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Makino VS Okuma for hard milling

mikecncguy

Plastic
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Looking at a Makino F5 and a Okuma Genos M560 for hard milling of tool steal that has been heat treated to 60 to 64 Rockwell. Does anyone have recommendations?
 
No experience with the F5 or any Okuma, but had great experiences with the old LeBlond-Makino GF6 and FNC128 models. Granted they were 50 taper machines, but given the pedigree and experience I'd be hard pressed to go with anything else.

That said, any way to have a couple test parts cut?
 
I did . The Makino part had great finish and the size was dead on. I had Okuma run a test and the parts did not look good. So then I told them how we had Makino run the parts. They ran parts a second time and they turned out just as good. Makino had a little better cycle time. Hard milling is somewhat new to us, we have done it on a Fadal 4020 but it was just to open up co-bores in die buttons. I was worried about the support from Okuma as well as Makino. you know when your getting ready to buy a machine the salesmen promise the world, then some don't deliver.
 
Makino is one of the best machines you can buy. Their US service center is in Cincinnati, and the Ohio dealer has some of the best Makino guys on staff. Jumping up from an Fadal you will be impressed all the way around.
 
I think you'll be well supported from either Makino or Okuma. I'm curious though - I would have thought Makino's "F" series machines would be more comparable to Okuma's "MB-V" series machines. From a pricing perspective, I thought PS95/Genos machines were price-competitors...
 
Just want to point out (not saying you don't know this) that for hard milling in that rockwell range, everything is going to matter. Whatever machine you get, make sure to get quality tool holders, and tools as well. If you are doing a comparison, I would make sure that each MTB is using the same holders as well. So don't compare the makino using Nikken Lyndex tooling to the okuma using a generic run of the mill sidelock. Or one using a sidelock and one using shrink fit, etc.
 
I can't tell you anything about the Makino, so I can't give a /comparison/ but we have a few M560s. We mill parts up to 60Rc ... don't think we have had call to hard mill beyond that, yet. They'll handle it just fine. I've never used any other type of machine to do the hard milling unfortunately. Capability is absolutely there. So it might be other features that make your decision. Other than a few Hurcos and a Kira, all our VMCs are Okuma. All the Okuma mills we have do pretty well with hardened steels. We do a fair bit of tool & die work, and a lot of those components are hard milled in the Okuma VMCs. Just finished some extrusion die components that were hardened to 60Rc before finish milling and they turned out with a great finish, slick as butter, milled down a 3" vertical wall and came out just beautiful. That was one of our bigger Millacs though. The Genos M560 does similar, just.. smaller. :)
 
I would make sure that the sample parts they ran for you are an apples to apples comparison. Like stated before same tool holder but I would take it a step farther and say same tool and same workholding and most importantly same program. I ran hastelloy, inconel and stellite parts for 6 years on a haas tm-1, sure tool life was shit but we made money doing it. The funny thing was that I didn't realize that there was even a problem until we replaced the machine with a mazak mill and I was able to get an order of magnitude more parts per endmill. I have no experience with either brand but from what I've heard I am sure you'll be satisfied either way.
 
I can't speak to which machine would be the best but if I was you I would make sure the machine has a dual contact spindle. This greatly increases tool life and finish.
 
I don't think this is really and apples to apples comparison but if you don't need the 20k hsk spindle, or scales on the Makino, I would go with the Okuma. If you feel you need the 20k rpm and scale feedback I would get the Makino. The Makino is probably 200k+, the Okuma about 150k. I would get the one that will suit you best long term.
 
Just want to point out (not saying you don't know this) that for hard milling in that rockwell range, everything is going to matter. Whatever machine you get, make sure to get quality tool holders, and tools as well. If you are doing a comparison, I would make sure that each MTB is using the same holders as well. So don't compare the makino using Nikken Lyndex tooling to the okuma using a generic run of the mill sidelock. Or one using a sidelock and one using shrink fit, etc.

+1 - I've been thinking some about this, and if I (the buyer in this case) were serious, I would be the one supplying the tooling, programs, material, etc. to BOTH vendors to get a true-as-possible apples-to-apples comparison. Endmills, toolholders, etc. After-all, it's not like those things are all that expensive anyway, and you're going to need them once you buy the machine - so what's a few hundred bucks ahead of time, to make sure you're getting the best results for the long run.
 
I haven't run a Makino but have always heard very good things. I do own a Genos M560-V and I can tell you that it is an impressive machine. Tons of power everywhere, extremely rigid..control is sweet.

The Okuma M560-V is the Okuma MB-56 mill without the long list of options that can be spec'd for the MB line. I can say that after my research the M560-V is the best machine for the money on the market.

The Makino may be the better machine for you, I can't say but I will promise that an equal Makino is more money.
 
Thank you all for your advice. We decided to go with the Makino. Will be here in early Febuary.
Now any thoughts on 5 axis fixtures for this machine. It does have a Koma TN 161 4th and 5th axis.
I was looking at Jergens and Erowa.
 








 
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