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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    I can't tell if you're working hard to be an idiot, or it just comes naturally to you.
    completely naturally.
    why do you ask, do you have to put a lot of effort into it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    if trump caught it, why did he get vaccinated in january?
    you also believe he took hydrocychloroquin like he claimed?
    Umm pretty sure if his lips were moving he was telling a lie.
    Why did Trump do anything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    no augustine plagues happened.
    the antonine plagues did, be it some 200 years after augustus died......

    not a diversion, just proof that he does not know what he is talking about.
    You witless little piece of shit, to mistake one roman name for another after fifty years does not change the essence of the statement one whit. There were plagues in ancient rome and one way they dealt with them was by having quarantines. The statement was correct, I got augustus mixed with antoninus, big fucking deal. You can use wikipedia, I am so impressed.

    all we know is, that there is no reasonable way to stop an airborne, highly infectious, disease from spreading.
    Except China, New Zealand, and Australia (among others) just did it. There is no way a bumblebee can fly, either.

    you having had such a good education will be capable of reading this: Physical interventions to interrupt or reduce the spread of respiratory viruses - PubMed
    i will summarise it for you: there is no proof masks do actually work.
    Because, moron, you are looking under the wrong rock. Masks work in the same way that dampers do in a chain reaction : they slow the transmission of the disease. Beyond that, all medical literature and all practical experience demonstrates that yes indeed, masks do help control an airborne infectious disease. This has been widely demonstrated since the flu epidemic of 1918 and has once again been demonstrated by the numbers in the US.

    Simply put, you are full of shit. As usual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    You witless little piece of shit, to mistake one roman name for another after fifty years does not change the essence of the statement one whit. There were plagues in ancient rome and one way they dealt with them was by having quarantines. The statement was correct, I got augustus mixed with antoninus, big fucking deal. You can use wikipedia, I am so impressed.


    Except China, New Zealand, and Australia (among others) just did it. There is no way a bumblebee can fly, either.


    Because, moron, you are looking under the wrong rock. Masks work in the same way that dampers do in a chain reaction : they slow the transmission of the disease. Beyond that, all medical literature and all practical experience demonstrates that yes indeed, masks do help control an airborne infectious disease. This has been widely demonstrated since the flu epidemic of 1918 and has once again been demonstrated by the numbers in the US.

    Simply put, you are full of shit. As usual.
    i could not find any mention of quarantine during the antonine plague, maybe you could direct me?

    during the 541 AD justianus plague, Constantinopel was complete shut off from the outside world.
    so one could call that a quarantine i guess.
    non christians were forbidden to take part in all kinds of activities as it was known that the non christians spread the disease..
    yet some 40% of its inhabitants died.

    you are aware of the fact that australia and new zealand have rather deep and wide moats around them, and that they are situated at the end of the world?

    you are aware of the meaning of "reasonable" ?
    or do you suggest to dig around countries that happen to not be islands, or lay mine fields around them?

    the scientists that wrote the piece i referred to are just a bunch of hacks then?
    let me guess, you did not read it, now did you?
    you know better because all medical literature and practical experience...
    right, as if you have read any medical literature.
    and how did you gain knowledge of the practical experience, you are some kind of scientist yourself?

    but keep on shouting
    i am not impressed by it, and it shows the readers whom they are dealing with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    i could not find any mention of quarantine during the antonine plague, maybe you could direct me?

    during the 541 AD justianus plague, Constantinopel was complete shut off from the outside world.
    so one could call that a quarantine i guess.
    non christians were forbidden to take part in all kinds of activities as it was known that the non christians spread the disease..
    yet some 40% of its inhabitants died.

    you are aware of the fact that australia and new zealand have rather deep and wide moats around them, and that they are situated at the end of the world?

    you are aware of the meaning of "reasonable" ?
    or do you suggest to dig around countries that happen to not be islands, or lay mine fields around them?

    the scientists that wrote the piece i referred to are just a bunch of hacks then?
    let me guess, you did not read it, now did you?
    you know better because all medical literature and practical experience...
    right, as if you have read any medical literature.
    and how did you gain knowledge of the practical experience, you are some kind of scientist yourself?

    but keep on shouting
    i am not impressed by it, and it shows the readers whom they are dealing with.
    “you are aware of the fact that australia and new zealand have rather deep and wide moats around them, and that they are situated at the end of the world?

