100,000 UK Covid 19 Deaths - Page 31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    So, you have reading comprehension issues, excerpt from your link with highlights.
    "Authors' conclusions: The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low compliance with the interventions during the studies hamper drawing firm conclusions and generalising the findings to the current COVID-19 pandemic. There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low-moderate certainty of the evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. The pooled results of randomised trials did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks during seasonal influenza. There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection. Hand hygiene is likely to modestly reduce the burden of respiratory illness. Harms associated with physical interventions were under-investigated. There is a need for large, well-designed RCTs addressing the effectiveness of many of these interventions in multiple settings and populations, especially in those most at risk of ARIs.
    let me help you:
    The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low compliance with the interventions during the studies hamper drawing firm conclusions and generalising the findings to the current COVID-19 pandemic.
    translation: the trials are rubbish
    The pooled results of randomised trials did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks during seasonal influenza.
    translation: simple masks do not work
    There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection.
    translation: n95/p2 do not work either.

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    This is a interesting article on cloth masks. It discusses the virus size in relation to the cloth fabric threads with gaps in between fibers being larger than “droplets”. It is interesting reading. The conclusion is that it has positive effects vs not wearing a mask and so using them is helpful.

    Better masks likely means that the effectiveness is increased. In close proximity the risks would obviously be higher that a infected person could pass on the virus. Social distancing adds to the effectiveness against spreading or catching the virus both.

    There are some who will not wear them and even some told by their doctor not to wear them in their case though this is rare coming from general and Family doctors usually those are specialists. That is based on friends who said their docs told them not to bother masking. Of course socially distancing is still encouraged.

    Article;
    COVID-19 masks FAQs: How can cloth stop a tiny virus? What’s the best fabric? Do they protect the wearer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    let me help you:
    The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low compliance with the interventions during the studies hamper drawing firm conclusions and generalising the findings to the current COVID-19 pandemic.
    translation: the trials are rubbish
    The pooled results of randomised trials did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks during seasonal influenza.
    translation: simple masks do not work
    There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection.
    translation: n95/p2 do not work either.
    So someone coughs in your face with no mask is A-OK. Would you not rather they had a mask on? Would you not rather they cough away from you and cover their mouth? With hand, or mask? Is it not different?

    You've linked this one before. It's about the mask protecting the wearer. I realize now you are possibly mentally retarded so I'll ease up: the mask protects other people. Let's simplify for you- the mask helps. I appreciate that you are proud of yourself (and you should be! Good effort! Waffles for breakfast tomorrow!) for finding something that you think proves a (?) point. But you got everything wrong.

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    guys there is a reason doctors and lab wear n95 masks. this studies are fishy. N95 are in short supply and germany asked 2 weeks ago i thing to have KN95 or N95 when going outside, there was an article in reuters.com keep in mind that china dried the N95 mask inventory before WHO said anything.

    Wear mask N95 is the best, the cloth mask from the study if proper fabric is selected is better that the underwear surgical mask. be cautious and pray god.

    Tim

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    I get mine online at Amazon. We have heard all kinds of flip flops on this actually to the degree that one side or another wishes to make it all one way or the other.


    Advice to not touch ones face with their hands and to wash them frequently is very good direction. Add to that the masks and social distancing.

    Once this thing leaves it will be like a recurring bad dream which finally just stops. Maybe it will seem like magic who knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliaj00 View Post
    guys there is a reason doctors and lab wear n95 masks. this studies are fishy. N95 are in short supply and germany asked 2 weeks ago i thing to have KN95 or N95 when going outside, there was an article in reuters.com keep in mind that china dried the N95 mask inventory before WHO said anything.

    Wear mask N95 is the best, the cloth mask from the study if proper fabric is selected is better that the underwear surgical mask. be cautious and pray god.

    Tim
    From what I see, P100 is the best, N95 only stops 95% of viral particles in lab test with aerosol spray, the P100 stops 99.7%. Not enough supply for everybody in world or USA, but if you watch Amazon they do pop up, and your going to pay 4x or more than they sold for 16 months ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwmachine View Post
    So someone coughs in your face with no mask is A-OK. Would you not rather they had a mask on? Would you not rather they cough away from you and cover their mouth? With hand, or mask? Is it not different?

