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  1. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Is retaliation the definition of a totalitarian state ? In that case, the US tops the list and the rest of the west is not far behind. Al Qaeda downed the world trade center, the US invaded Iraq. Washington didn't even retaliate against the perpetrators - and also to the point, despite demonstrations by hundreds of thousands, they lied to congress, lied to the populace, lied to the UN, then invaded a country which had done nothing. So much for democracy and the will of the people and all that good stuff you think you have.

    Agreed, China has taken to retaliation, because now they can. Canada did not have the balls to tell the US to fuck off and die. Maybe next time you will. Same with Australia. The US has pulled that mafia-muscle shit for far too long, all around the world.

    Fuck the US, and the horse they rode in on. Assange, for instance. Empire can go to hell, the US is not in charge of the world. Luckily for the rest of the world, because the rulers the US supports are the most vicious, evil scum to walk the planet, almost without exception.

    If I were you guys ? I'd find a better ally. Or maybe even just go it alone. Hooking up with Whitey Bulger isn't really necessary.

    @ Georgineer : you'd perhaps like Roger Zelazny, "Dilvish the Damned" series. Or at least the horse therein
    Not surprised he would not elaborate on what he thought totalitarian meant. Maybe this is a temporary derailment. Going right to specific all alleged proofs of which are lacking by the way, serves no purpose unless you give us your complete definition first in total. You did hood for a bit at least explaining how you understand it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Is retaliation the definition of a totalitarian state ? In that case, the US tops the list and the rest of the west is not far behind. Al Qaeda downed the world trade center, the US invaded Iraq. Washington didn't even retaliate against the perpetrators - and also to the point, despite demonstrations by hundreds of thousands, they lied to congress, lied to the populace, lied to the UN, then invaded a country which had done nothing. So much for democracy and the will of the people and all that good stuff you think you have.

    Agreed, China has taken to retaliation, because now they can. Canada did not have the balls to tell the US to fuck off and die. Maybe next time you will. Same with Australia. The US has pulled that mafia-muscle shit for far too long, all around the world.

    Fuck the US, and the horse they rode in on. Assange, for instance. Empire can go to hell, the US is not in charge of the world. Luckily for the rest of the world, because the rulers the US supports are the most vicious, evil scum to walk the planet, almost without exception.

    If I were you guys ? I'd find a better ally. Or maybe even just go it alone. Hooking up with Whitey Bulger isn't really necessary.

    @ Georgineer : you'd perhaps like Roger Zelazny, "Dilvish the Damned" series. Or at least the horse therein

    Agreed, it's a tricky situation when a smaller country gets between two superpowers, hopefully with the change in the US government we can settle this thing.

    When a country arrests, detains and even executes anyone at will tho just because they can, for retaliation or not, isn't that the definition of totalitarian state?

    Russia and Navalny also Saudi Arabia and Jamal Khashoggi come to mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    When a country arrests, detains and even executes anyone at will tho just because they can, for retaliation or not, isn't that the definition of totalitarian state?
    Does this not apply to the US as well ? Are you aware of how many foreign leaders the US has assassinated ? How many has China killed or even attempted to kill ? Does that make the US ten times as totalitarian as China ? Twenty ? Fifty ?

    Domestically, shall we start with Fred Hampton ?

    If you are going to be impartial ..... there is no evil of which the US accuses China, where they are not ten times as guilty. That's why I am kinda interested to hear a definition of "totalitarian" that excludes the US.

    Factually, there isn't one

    (btw, by the criteria you mention, Israel would be one of the world's most totalitarian countries. Yes ? And there was a certain Mr bin Laden, who was enjoying a nightcap when he was murdered ...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Does this not apply to the US as well ? Are you aware of how many foreign leaders the US has assassinated ? How many has China killed or even attempted to kill ? Does that make the US ten times as totalitarian as China ? Twenty ? Fifty ?

    Domestically, shall we start with Fred Hampton ?

    If you are going to be impartial ..... there is no evil of which the US accuses China, where they are not ten times as guilty. That's why I am kinda interested to hear a definition of "totalitarian" that excludes the US.

    Factually, there isn't one

    (btw, by the criteria you mention, Israel would be one of the world's most totalitarian countries. Yes ? And there was a certain Mr bin Laden, who was enjoying a nightcap when he was murdered ...)

    I do see your point to a degree, being completely impartial I guess that any country that goes around forcing it's will on others is totalitarian to some degree.

    This has been the history of the world forever tho, hasn't it? Maybe it's just human nature for one group to want to dominate and control another? And when a country gets big enough and powerful enough they do?