    Glad you mention that as Japan, and South Korea were able to effectively combat it. S Korea is isolated by ocean on three sides and the DMZ provides just as good a barrier to the North=isolated. Same with Japan. England has a very narrow channel with wide travel into Europe even it has the Chunnel. Exposure to new infections are great. Free land travel is mostly within South Korea and Japan perhaps not on as high a level as say the US and Europe.

    Wuhan itself is in fact rather isolated because contrary to EG’s exaggerations personal freedom to travel in China is restricted as it being a Communist state.

    They are correctly labeled a totalitarian state with only one approved ruling dogma and that is Communism. They are highly controlling and restrictive in many things still.

    These countries were likely in the past also then rather isolated from pandemic effects due to geography. I see the State of Texas here in the US is opening up and cancelling the mask mandate.

    Therefore please explain how they are making a huge mistake with the masks and with opening up. Are they inviting disaster? Any bold predictions from the big mouth country bumpkins?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Wuhan itself is in fact rather isolated because contrary to EG’s exaggerations personal freedom to travel in China is restricted as it being a Communist state.
    Oh, stick it. There must be fifty flights a day easy from Wuhan all over, there's thirty 200 mph trains per day just between shanghai and wuhan, schedule below

    https://www.travelchinaguide.com/chi...n-shanghai.htm

    there's buses and private cars and probably even boats (I've never taken a boat) ... "freedom to travel is restricted" you're crazy. The only restriction is your ability to buy a ticket. Prices maybe on that page also, shanghai - wuhan about $45. I didn't look up beijing or chengdu or xizang or guangzhou, you can do that for yourself.

    They run these things for fun ?

    https://youtu.be/IJj0v1XUjUs

    Don't be so ridiculous.

    Compared to air ? No contest !

    https://youtu.be/sPi1XNTwy-Y

    Wuhan isolated ? Sometimes, True, you need a reality check

    https://youtu.be/ulzSY_2pm70

    Face it, you're just jealous of our way of life ... but if you spent less invading other countries, you could have nice things too (have to admit have never ridden "business class" ... no need, second is good enough for us shop rats )

    https://youtu.be/xvytUaRs2dU

    Interesting : you could do this also if you ditched the worthless military ...

    https://youtu.be/aXo7wi488Eo

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    Quote Originally Posted by janvanruth View Post
    i could not find any mention of quarantine during the antonine plague, maybe you could direct me?

    during the 541 AD justianus plague, Constantinopel was complete shut off from the outside world.
    so one could call that a quarantine i guess.
    non christians were forbidden to take part in all kinds of activities as it was known that the non christians spread the disease..
    yet some 40% of its inhabitants died.
    That was what is called a Cordon Sanitaire, where a particular region is cordoned off to prevent disease from spreading. A quarantine on the other hand is the isolation of individuals or groups who are either known to be infected or known to have had contact with infected individuals. The current "lockdown" concept of quarantining entire populations is unknown in history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    The current "lockdown" concept of quarantining entire populations is unknown in history.
    Exactly. Because a new Goodyear tire can run safely at 120 mph, the wheel is unknown in history.

    btw, you're full of crap. There was a town in Colorado ? that reverse-quarantined the entire world in 1918-ish. If you got off the train, they shot you.

    The concept is known.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    You witless little piece of shit, to mistake one roman name for another after fifty years does not change the essence of the statement one whit. There were plagues in ancient rome and one way they dealt with them was by having quarantines. The statement was correct, I got augustus mixed with antoninus, big fucking deal. You can use wikipedia, I am so impressed.


    Except China, New Zealand, and Australia (among others) just did it. There is no way a bumblebee can fly, either.


    Because, moron, you are looking under the wrong rock. Masks work in the same way that dampers do in a chain reaction : they slow the transmission of the disease. Beyond that, all medical literature and all practical experience demonstrates that yes indeed, masks do help control an airborne infectious disease. This has been widely demonstrated since the flu epidemic of 1918 and has once again been demonstrated by the numbers in the US.

    Simply put, you are full of shit. As usual.

    I truly believe that you are the toughest computer guy on this site.


