs TLC.

This should be pretty easy the basic design goes back to the early 1930's I have two and no I don't wish to sell either. The undermotor drives are smoother than the powered tilting heads. I learned on the under motor drive so I really don't give it too much thought.... more typically it comes down to what is bolted up to what... they really are Lego machines

Be aware however that they are really light duty machines in spite of weighing 2200 pounds and being the size of a small domestic washing machine. And beyond that they don't have resolution to tenths. I wouldn't want to be without either of my Cincy's but they're not replacements for an OD/ID or a surface grinder.

Word of wisdom... if you buy one block up the table, pull the balls and ball cages and slip in some long 0.75 inch delrin rods in there place, before you move it. IF you travel with the balls in place you'll brinell the balls and worse yet the races. There are cut out's in the base of the machine to sling them from, don't over think this, sling them as intended. And don't forget to secure the table really well.

Powered table is RARE and overly complicated.

IF you make a lot of form tools for your lathe or mill they're super handy. At the very least you need the 50 taper work head, matched footstock's an air bearing fixture and the all angle vise. Nice to have the radius grinding fixtures.

BTW

If you really need power feed on the table, unlocking the table pinon from the table rack takes 5 seconds, and once done the table floats free. Pretty simple to simply bolt up your favorite light duty linear drive to the table, in place of the ancillary fine feed mechanism (also somewhat rare)

Cyclotron:

I will keep in mind the light-duty nature. This machine will not be for production work, but more for me tinkering around, exploring precision OD/ID grinding, cosmetic grinding, sharpening endmills, occasional form-cutter grinding, etc. While I might use a cyl grinder from time to time, I see myself using a T&C grinder far more frequently and given the limited shop space, a T&C over a CG makes sense.

I'm not so worried about a powered table. Nice to have, but I see they come at a steep increase in price. I'll settle for manual for now. My surface grinder is manual too, but I don't use it so frequently that I'd want to take up extra room with a hydraulic version.

Thank you for the suggestions on moving the table. I will indeed remove the balls/cages and keep the table separate during travel.

Just got two quotes from Machinery Values in NJ; a little pricey considering I just talked to a guy locally with a Cincinnati Monoset for $4k ($3k USD). Boy I wish I could use a Monoset for cylindrical grinding greater than 6"... I would have picked that one up quickly.

Thanks for the attachment suggestions - I will add those to my list.

What do you think of the tiling head feature? Never mind which is smoother - I'm talking functionality. Is being able to tilt the head +/- 15% a nice-to-have feature? As I recall, they also allow offsetting the head for greater reach. Seems to me they wouldn't have gone far out of the way to build this if it wasn't a desirable feature. I don't want to make the mistake of settling for a non-tilting head only to find out later that I should have held out for one with the more articulate head.

I bought a Cinci #2 for exactly the same as you plan. They are NOT designed for precision cylindrical grinding. The infeed is far too course. Consider a B&S #13 instead. Or consider a MYford MG12.

Tom

I have a B&S 13 with all the attachments except an ID grinding spindle. Prob not economical to get it to you but feel free to contact me.

Tom, thank you for that information. I can see right away the B&S has a .0001 cross-feed graduation and will start looking at these as well (or instead).
Regarding the Myfords, I spoke to someone who is selling them locally, but the wheelhead is fixed. Good Cyl Grinder. Not so good as a tool and cutter grinder.

He also has a Cincinnati (Milicron) Monoset tool and cutter grinder, but now I'm deviating from cylindrical grinding altogether.

Sigh. Looks like I have quite a bit of homework to do.

ndh78, I PM'ed you.

Torin

I'm the wrong guy to ask about the tilt head; having cut my teeth so to speak on an under drive machine without that function. so in spite of having one of each I almost never use the tilt function. For me it's simply been reduced to an elegeant solution to a non existent problem.

Tilt head on the surface grinder.... now that's another story!

BTW broaden your sweep to B&S #13, Gallmeyer and Livingston, Wickman, CLarkson, Yuasa and etc. The Cinc machines were ubiquitous and widely copied but hardly top of the food chain

Torin

I'm the wrong guy to ask about the tilt head; having cut my teeth so to speak on an under drive machine without that function. so in spite of having one of each I almost never use the tilt function. For me it's simply been reduced to an elegeant solution to a non existent problem.

Tilt head on the surface grinder.... now that's another story!

BTW broaden your sweep to B&S #13, Gallmeyer and Livingston, Wickman, CLarkson, Yuasa and etc. The Cinc machines were ubiquitous and widely copied but hardly top of the food chain

Well received. I already have a bead on a B&S with power table from Michigan for a decent price (unlike those offered by the overinflated Mchineryvalues.com) and am lining up transport.

Before I commit though, in your opinion, how would you rank the machines you just listed from most desirable/functional to least?

I'd rate them in about that order. In terms of manual machines a good Brownie with all the accessories is tough to beat

agreed, they're not the same, a real cylindrical grinder is a lot more solid. I do use my T&CG with the motorized head for cylindrical grinding and can do good work with it, but you have to hold your tongue just so. I overcame the infeed resolution issue with a Mit 10ths indicator mounted on a adjustable arm. I also did a ground up reconditioning so its as solid and accurate as it can be. Do make you sure the grinder you get is set up for coolant....you;ll need it for cylindrical grinding. If you get something are a missing the internal grinding attachment, I've got a box of accessories the internal grinding attachment I want to sell

I'm with McGyver on this, especially the tongue holding part of the instructions.

Personally having two #2 Cinci's both left over from a previous grinding business, and both in very good shape.

I kept them because they are dirt simple, easy to move, relatively cheap and very much lego block machines, not because they are super accurate. You can do good work with one, but there is a learning curve. Feeds have only 0.001 resolution and they're not nearly the last word in rigid.

Mcgyver said:

agreed, they're not the same, a real cylindrical grinder is a lot more solid. I do use my T&CG with the motorized head for cylindrical grinding and can do good work with it, but you have to hold your tongue just so. I overcame the infeed resolution issue with a Mit 10ths indicator mounted on a adjustable arm. I also did a ground up reconditioning so its as solid and accurate as it can be. Do make you sure the grinder you get is set up for coolant....you;ll need it for cylindrical grinding. If you get something are a missing the internal grinding attachment, I've got a box of accessories the internal grinding attachment I want to sell

Click to expand...

MacGyver,

This machine is for play, not for production, so I don't expect to do any heavy cutting. Only light precision (and cosmetic) passes. Ever since I saw the star-like criss-cross patterns on precision ground components of my Japanese 5AX-120 tilting/rotary table, I've romanced the idea of making precision parts with grinders. Soon, if all goes well, I will take delivery of a B&S #13 grinder with many many attachments, but an internal grinding attachment is not counted among them. I would be interested in discussing your ID attachment offline.


Torin...

The Criss-cross pattern was most likely "blanchard-ground". If thats the look you're going for, you need to get the Connley book on machine tool rebuilding and sign up for one of the "scraping" workshops

No, it was definitely cylindrically ground. I don't feel like taking the chuck off, but I caught a glimpse of the surface of the spindle in my table - the face is definitely cylindrically ground.

(Excuse the disgusting condition - I can't detach it from my mill easily so it sits right under my mill and catches all the chips coming off.)