    Humans really are a screwed up species...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    This has been the history of the world forever tho, hasn't it? Maybe it's just human nature for one group to want to dominate and control another? And when a country gets big enough and powerful enough they do?
    No dispute with that at all (although historically China has gone a different way - instead of tromping on other countries, they generally figured they were so rich and powerful the other countries could come to them and genuflect.)

    My beef is with the throwing of stones, when the throwers are ten times as guilty of sin. I'm still waiting for a definition of totalitarian that doesn't make the US ten times as much.

    Glass houses, anyone ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Is retaliation the definition of a totalitarian state ?
    the oldest trick in the book.
    do not answer a question but rephrase it, leaving out the essence of the original question as in the "law" and "can" part.
    then pretend to answer the question as you rephrased it.
    do not actually answer but do a "whatabout".

    i must admit it's one step up from simply shouting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    My beef is with the throwing of stones, when the throwers are ten times as guilty of sin. I'm still waiting for a definition of totalitarian that doesn't make the US ten times as much.

    Glass houses, anyone ?
    I call BS. Its a poor show for someone to take any negative comment about the country they live in personally, as if its all a reflection of them. As if you're never suppose to say anything because the assfucks running the country you live in aren't without sin. You didn't make China what it is anymore than you made the US what it is. You don't speak for China or the US anymore than I do for Canada (or that matter than our asswipe leader speaks for me). We're individuals, bystanders entertaining ourselves with observation and opinions of varying levels of accuracy...so I'll throw (metaphorical and mostly harmless) stones where ever the hell I want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    No dispute with that at all (although historically China has gone a different way - instead of tromping on other countries, they generally figured they were so rich and powerful the other countries could come to them and genuflect.)

    My beef is with the throwing of stones, when the throwers are ten times as guilty of sin. I'm still waiting for a definition of totalitarian that doesn't make the US ten times as much.

    Glass houses, anyone ?
    Mussolini coined the term and developed fascism. “ Italian dictator Benito Mussolini coined the term totalitario in the early 1920s to characterize the new fascist state of Italy, which he further described as “all within the state, none outside the state, none against the state.” By the beginning of World War II, totalitarian had become synonymous with absolute and ...”

    From Encyclopedia Britannica ; where the partial quote is from.

    There they list several regimes and not the United States which has at the very least two or more parties.
    totalitarianism | Definition, Examples, & Facts | Britannica

    A list of them in history some countries have slipped off the list. From Wikipedia. List of totalitarian regimes - Wikipedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    No dispute with that at all (although historically China has gone a different way - instead of tromping on other countries, they generally figured they were so rich and powerful the other countries could come to them and genuflect.)

    My beef is with the throwing of stones, when the throwers are ten times as guilty of sin. I'm still waiting for a definition of totalitarian that doesn't make the US ten times as much.

    Glass houses, anyone ?
    Authoritarianism - Wikipedia

    Totalitarianism - Wikipedia


    darn, i forgot you are a victim of them and cannot access the source.
    but you know what i mean anyhow....

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    darn, i forgot you are a victim of them and cannot access the source.
    but you know what i mean anyhow....
    I don't need wikipedia definitions, dipshit. It's generally crap written by precocious twelve year olds.

    It is good for an overview of oddball subjects, halfway accurate biographies, and a lot of other trivia tho, so I often use it as a first stop when looking up something arcane.

    Some idiots make claims that are stupid as well as untrue. Again, demonstrating that what you know about China wouldn't fill one of the Borrower's thimbles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I don't need wikipedia definitions, dipshit. It's generally crap written by precocious twelve year olds.

    It is good for an overview of oddball subjects, halfway accurate biographies, and a lot of other trivia tho, so I often use it as a first stop when looking up something arcane.

    Some idiots make claims that are stupid as well as untrue. Again, demonstrating that what you know about China wouldn't fill one of the Borrower's thimbles.
    looking something up?
    behind the great wall?
    well all the info you will get has been screened to make sure it is in concordance with the official point of view.
    you do know that what you get is somewhat biased?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    (btw, by the criteria you mention, Israel would be one of the world's most totalitarian countries. Yes ? And there was a certain Mr bin Laden, who was enjoying a nightcap when he was murdered ...)
    Israel is surrounded by larger countries that would love to destroy it. Not kidding, they want to end both the country and the citizens. It's a bit like the USA being between a vastly larger Mexico and Canada, with all their citizens having a religious doctrine that makes it OK to murder you.

    It's not a fun position to be in, and would make one's attitude about many things rather hard. Existential threats (as in, literally existential threats) will do that to you...

