WTB: Rockwell Mill

I recently got a mill and now my buddy really wants a vertical mill for his shop. lol! He said he wants a Rockwell mill. I think the 21-120 model. He said he just wants a smaller mill and the picture he showed me was a Rockwell 21-120.
We are located in Lake Charles, LA but willing to travel if needed or pay for freight for the right deal.

Email: [email protected]

Thanks!

I was looking online and found this one..

Rockwell Vertical Milling Machine Model 21-120...Late Model, Extra Nice !!!! | eBay

Anybody know if its worth $4k? My buddy was wanting to keep it under $3k and was wanting to use that budget for DRO and other accessories.

$4000 is the very very top end. I have one for sale that has never been advertised but I am 800 miles from you. Mine is in very good condition. I acquired it from a local high school in 1995. I am the second owner. It was in regular use in my garage shop until about 5 years ago when I replaced it with a millrite/Bridgeport Head. If you are interested let me know in this thread and I’ll send you photos and answer questions.

Even if that is too far I can still answer questions about the Rockwell mill. I used mine for 20 years.

mach2 said:

$4000 is the very very top end. I have one for sale that has never been advertised but I am 800 miles from you. Mine is in very good condition. I acquired it from a local high school in 1995. I am the second owner. It was in regular use in my garage shop until about 5 years ago when I replaced it with a millrite/Bridgeport Head. If you are interested let me know in this thread and I’ll send you photos and answer questions.

Even if that is too far I can still answer questions about the Rockwell mill. I used mine for 20 years.

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I thought it seemed high too.


Go ahead and send me a PM with detail and pictures or email me at [email protected]

Nothing wrong with a Rockwell, but a short table short knee Bridgeport is a better machine and I don' t think anyone ever paid 4k for one

and it takes little more space

I have a vertical/horizontal Rockwell mill that I am selling this spring. Located in Hartford Ct thinking about 2K.

Email sent.

Will you send me an email with detailed information and pictures? Thanks!

allfoden said:

I have a vertical/horizontal Rockwell mill that I am selling this spring. Located in Hartford Ct thinking about 2K.

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I got your email, Mach2. I’ll respond soon.

I would guess you are paying about $2,000 extra for the paint job on that mill.

LanierKnives said:

I recently got a mill and now my buddy really wants a vertical mill for his shop. lol! He said he wants a Rockwell mill. I think the 21-120 model. He said he just wants a smaller mill and the picture he showed me was a Rockwell 21-120.
We are located in Lake Charles, LA but willing to travel if needed or pay for freight for the right deal.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

That's kinda in the same vein as wanting a Crosley or Morris Minor motor car - with a winch and snow-skis - because they were really small.

Problem is, you have to pay over the mark for them and all that because they are also serious obsolete and never were all that common to begin with. Harwell/Centex/Delta Rockwell, not the worst ever made - the history is here:

Delta Rockwell milling machines

That said, MOST combo mills are nicer in concept than execution and actual utility.

My USMT "Quartet" at 5205 lbs Avoir - Hell-for-stout vs 780 lbs Avoir - is barely tolerable for a hobbyshits use, would be a disaster in a revenue shop where two SEPARATE mills could git 'er done FASTER as well as better without all the f**king about to make the change-of-gender stuff work.

A Rambaudi - at a LOT more mass than the Rockwell combo - is far the better way to go if you have the combo need for real, not just because it seems a neat idea.

They did cease making them, whilst Wells-Index ain't yet quit.

If even yah do NEED the horizontal at all.

Happens it takes a genuine mill hand to get HIS "head around" the ways of working of a horizontal to good effect. Not all that many of 'em around to help yah "get it", these days, either.

Verticals are less demanding, learning-curve-and tooling wise for the part-timer or hobbyist. EVERYBODY has the tee-shirt, yah get lots of help.

Wiser spend could be a decent BirdPort, Wells-index, Basque, or Taiwanese BirdPort clone. R8 if you must, 40-taper if one can.

The extra size and mass makes it EASIER, not harder to do small work. Repair parts, motor to tooling are more easily found, DRO, even servos, may already be in-place and sorted out. Half the known world uses this class of vertical, there are a dozen decent makes with a lot in common.

For a modest allotment of extra space and mass, yah worry less about carrying the needs of a small-niche orphaned mill on yer back, and just get on with life and let the more common class of mill work for YOU!

thermite said:

... mill hand to get HIS "head around" the ways of working of a horizontal to good effect. ...

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Or, if one owns only a horizontal, one gets good at it over time. The rockwell in question at the origin of this discussion was
a vertical machine. Some consider them to be the best thing if a full size b'port just does not fit in the space. Has an R8 quill
and all. As you say, relatively uncommon. Cheaper than a deckel, that's a plus.

I had a Rockwell Vertical for a couple decades. When I bought it, I paid around $1500 tooled up(collets, drill chucks, small vice.) I then paid another $1500? (Early 90s dollars) to have all the ways machined/ground and flaked, the gibs were built up and scraped in . The table was ground and flaked.
I painted the base and column and used that machine for 25 years and sold it recently for $3750
It pained me to sell it, as I took exceptional care of it, but needed room for a vmc and a cnc knee mill.


It was really nice to use, but you had to be patient and take light cuts and make a production out of setups because the table is small.

It’s a great mill for prototype work and models.

