WTB: VMC or cnc mill

My little one man shop is growing and I am in need of a few more mills. I've been running prototype work on a Clausing Kondia fv1 cnc knee mill and farming out production jobs all year, it's time to finally bring that work in house.

I could really use two 3 axis vmc's but I can make do with one for now. I would also consider adding another cnc knee mill if it were priced right.

Ideally I'm looking for machines sized between a Haas mini mill and a Vf3. (Doesn't have to be Haas. I am only using it as a size comparison)

My requirements are:

• It must be able to clear an 8' door opening with minimal disassembly.

• Must be able to run on a rotary converter

• Must be in good working order: No bird nested wiring,no boards covered in jumpers, elect cabinet clean on the inside, ball screws and spindle do not make noise, tool changer works properly, all mechanical systems function properly, mechanical lash is at a minimum.

•NO electrical gremlins.

A 10k rpm spindle would be very beneficial although I can get by without it.

I have a budget of $10,000. Transport and equipment rental cost will have to be included in that as well. I had originally planned a larger budget but that capital is not available at the moment. I'd like to have at least one more mill in the shop before we're shin deep in snow here in NE Ohio.

Before anybody starts calling me dumbass and telling me to go play in traffic...Please, let me finish.


As an alternative for newer machines, I would also consider a contract to run production work for you at a substantially reduced rate as partial payment. If you have a mill or two surplus to your ongoing needs, I have the time and resources to run them. No paycheck, no insurance, no worker's comp payments. Drama free parts delivered in tolerance and on time.

Thank you!

A lot of machines that fit your requirements are taller than 8'.

What is the actual max height you can have in your shop? I would cut out a door header or take out a wall if I had to (I have) to install a machine with a taller height.

Craigslist, Marketplace and even Ebay are great places to find deals. You might also put a wanted ad on craigslist. I have and it works amazing sometimes.

Under $10k usually needs work. I have bought a few VMC's with noisy ballscrew thrust bearings. I ran the shit out of them and never touched the bearings. I have had a couple with spindles that were noisy, only one was actually bad enough to make me do something about it. So you might make some concessions there, but I get where you're coming from.

If you have the time you might take a day and go look at a ton of machines being sold out of the company that owns/runs them. Even if they are dealer represented. Conversate with the plant manager and maintenance. My favorite question ever is "what else you got you're thinking of selling?" Make sure the dealer isn't around when you ask.

My building is 30x50 with the trusses set at 8'. If I remove the 7' door and cut out the header, I can get 8'. Why someone would build a 1500 sqft building with such low ceilings is beyond me. I was 22 when I bought the place in 2012. It was the best I could do at the time.

I don't have a ceiling in the shop and trusses are spaced 6' on center. Once the machine is in place, I'll have at least an extra 4' clearance for the Z axis.

I am on Craigslist,marketplace and eBay daily. The machines I am looking for are unfortunately in the most competitive catagory or they are too far away to ship for a reasonable amount. I wish I had room for a horizontal. I can't believe how little they go for at times.

You do make a good point. I suppose I would be willing to make concessions in some areas. I'm not very electronically talented when it comes to diagnosing 25 year old circuit boards covered in unfiltered shop goo though. I will have to avoid those.

I will be posting a WTB on Craigslist. I thought about the newspaper too, although I'm not sure how many people read them anymore. I had not thought about going to shops with machines listed and asking around. That makes a lot of sense.

I'm just stuck in a strange spot at the moment. I have nearly $45k worth of production work guaranteed. The money I would lose on farming out the mill work would alone pay for a better machine. I just don't have the capital available today to buy a $15k-$20k mill and $3k rotary; plus tooling, material, heat treat, and other outside vendor services for this job.

Technically I could do it, but that would leave absolutely no room for the inevitable random catastrophes of life. That is not a place I will ever be by choice lol.

Freedommachine said:

Technically I could do it, but that would leave absolutely no room for the inevitable random catastrophes of life. That is not a place I will ever be by choice lol.

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Shit. At your age you are already smarter than I was twenty years later

You're in Ohio. Look at Mohawk's inventory and choose something you like. Drop their asking at least 10-15%. More if you think you can get away with it. They'll let you pay monthly. (Don't let them roll over you. There's always more fish in the sea, but we've done ... mostly okay with Mohawk.)

If they don't have anything you like (inventory changes) then try that with some other dealers close to you.

So pick an area where the mill is going to live. Frame out a roof dormer with the gable end flush with the outside wall. Install a 9' or 10' tall door. Or just put a door in the gable end of the building if you can.

I have a Fadal late vmc 40 that has a ton of upgrades , new parts on it , 10000 rpm spindle , new bearing in it, new ballscrews all axis, new turcite all axis, -5 control boards , thrust bearings , oiling system been gone through expanded memory 4th and 5th axis drives. Also have either a 4th or a 5 axis tr65 for extra $.
Tool probing, optical touch probe for mp renishaw probes. Have owned this for 15 years been a good machine. Price is in your range. Located in sw Mn. Just don’t use it much anymore. It is a dc machine. Could get a deal on shipping if you needed.


When I find it I don’t need it
When I need it I can’t find it!

EmanuelGoldstein said:

Shit. At your age you are already smarter than I was twenty years later

You're in Ohio. Look at Mohawk's inventory and choose something you like. Drop their asking at least 10-15%. More if you think you can get away with it. They'll let you pay monthly. (Don't let them roll over you. There's always more fish in the sea, but we've done ... mostly okay with Mohawk.)

If they don't have anything you like (inventory changes) then try that with some other dealers close to you.

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Thank you, I will keep that in mind. I had not heard of Mohawk but there are a few dealers in my area. There is always HGR as well but most of their vmc's look fairly beat and not being able to power them up makes for quite a gamble.

Garwood said:

So pick an area where the mill is going to live. Frame out a roof dormer with the gable end flush with the outside wall. Install a 9' or 10' tall door. Or just put a door in the gable end of the building if you can.

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My door is on the gable end. I like the dormer idea. I will not have the time to build one this year but now you've got me thinking about future options...

Turbowerks said:

I have a Fadal late vmc 40 that has a ton of upgrades , new parts on it , 10000 rpm spindle , new bearing in it, new ballscrews all axis, new turcite all axis, -5 control boards , thrust bearings , oiling system been gone through expanded memory 4th and 5th axis drives. Also have either a 4th or a 5 axis tr65 for extra $.
Tool probing, optical touch probe for mp renishaw probes. Have owned this for 15 years been a good machine. Price is in your range. Located in sw Mn. Just don’t use it much anymore. It is a dc machine. Could get a deal on shipping if you needed.

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Yes sir! That sounds like just what I need. I'll send you a pm, thanks.

Is there a fadal section on this forum? I didn't see one on the homepage. I have never run a fadal but I am intrigued by them.
My first question would be; Why are they always so clean? A 5 year old Mazak will have the paint blasted off the inside of the enclosure but I've come across numerous fadal machines from the 80's and 90's that still look nearly new.

From what I understand, Fadal rebuilt some of these machines up into the mid 2000's but never fitted them with modern controls, why?

I'm not bashing fadal machines, I just don't know what I don't know.

Got a 2003 fadal 4020 with datc and chip conveyer for about what you are asking but it will need to take a small trip. Pm me if interested