    You've linked this one before. It's about the mask protecting the wearer. I realize now you are possibly mentally retarded so I'll ease up: the mask protects other people. Let's simplify for you- the mask helps. I appreciate that you are proud of yourself (and you should be! Good effort! Waffles for breakfast tomorrow!) for finding something that you think proves a (?) point. But you got everything wrong.
    where and when i grew up it was deemed to be very rude to cough into someone's face or even direction.
    no mask needed for that.
    the mask protects no one.
    on the contrary.
    just watch the mask wearing low intelligence people.
    they wear a mask and do not keep their distance from each other.
    they do feel they are safe because they are wearing a mask.
    if they come into contact with some one without a mask, they suddenly will start to keep their distance.
    meanwhile they forget that the only thing that does make a difference is avoiding close contact and crowded badly ventilated, rooms.
    that is why wearing masks is dangerous, people forget to keep their distance because the mask gives them a feeling of safety.
    the theory about wearing the mask to protect others you can forget, that is not how the psyche works.

    some of the machines in my shop could be a lot quieter, but i keep them as they are.
    you see, when i am not around, my son will sometimes come into the shop, and work with a machine.
    and as he has never had any real dangerous mishaps, or seen them occur up close, he sometimes tends to be too much at ease working a machine.
    a machine that makes a lot of racket will hopefully convey a message of danger and keep him alert to the possible danger.
    the same, but in the opposite direction, goes for masks

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    From what I see, P100 is the best, N95 only stops 95% of viral particles in lab test with aerosol spray, the P100 stops 99.7%. Not enough supply for everybody in world or USA, but if you watch Amazon they do pop up, and your going to pay 4x or more than they sold for 16 months ago.
    just a pity the real world is not a laboratory.
    if trained hospital professionals that wear them at work all day, every day, fuck up as much as they did, how do you think the average person in the street is going to do?
    besides those masks are supposed to protect the wearer....

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    just a pity the real world is not a laboratory.
    if trained hospital professionals that wear them at work all day, every day, fuck up as much as they did, how do you think the average person in the street is going to do?
    besides those masks are supposed to protect the wearer....
    The doctors and nurses are also dealing with fomites, and since there is no way to determine how they were infected, ie airborne/contact, mask effectiveness studies are useless. Some mask wearers may act the way you describe, but not all, including myself. You are right about the real world not being a laboratory, you can measure stuff and create full flow atomization in a lab, can't do that in the real world. When the world around you is acting like idiots, protect thy self, and I don't feel the slightest bit bad about it.

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    Over 24 hours ago I posted that 500,000 (aka 1/2 million) Americans - as in your fellow countrymen!! had died of covid, and not even so much as a comment, all you can do is argue anal points about mask types and politics.


    Has the USA and this PM forum no humanity whatsoever? ................or are you the complete shower selfish shit you've so clearly displayed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Over 24 hours ago I posted that 500,000 (aka 1/2 million) Americans - as in your fellow countrymen!! had died of covid, and not even so much as a comment, all you can do is argue anal points about mask types and politics.


    Has the USA and this PM forum no humanity whatsoever? ................or are you the complete shower selfish shit you've so clearly displayed.
    After a year in isolation avoiding those who don't care, no, I don't care anymore, that cup has run dry. I feel let down by my government, and my community. Honestly wishing it was 100% lethal, clean out the stupid and get over it.

    Good to hear you got some vax, maybe before another year passes they will get to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Over 24 hours ago I posted that 500,000 (aka 1/2 million) Americans - as in your fellow countrymen!! had died of covid, and not even so much as a comment, all you can do is argue anal points about mask types and politics.


    Has the USA and this PM forum no humanity whatsoever? ................or are you the complete shower selfish shit you've so clearly displayed.
    But Sami it’s all a hoax don’t you know anything

    Nah we are just really tired, and we have a surplus of idiots making things worse
    Me being a pessimist I think it’s going to be north of 700K before things settle down.
    Just grateful me and the wife get the second jab the 28th.

    And it’s still a small population that has actually been touched personally

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliaj00 View Post
    .... keep in mind that china dried the N95 mask inventory before WHO said anything.
    Wasn't really what happened. Of course with an extra 800 million users there were shortages for a while, but I only had trouble finding them for maybe a week. There were lines for a few days in a lot of smaller cities. This may have led to some stories.