They go for big money because they can be disassembled easily and carried down stairs, they are made from quality castings and are much better than the made in China crap that sells for the same money.


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jim rozen said:

Or, if one owns only a horizontal, one gets good at it over time. The rockwell in question at the origin of this discussion was
a vertical machine. Some consider them to be the best thing if a full size b'port just does not fit in the space. Has an R8 quill
and all. As you say, relatively uncommon. Cheaper than a deckel, that's a plus.

Click to expand...

First post, two mentions, second post with a link, by model number and that one is "combo" mill.

Two YEARS on horizontals "only" before Herr Pelz put me onto an M-head, then J-head, so yah, one learns. And that was the old Schwabian's intent, so I'm the better for it.

Taking the point made by ripperj and other owners, these eat no more space than a Burke #4 or a Hardinge T, have several handier attributes, so "not a BAD mill".

Just - realistically - not much of a mill - compared with what yah can fit into not a huge ration more of floorspace.

Bills last line said it best, if you can handle another 1500# and the real estate, get a full size mill, everything is easier... want a power drawbar, power feed, a couple clicks on Amazon and it will be there tomorrow......DRO, vise .............


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You all bring up valid points. In fact, I was looking around for a small knee mill myself. However, I ran across an old Wells Index 747 near me for $1500. After talking him down to $900 then I went and picked it up. I am working through some bugs with it, but its been good to me so far. My buddy is looking for a larger shop right now and has finally found one. So now he wants to buy my Wells Index from me instead. This has a 9x46 table, which is just overkill for the small knives that I build. What are some other options besides the Rockwell for small knee mills? I seen a small BP mill with a table that was 32" long. It was pretty attractive. My shop is pretty small and the Wells Index is a tight fit. I may sell it to me buddy... But I may just tell him to go find his own mill. lol! I agree with thermite that the size and weight of this beast makes it super sturdy for my small knives.

thermite said:

Two YEARS on horizontals "only" before Herr Pelz put me onto an M-head,

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30 years for me. My basement shop would not even permit the relatively tiny rockwell vertical to
live there, the overhead is just too low. The hardinge fits quite well. I even own a rebuilt M head
that I've adapted to that machine, and I never put it into play. Actually I am trying to find a good
home for that.

From the photos the knee travel and table size for the rockwell vertical is about the same as the
specs for a hardinge UM. Ie a bit on the small size.

jim rozen said:

30 years for me.

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There yah go. Yer a good man, after all, Charlie Brown.

My basement shop would not even permit the relatively tiny rockwell vertical to
live there, the overhead is just too low. The hardinge fits quite well. I even own a rebuilt M head that I've adapted to that machine, and I never put it into play. Actually I am trying to find a good home for that.

Click to expand...

Guess an "M" head is better than a Porter-Cable router or one of those Chinee ER-XX spindles, but even so, Carbide endmills as good as they have grown to be? High RPM works well. I'd abstain from betting.

From the photos the knee travel and table size for the rockwell vertical is about the same as the specs for a hardinge UM. Ie a bit on the small size.

Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but the Rockwell seems to be stouter in the the ways and knee. R8 to me is but a nuisance. I'm fine with # 9 B&S and a PDQ-Marlin rig even on that.

And it could fit just fine. Look again.

The integral base can be re-purposed to - for example, host a T&C grinder of the Deckel/Alexander/Gorton/Lars "SO" tribe.

The mill itself could go onto a shop-fab base not as tall.

I'm blessed (or cursed) that the ceiling in my case is not under living space. It is an annnoyingly low overhead, but nonetheless scoot and crawl accessable storage attic, built Hell-for-stout because the prevous owner THOUGHT he could get a permit for a full story that would have been living space level with the upper story of the three-level-split residence... and failed of approval.

Long story short, I need a HATCH to pull the top off the Alzmetall AB5/S and would need another to pull the drawbar of the Quartet's vertical head. On the Quartet it isn't at all hard to swing rhe head over instead of cutting a hatch.

Even so, I should live long enough to go any stiffer in the wrong places, it may yet get that hatch.

Message there is my case, a covered opening up-top is easy.

Other folk may need only a cleared cavity in the spece between floor joists to get the extra clearance - no need of piercing the deck above.

Or they could do. The carpentry is easy enough.

"Grand Ma? Why is there a flush trapdoor in the middle of your bathroom floor right in front of the flush toilet?"

"That's so your Grand Dad can pull his drawbar, dear Grand Daughter."

I'd like to be a fly on the wall whilst the Ancient and Honourable Wimmin's Union take up the rest of THAT "educational" conversation about the male of the species and his odd ways...

allfoden said:

I have a vertical/horizontal Rockwell mill that I am selling this spring. Located in Hartford Ct thinking about 2K.

Click to expand...

I'm intriqued, Can you send/post pics and include any accessories and/or tooling, etc? Thanks

mach2 said:

$4000 is the very very top end. I have one for sale that has never been advertised but I am 800 miles from you. Mine is in very good condition. I acquired it from a local high school in 1995. I am the second owner. It was in regular use in my garage shop until about 5 years ago when I replaced it with a millrite/Bridgeport Head. If you are interested let me know in this thread and I’ll send you photos and answer questions.

Even if that is too far I can still answer questions about the Rockwell mill. I used mine for 20 years.

Click to expand...

Mach,
I would potentially be interested in this as well. Gotta hurry up and get my tax refund!