    Now back to the china suckfest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    That was what is called a Cordon Sanitaire, where a particular region is cordoned off to prevent disease from spreading. A quarantine on the other hand is the isolation of individuals or groups who are either known to be infected or known to have had contact with infected individuals. The current "lockdown" concept of quarantining entire populations is unknown in history.
    I think you'll find that all 'Cordon Sanitaires' are the same, just like all 'masks' are the same, everything is the same same as long as it aligns with narrative of the individuals belief, then it's just a question of calling all other views idiotic, then the world can breathe easy through a couple mask layers that are 95% effective cos someone said so 🤡.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    “you are aware of the fact that australia and new zealand have rather deep and wide moats around them, and that they are situated at the end of the world?

    Glad you mention that as Japan, and South Korea were able to effectively combat it. S Korea is isolated by ocean on three sides and the DMZ provides just as good a barrier to the North=isolated. Same with Japan. England has a very narrow channel with wide travel into Europe even it has the Chunnel. Exposure to new infections are great. Free land travel is mostly within South Korea and Japan perhaps not on as high a level as say the US and Europe.

    Wuhan itself is in fact rather isolated because contrary to EG’s exaggerations personal freedom to travel in China is restricted as it being a Communist state.

    They are correctly labeled a totalitarian state with only one approved ruling dogma and that is Communism. They are highly controlling and restrictive in many things still.

    These countries were likely in the past also then rather isolated from pandemic effects due to geography. I see the State of Texas here in the US is opening up and cancelling the mask mandate.

    Therefore please explain how they are making a huge mistake with the masks and with opening up. Are they inviting disaster? Any bold predictions from the big mouth country bumpkins?
    china left communism behind it a long time ago.
    it did return to feudalism.
    the emperor grants the lords the right to exploit a part of the country/populous in return for obedience and support.
    and if you are not obedient enough or not supportive enough you just disappear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning
    Wuhan itself is in fact rather isolated because contrary to EG’s exaggerations personal freedom to travel in China is restricted as it being a Communist state.
    Usual fact-free empty container assertions. A couple I haven't seen for a long time, attended a world sporting meet in Wuhan at the end of October 2019, even the US was represented! They did the tourist thing and travelled around unimpeded in China post event. Found out recently, one half caught beer flu whist there - she recovered fortunately.

    Moat or no, with an estimate of just under 5% of Au citizens living overseas at any one time and several thousand returning per week, inbound quarantine and yes, for Demon and janvanruth, the use of those terribly ineffective masks when required, have things largely under control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Oh, stick it. There must be fifty flights a day easy from Wuhan all over, there's thirty 200 mph trains per day just between shanghai and wuhan, schedule below

    https://www.travelchinaguide.com/chi...n-shanghai.htm

    there's buses and private cars and probably even boats (I've never taken a boat) ... "freedom to travel is restricted" you're crazy. The only restriction is your ability to buy a ticket. Prices maybe on that page also, shanghai - wuhan about $45. I didn't look up beijing or chengdu or xizang or guangzhou, you can do that for yourself.

    They run these things for fun ?

    https://youtu.be/IJj0v1XUjUs

    Don't be so ridiculous.

    Compared to air ? No contest !

    https://youtu.be/sPi1XNTwy-Y

    Wuhan isolated ? Sometimes, True, you need a reality check

    https://youtu.be/ulzSY_2pm70

    Face it, you're just jealous of our way of life ... but if you spent less invading other countries, you could have nice things too (have to admit have never ridden "business class" ... no need, second is good enough for us shop rats )

    https://youtu.be/xvytUaRs2dU

    Interesting : you could do this also if you ditched the worthless military ...

    https://youtu.be/aXo7wi488Eo
    No not jealous. I find it interesting. It would explain why a lockdown would be more effective in Wuhan for the government. Just ground airplanes and stop the trains while minimizing public transportation. Vacation from work there is usually taken for holidays and many people I have heard like to take leave around similar times. Is that the case?

    I do know that travel internationally was allowed to proceed during the height of the Wuhan lockdown.

    At any rate there are many people in China who do have travel restrictions for various reasons which the State has concerns over and it is highly monitored.

    Consider this.

    “ There is new evidence to show that China locked down all domestic traffic internally by end January 2020 but pushed to open foreign travel till end March. Data from Tom Tom traffic index, a traffic location site that covers 416 cities across 57 countries show that as a result of this strategy, China, intentionally or otherwise, was able to lockdown its cities unknown to the world. While this reduced the spread of the Corona virus within China, China’s aggressive foreign travel policy lead to a virus explosion worldwide. Here is the chronological events of what happened with the requisite traffic data from 10 major cities globally and the statements from Chinese leaders that will help readers reach their own conclusions.”