    What happened next was that Italy and Spain went out and bought fakes through local middlemen, then people like straightedg.., err, 'standardparts' started throwing stones, so they enacted a bunch of additional requirements to mask export. That made shipments more difficult. There were still plenty, you just had to prove they were real NIOSH before you could get an export license.

    I have my doubts about the "mask shortage" thing anyhow since, as I mentioned before, through misguided altruism we offered to do the research and paperwork free to get masks into hands that had been crying they were desperate. Not one answer.

    I guess desperation is relative.

    Another funny thing is, many of the masks worn in China are made in Japan. They make these stylish things which girls like, and China has plenty of girls. In fact those come in N95 and N99, but stylish does not preclude cheapskate so I bet the oens sold are mostly the lower grade. Japan is a big supplier of masks tho, have these desperate people looked there ? All the little convenience stores in China carry them (in a couple of colors and sizes), can't be too hard to get.

    One thing that is kind of getting lost in the hubbub is that KN95 and N95 are functionally the same. The world is awash with KN95. I'd even bet that plenty of those "counterfeits" that TSA crows about are just KN95. The only real difference is the lack of NIOSH stickies on the box. One of the principals involved even said, "They looked the same and we tested them and everything ..." Well, if she tested them and they passed, seems likely that functionally they were the same, just not hospital-grade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    ... the complete shower selfish shit you've so clearly displayed.
    That's a really ugly picture, sami ! now I'm going to have a panic attack every time I turn on the shower

    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite
    Me being a pessimist I think it’s going to be north of 700K before things settle down.
    Has to. It's numbers, the outcome is according to the input and the input has already been entered. Like jumping off a cliff, you can change your mind all you like on the way down but the result is a given after that first stupid move.

    Hermain Cain most likely wished he'd stayed home, too, but oh well. Put a wish in one hand and shit in the other ...

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    A timely "Ticked off Vic", I could not have said it better, caution, you need a spit screen
    Ticked Off Vic: Amish, Oil, Covid and Morons | VicDiBitetto.net - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Over 24 hours ago I posted that 500,000 (aka 1/2 million) Americans - as in your fellow countrymen!! had died of covid, and not even so much as a comment, all you can do is argue anal points about mask types and politics.


    Has the USA and this PM forum no humanity whatsoever? ................or are you the complete shower selfish shit you've so clearly displayed.
    in the same time how many children all over the world died of starvation or easily cured diseases?
    where is your indignation about that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    in the same time how many children all over the world died of starvation or easily cured diseases?
    where is your indignation about that?
    That situation is not as easily fixed by just not being stupid.

    There are real-world examples of places which just dealt with it, and did fairly well. Much better than either the US or the UK ... or Sweden.

    @dalmatian : Vic needs a bit of masking under the best of circumstances, I guess

    Funny for sure

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    till about 12mins, alls worth a watch tho imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Over 24 hours ago I posted that 500,000 (aka 1/2 million) Americans - as in your fellow countrymen!! had died of covid, and not even so much as a comment, all you can do is argue anal points about mask types and politics.


    Has the USA and this PM forum no humanity whatsoever? ................or are you the complete shower selfish shit you've so clearly displayed.
    Ok This is really a wrong perception and rather judgmental. To me it is obvious that you are this hard on yourself also because you project it so easily on others just kind of blurting it out. There is nothing much one can do about false perceptions except to stop and think if whether you are mislabeling a situation for yourself or as it regards others.

    What it boils down to is that the fact is that all which you see is human suffering and not evil intent. I know this may be difficult yet really the problem/issue is right between your two ears.

    Numbers FYI.

    Coronavirus chart: see how your country compares | Free to read | Financial Times

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Over 24 hours ago I posted that 500,000 (aka 1/2 million) Americans - as in your fellow countrymen!! had died of covid, and not even so much as a comment, all you can do is argue anal points about mask types and politics.


    Has the USA and this PM forum no humanity whatsoever? ................or are you the complete shower selfish shit you've so clearly displayed.
    I, for one, don't really know how to put in words the sorrow I feel over mass deaths. I know how to do it over singular instances. At my age I have lost both parents and many friends, but over a period of years. Never so many over such a short period of time. I grieve in private and am pretty much emotionless in public, so while it may appear that I don't give a damn, I really do.

    As an aside, good for you on getting the vaccine. The fact that you are still alive to tell about it may put some of the vax deniers on here in their place, coming from a PM member and not from some nutcase on the fringes.


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