WTB Monarch 12CK lathe

Hello all,
Would anyone within, say, a 9 hour's drive of Jonesboro, AR, (zip 72401) happen to have a WWII-era Monarch 12"CK lathe they'd consider selling?

I have a 1941 or so 11" Sheldon lathe I'm hoping to upgrade.

Thanks in advance!

Josh

I would also be interested in a Monarch 14C in lieu of a 12CK, and I'd likely be up for a longer drive for the right lathe at a price I can afford...

What is your price range? And why necessarily a Monarch?

Tom

Sorry if this comes through twice. I tried to reply using the web browser on my phone and then somehow managed to delete my original reply.

My budget is up to about $2,000. Having searched the forum here extensively, it seems like many people have been able to find a 12CK for well under that, possibly in need of some restoration. I'm not expecting a pristine, perfect, fully tooled lathe (or a 10EE) for that price.

Why Monarch? From everything I have read, they are about the highest quality of the World War II vintage lathes in the size range that would work for me. They seem to have great ergonomics and great features. I like the apron mounted lead screw reverse, for example. I also like that the forum here has so many experts with so much knowledge of Monarch lathes. I feel like if I got a Hendey or Lodge & Shipley, both of which I've considered due to their reported rigidity & features comparable to a Monarch, there would be less experience base if I run into problems. I'm not saying there aren't experts here for those makes, but it seems like there is a lot more knowledge base for Monarchs in general. I also would like to get one lathe that I will hopefully never outgrow. That makes me want to steer away from a lesser lathe like my current WWII 11" Sheldon. Finally, I have read a few experienced folks here saying that, for a smaller general purpose lathe, the 12CK comes about as close to perfect all around as can be.

paroikoi said:

I'm not expecting a pristine, perfect, fully tooled lathe (or a 10EE) for that price.

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Condition, condition, condition.

War Two was a VERY long time ago. Anything of that vintage WILL be a "project".

Only a few - 10EE among them - will have the top RPM to make good all-around use of carbide cutting tools.

Dunno WHICH Sheldon you have, 11" tells me nada, but some of them ("R" and "S") are about as good as "light" lathes get as to value for money.

$2,000 is about HALF what you'll need to get most anything you do not already have workholding and tooling to fit - and power to run - up and making chips.

Might be ahead to do a serious refurb of yer Sheldon?

Thanks for the guidance, thermite. I know whatever I find will be a project to at least some degree. I'd still like a nicer and larger lathe than my Sheldon. For what it's worth, the catalog number on mine is "S.E.W.Q.M." It has an ordnance inspection stamp (ordnance bomb) next to the serial number on the end of the ways, indicating military usage. The base/cabinet is not original. Here's a photo:



I'd still like to upgrade to a larger, nicer lathe, even if a "project."

paroikoi said:

Thanks for the guidance, thermite. I know whatever I find will be a project to at least some degree. I'd still like a nicer and larger lathe than my Sheldon. For what it's worth, the catalog number on mine is "S.E.W.Q.M." It has an ordnance inspection stamp (ordnance bomb) next to the serial number on the end of the ways, indicating military usage. The base/cabinet is not original. Here's a photo:

View attachment 279883

I'd still like to upgrade to a larger, nicer lathe, even if a "project."

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"Nicer" is subjective. Some folks like the "bigger" Schaublins, for example. Go figure.



Stiffer, and capable of moving metal faster, is easier to put "real numbers" to.
Even rather pedestrian South Korean Wacheon's (Mori Seiko clones..) do that well-enough. Still in brand-new production, those are, so the chance of finding one ready to use is higher. Price is tougher, of course.

"Larger" than your Sheldon, work-envelope-wise, a 12CK isn't by much.
Prolly swings 14 1/2" - plus over the ways, but a 14" nominal or "trade size" swings around 16" there.