    From article; https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...oreign-travel/

    And now this letter describing travel in China.


    Haoran Li, works at Macau University of Science and Technology
    Answered 1 year ago · Author has 201 answers and 55.5K answer views
    Yes for all, no matter Han or not Han. Because 2019 is not 2011. Safety and other situations are all changed. Back to 1980s, when China was allied with America, nobody can travel safely. But everything changes every year.

    There are non-Han Chinese who are having slight limitations for traveling, but that's a case by case issue: Han Chinese living in Xin-Jiang are facing the same limitations as other ethnic groups living in Xin-Jiang.

    There are non-Han people who are limited insignificantly from traveling but that's because their background record. Han Chinese would face exactly the same problem if their background record are also have troubles. It's not depends on one's ethnicity, but depends on the individual background case by case.

    In general, People's Republic of China shows better racial and gender equality than USA, Japan, and Taiwan.”


    Obviously it must be better and yet Communism true to form wishes to micromanage a lot and to control. They just have more money to do that when they discard a good part of their dogma as in embracing some capitalistic reforms. It feeds on itself basically. They can not bring themselves the will to change away from Communism even when partially doing so brings vast rewards.

    The poor guy who wrote that letter was just one example of another reality. What is on the level with China? One must ask are they for real? We already know the news and internet are highly monitored and controlled. The very nature of a Communist state is control actually too much - over reaching control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillE View Post
    Usual fact-free empty container assertions. A couple I haven't seen for a long time, attended a world sporting meet in Wuhan at the end of October 2019, even the US was represented! They did the tourist thing and travelled around unimpeded in China post event. Found out recently, one half caught beer flu whist there - she recovered fortunately.

    Moat or no, with an estimate of just under 5% of Au citizens living overseas at any one time and several thousand returning per week, inbound quarantine and yes, for Demon and janvanruth, the use of those terribly ineffective masks when required, have things largely under control.
    Glad you had no problems. Usually travel from abroad is moving well. During the lockdown in Wuhan such travel was not hindered in any way and Americans returned home. The virus spread to different parts of the world notably where citizens traveled from Wuhan to their home country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Glad you had no problems. Usually travel from abroad is moving well. During the lockdown in Wuhan such travel was not hindered in any way and Americans returned home. The virus spread to different parts of the world notably where citizens traveled from Wuhan to their home country.
    Well that was the plan control at home, and make sure it got exported
    Economic war by pandemic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    During the lockdown in Wuhan such travel was not hindered in any way and Americans returned home.
    I would be interested to hear how you know this. I was not in Wuhan, but I did travel a little in Zhejiang at the very beginning. I know that as of January 23 there were no busses in or out of wuhan, no trains in or out, and private cars were not allowed either. A short time later other cities were shut off as well. I made the cutoff back into Shanghai by one day, and had to fly to Hong Kong ahead of the shutdowns scared to death that I'd get stuck. That was february 2. Flights were being closed left and right, there were very few international flights still going and Spring was the only one flying into Hong Kong. Two or three days later that was stopped as well.

    So, as a person who was locked in

    hallpass.jpg

    could you please tell me how these Americans were flying home ? 'cuz as of Jan 23 in wuhan, and slightly later everywhere else, there were no busses, trains, or airplanes and they stopped every car on the highways. I have photos of this also, the silly girlfriend waited too long to come back. The trick was, you were free to leave a city (driving) but they wouldn't let you in to the place you wanted to go unless you had a reeeeeally good excuse. And if you did have a reeealy good excuse, you got tracked. Taiwan and Hong Kong were actually worse, people there got ankle bracelets and democratic libertarian Taiwan was using cellphone data. Every single car was checked for several weeks at the toll gates (all the highways in China are toll roads.)

    Another point is, if there were some form of transportation available - walking ? - how do you think the China government should have stopped foreigners from leaving ? Put them in camps ? That would go over well.

    Mr Xi telephoned the Trump at this time and told him what he knew, and told him the disease was dangerous. We know that because Mr Trump said so.