    Oh, and that nice Mr. Bin Laden? Fucker got exactly what he had coming to him, except he died a little to quickly. Some folks make me wish for reincarnation, just so they can be ended again. And again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Israel is surrounded by larger countries that would love to destroy it. Not kidding, they want to end both the country and the citizens.
    and why would that be?
    there is not that much difference between nazi germany and israel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    augustine plagues?
    now why does wikipedia not turn up a result?
    as you claim people wrote about it, could you please direct me to their writings?
    If you have to rely on Wikipedia, you're uneducated.

    Those plagues happened, they were well documented at the time.

    I did 4 years of Latin in high school, if you weren't well educated then and still aren't, that's on you.

    Anyway it's a diversion you're trying to pull - we KNOW the low tech way of stopping pandemics spreading, it's just that far, far too many US citizens are lazy, uneducated, selfish and thoughtless. IOW fuck you Jack I'm all right raised to the Nth degree.

    And your death rate keeps right on rising. The really sad thing it that it's not just killing the stupid & selfish, that would be a great improvement for the survivors.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    and why would that be?
    there is not that much difference between nazi germany and israel.
    I can't tell if you're working hard to be an idiot, or it just comes naturally to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Israel is surrounded by larger countries that would love to destroy it.
    Be that as it may, Mill, if the definition of a totalitarian state is a country that arrests and/or murders people "just because they can" then Israel and the US fit neatly into that box.

    That was not my definition, by the way, I'm just working with what I was given.

    Oh, and that nice Mr. Bin Laden? Fucker got exactly what he had coming to him, except he died a little to quickly.
    Ends justifies the means ?

    By the way, do you remember the entire bin Laden story ? It's not as one-sided as you think ...

    Quote Originally Posted by PDW
    And your death rate keeps right on rising.
    Entertainingly, the US daily deaths graph peaked right about January 20, which just happens to be ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    A thought and question.

    If, when the Covid 19 first broke out, had the Republican President and resident of the White House, said and done some thing similar to this.

    It's a new virus and we don't know much about it, but it kills people so we are going to treat it with respect.

    He then goes on to list hygene and social distancing measures etc etc, and finishes off with something like ''It looks like wearing a mask helps prevent the disease spreading - if only a little, but I think it's a case of every little bit helps.

    Now I don't want to wear a mask, as I'm sure many of you don't, .....but I'm going to and I advise you do the same etc etc '' (aka schmoozing the public)

    ''Together my fellow Americans we can beat this virus'' etc etc ...........the broadcast ends with President putting on a mask and getting down to work.


    If that or similar had been said, .......what would have been the present situation and death toll?
    It would have helped then the it’s a hoax crowd would be much smaller.
    Early mandatory quarantine of incoming international travelers could have slowed it also.

    Notice how the tone changed in Britain once Boris caught covid.
    Think if Trump had caught it earlier like Boris, would be talking about the Pence administration probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    If you have to rely on Wikipedia, you're uneducated.

    Those plagues happened, they were well documented at the time.

    I did 4 years of Latin in high school, if you weren't well educated then and still aren't, that's on you.

    Anyway it's a diversion you're trying to pull - we KNOW the low tech way of stopping pandemics spreading, it's just that far, far too many US citizens are lazy, uneducated, selfish and thoughtless. IOW fuck you Jack I'm all right raised to the Nth degree.

    And your death rate keeps right on rising. The really sad thing it that it's not just killing the stupid & selfish, that would be a great improvement for the survivors.

    PDW
    no augustine plagues happened.
    the antonine plagues did, be it some 200 years after augustus died......

    not a diversion, just proof that he does not know what he is talking about.

    all we know is, that there is no reasonable way to stop an airborne, highly infectious, disease from spreading.
    if there were, then why do illnesses like the flu still exist in countries that are not inhabited by lazy stupid people?
    most years quite a lot of people die of the flu.
    it has been the case for decades.
    if masks and whatever measures one can take, would keep this highly deadly disease at bay then why is it not done?

    you having had such a good education will be capable of reading this: Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses - PubMed
    i will summarise it for you: there is no proof masks do actually work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    It would have helped then the it’s a hoax crowd would be much smaller.
    Early mandatory quarantine of incoming international travelers could have slowed it also.

    Notice how the tone changed in Britain once Boris caught covid.
    Think if Trump had caught it earlier like Boris, would be talking about the Pence administration probably.
    if trump caught it, why did he get vaccinated in january?
    you also believe he took hydrocychloroquin like he claimed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    That was not my definition, by the way, I'm just working with what I was given.

    ok then, let's have your definition, as you seem to have one.

    i bet you will not produce it, just like the answers to the questions put to you never came.


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