My rationale for the roughly 14" X 30" HBX-360 as a "step up" from 10EE's wasn't so much the greater swing - it was 30" center-to-center vs only twenty inches.
Annnnnnnd.. that per a "reliable source", (PM's own Milacron hisself..) it had very little significant bed or cross wear, and only a "possibly" fried motor I could easily replace with a Dee Cee monster I have on-hand.

It also made more sense to me to go for an inherently "Metric" inch/metric lathe that could cut US threads easily as well as metric rather than to mess with transposing gears, supplementary charts, and finessing half-nuts engagement/dis-engagement or NOT.

Both cases, I have 2500 to 3000 + max RPM on-tap. Newer 10EE had 4,000 RPM. My bearings will stand it if I want to go there with a pulley change.

CAVEAT: Chucks have to be either/both a) selected as high-RPM capable, b) smaller - ELSE shed outright for collet systems to make use of the top RPM.

My investment in chucks and SEVERAL collet systems alone would burn triple your entire $2,000 target budget. Mind, that's enough to cover TWO 10EE without sharing, 'Coz ONE of them is not meant to stay here forever, and my "plan" is it leaves VERY well tooled-up AND NOT pieced-out.

A 12CK is what? 600 or 700 RPM, tops? Only good news in that is most any chuck that it can provide clear swing for will stand 1200 RPM!

But that makes a lot of turning work a tad challenging that is probably easier to do on the Sheldon you already have with its higher top RPM.

"More research" might be put onto yer tasking list?

If I hadn't stumbled on the Cazeneuve, I might have wanted a Lodge & Shipley "AVS", first-generation (the DC drive ones, not the AC+VFD ones). Monarch Machine Tool owned L&S by then. They were - as claimed - "good lathes". Very.

Maybe a farther drive than you initially wanted but within your budget.

Facebook Marketplace: Lathe - Tools - Harford, Pennsylvania

Thanks, tommy1010. I think that is a bit out of my driving range, which is probably why I haven't found that yet in my Facebook searches. The Facebook search engine also leaves something to be desired. Looks like a great lathe and a lot of tooling for that price. I think it's too big for my spot for it, and beyond the capability of my forklift to move. Thanks again, though.

Thermite: I'll have to reply more to your post once I'm at a computer with better access. In the meantime, can anyone give me their thoughts on this 12CK?

Someone within driving distance of me replied to my Craigslist want to buy ad with a 1943 Monarch 12CK. It was used by IBM, reportedly to make gun parts. I actually have an IBM M1 carbine made in '43 or '44. so, this could have played some role in that. Pretty neat. It's in pretty good shape and has a 5 HP motor that would work with my current phase converter. However, it comes with zero tooling. $1,800.

Based on what you wrote, thermite, I'm going to end up having to spend a whole lot more than my $2,000 budget. Given that, it seems like this lathe might not be over priced at $1800 without tooling. Thoughts?

Sorry the photos appear to be upside down. That's how they were sent to me. It won't let me fix it on my phone, so I'll try to re-upload them from my computer later.

I can't tell if it has a taper attachment...

Flipped them for you. T/A under those nearly perfect covers - its the ball bearing version

Thanks, John!

As has been said, condition, condition, condition. About the only think I can find out from those pictures is that nothing in the way of handles are broken. Assuming there are no aw-shits (broken gears, excessively worn ways, bad bearings, etc), I see at least another $1000 to get it halfway running to make parts.

Tom

I'm up for a lathe in less than ideal condition. I've restored several small machines (e.g., an Atlas lathe & mill). So, I'm excited about the unforeseen blessing I got today: a guy is giving me a 1942 12CK he got for free years ago and hasn't got around to using. It's rough, but it has a 3-jaw chuck, taper attachment, Aloris tool post with several tool holders, and all the back copies of Home Shop Machinist that covered the 12CK rebuild many years ago. The lathe's seen better days and has a non-original Dayton motor, but it's free. I thanked him profusely and will make the long road trip to south Louisiana this weekend, God willing, to get it. I'm excited! The gears look great in photos he sent me. The rest doesn't, but nothing looks broken.