    What else would you have them do ? Put all the foreigners in jail, just in case one found some method to slip out ? In fact, as I remember, several countries ran special airplanes in to retrieve groups of foreigners who were stranded. If they couldn't figure out that possibly these people should be quarantined, umm ....

    The virus spread to different parts of the world notably where citizens traveled from Wuhan to their home country.
    Before they knew it existed, yes. And given that airlines have records of who flew on their airplanes, the SENSIBLE thing to do when this started would have been to backtrace those people and isolate them, not by their passport but by where they had been, and watch their neighborhoods carefully for signs of the disease. This worked where it was done. At the time it seemed to me a gigantic undertaking, but compared to what you guys did (nothing) and what the results were (chaos), it was worth it.

    You had the example. You had several examples. You didn't do shit. In fact, you listened to the stupidest of the stupiid, and allowed the damn thing to spin way out of control because you're fucking idiots. (Approximately 47% Certified, which is plenty to spread a very contagious disease everywhere.)

    The first few weeks is on Wuhan, and by extension China, but after that ? You fucked the pooch real good all on your own. Anything after February 9 (the date they closed the entire country of 1.4 billion people. You thought this was some kind of April Fool's joke or something ?) is all on you.

    And yeah, it's not about passive kowtowing commies or self-reliant freedom-loving marlboro men of the world. Australia and New Zealand managed fine. You're just morons, that's all there is to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I would be interested to hear how you know this. I was not in Wuhan, but I did travel a little in Zhejiang at the very beginning. I know that as of January 23 there were no busses in or out of wuhan, no trains in or out, and private cars were not allowed either. A short time later other cities were shut off as well. I made the cutoff back into Shanghai by one day, and had to fly to Hong Kong ahead of the shutdowns scared to death that I'd get stuck. That was february 2. Flights were being closed left and right, there were very few international flights still going and Spring was the only one flying into Hong Kong. Two or three days later that was stopped as well.

    So, as a person who was locked in


    could you please tell me how these Americans were flying home ? 'cuz as of Jan 23 in wuhan, and slightly later everywhere else, there were no busses, trains, or airplanes and they stopped every car on the highways. I have photos of this also, the silly girlfriend waited too long to come back. The trick was, you were free to leave a city (driving) but they wouldn't let you in to the place you wanted to go unless you had a reeeeeally good excuse. And if you did have a reeealy good excuse, you got tracked. Taiwan and Hong Kong were actually worse, people there got ankle bracelets and democratic libertarian Taiwan was using cellphone data. Every single car was checked for several weeks at the toll gates (all the highways in China are toll roads.)

    Another point is, if there were some form of transportation available - walking ? - how do you think the China government should have stopped foreigners from leaving ? Put them in camps ? That would go over well.

    Mr Xi telephoned the Trump at this time and told him what he knew, and told him the disease was dangerous. We know that because Mr Trump said so.

    What else would you have them do ? Put all the foreigners in jail, just in case one found some method to slip out ? In fact, as I remember, several countries ran special airplanes in to retrieve groups of foreigners who were stranded. If they couldn't figure out that possibly these people should be quarantined, umm ....


    Before they knew it existed, yes. And given that airlines have records of who flew on their airplanes, the SENSIBLE thing to do when this started would have been to backtrace those people and isolate them, not by their passport but by where they had been, and watch their neighborhoods carefully for signs of the disease. This worked where it was done. At the time it seemed to me a gigantic undertaking, but compared to what you guys did (nothing) and what the results were (chaos), it was worth it.

    You had the example. You had several examples. You didn't do shit. In fact, you listened to the stupidest of the stupiid, and allowed the damn thing to spin way out of control because you're fucking idiots. (Approximately 47% Certified, which is plenty to spread a very contagious disease everywhere.)

    The first few weeks is on Wuhan, and by extension China, but after that ? You fucked the pooch real good all on your own. Anything after February 9 (the date they closed the entire country of 1.4 billion people. You thought this was some kind of April Fool's joke or something ?) is all on you.

    And yeah, it's not about passive kowtowing commies or self-reliant freedom-loving marlboro men of the world. Australia and New Zealand managed fine. You're just morons, that's all there is to it.
    Such travel being international flights. That was a lot of persons returning to their home countries. True none were quarantined when they got home and the Pres eventually shut travel down.

    I mean too it obviously spread from Wuhan and neither one of us were there and neither of us are experts on the subject. I quoted a good article earlier about the timeline of the spread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    Such travel being international flights. That was a lot of persons returning to their home countries.
    There were flights up until early February. After that, no. As I said, I was IN the damn airports on Feb 2 and watching the boards, and it was scary. All I needed was to get stuck indefinitely in Hong Kong.

    And yes, Mr Trump did erect barriers to entry - for non-US passports. Like, the only people who can catch this are non-Americans ? That was the stupidest move I have yet seen. Citizens were asked "Do you have a dangerous disease ? if so, check this box yes and we will quarantine you." Like, who in their right mind would do that ? Returning people remarked on that at the time.

    True none were quarantined when they got home and the Pres eventually shut travel down.
    He never shut down travel ... he closed entry to foreign passports. Hint : the virus doesn't check passports.

    I mean too it obviously spread from Wuhan and neither one of us were there and neither of us are experts on the subject.
    I was a hell of a lot closer than you, hip. And as a shanghai and zhejiang resident, I have a little better information on what went on in Chinese cities than you.

    I quoted a good article earlier about the timeline of the spread.
    Semi-good. There are several outright lies in there. I'm not going to go through this date by date, item by item, already have sveral times and it didn't matter, y'all have your idees fixe and that's how it is. But if you wanted you could look back to old posts.

    Excuses and stories is fine for the kiddies but fact is, you fucked the pooch. Own it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    There were flights up until early February. After that, no. As I said, I was IN the damn airports on Feb 2 and watching the boards, and it was scary. All I needed was to get stuck indefinitely in Hong Kong.

    And yes, Mr Trump did erect barriers to entry - for non-US passports. Like, the only people who can catch this are non-Americans ? That was the stupidest move I have yet seen. Citizens were asked "Do you have a dangerous disease ? if so, check this box yes and we will quarantine you." Like, who in their right mind would do that ? Returning people remarked on that at the time.


    He never shut down travel ... he closed entry to foreign passports. Hint : the virus doesn't check passports. I seriously doubt a real case can be made that China intentionally wished to harm the world by loosing the virus. I do not doubt that they gave that possibility much thought nor concern either. It would be difficult to prove anyway.


    I doubt that China would do such a thing intentionally however I do not believe they are super geniuses either anymore than Tasmanian Devils posing as such either. I think it was no great skill nor brains I think it was simply depth of infection presented to those places them being verifiably as rather remote.


    I was a hell of a lot closer than you, hip. And as a shanghai and zhejiang resident, I have a little better information on what went on in Chinese cities than you.


    Semi-good. There are several outright lies in there. I'm not going to go through this date by date, item by item, already have sveral times and it didn't matter, y'all have your idees fixe and that's how it is. But if you wanted you could look back to old posts.

    Excuses and stories is fine for the kiddies but fact is, you fucked the pooch. Own it.
    You cover for many problems with your name calling. I have always believed that the virus was here the end of the previous year. That timeline is really more fair than hype and yet trustworthiness of the Chinese to me is admittedly a bias.

    Just as you are biased against the US. I can see and understand that it likely had escaped before the travel ban. You can not admit any mistakes on your side and it is telling.

    SXSW event in Texas was cancelled in 2019 due to concerns about the virus. I was surprised as at that time I did not understand the urgency of it all obviously some people did because they cancelled it.

    I think China being China made it easy to wrest control and that the virus did not spread much outside of Wuhan. You can posit that China is more competent than the United States all that you wish but at the end of the day they are two different societies.

    I know also the outbreak on the Aircraft carrier was strange and also the cruise ship. The virus even hit Vietnam.

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    [QUOTE=BillE;3720863

    Moat or no, with an estimate of just under 5% of Au citizens living overseas at any one time and several thousand returning per week, inbound quarantine and yes, for Demon and janvanruth, the use of those terribly ineffective masks when required, have things largely under control.[/QUOTE]

    for comparison: more people are crossing the dutch borders to belgium and germany by road a WEEK then australian citizens are returning to australia in a YEAR.

    if it is true what the producers of the so called vaccines claim, the so called vaccine does not protect you from getting infected only from dying of the infection, and the efficacy of the so called vaccine is 90%, what are you going to do with the couple of millions that will get infected whilst the so called vaccine does nothing for them, as soon as you open the borders?
    he who rides a tiger never can dismount


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