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  1. #8801
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    I do not even know where to get this sliced open. Why do people feel that they are better qualified to make care decisions than a person who spent years in med school and residency and is board certified? When a safe and effective preventive measure is available, it is really hard to be sympathetic to the desperation of the ones who refuse it. It is very sad that a simple decision can cause them to perish in a matter of days. I lost an uncle this year to covid, it took 2 weeks from infection to death.

    Self-determination is only justifiable if it does not hurt anyone else, when it hurts the person making decisions, you can feel sorry for them but there is no protection for the scorn. The medical establishment has been telling everyone from day one to get the vaccine, as the only safe and effective treatment. Your body is your choice, but when in trouble you will try any experimental crap? makes no sense.

    dee
    ;-D
    It appears to me that our leaders have failed at selling the vaccine on a voluntary basis.

    The medical "industry" has been rewarded handsomely by the government.

    Now...people enter into being compelled to be vaccinated with thier financial security being threatened.

    Just my personal opinion based on some things I'm seeing locally but I don't see the direction this is headed having a positive outcome.

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  3. #8802
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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    It appears to me that our leaders have failed at selling the vaccine on a voluntary basis.
    ....
    It seems to me that a substantial portion of the population has decided it's better to risk death instead of 'being owned by the libs.' Look at the demographics - I don't make the news, I only report it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Not unusual for people to assault or even murder over thier need for drugs. Some want to remove legal restrictions on many street drugs in order to reduce crime.

    Some even favor assisted suicide.

    Why can't a Doctor use any all means to follow a request for a legal medication?

    I doctors pledge is not to do what you ask, but to do no harm

    legal or illegal has little to do with doctors

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    It appears to me that our leaders have failed at selling the vaccine on a voluntary basis.

    The medical "industry" has been rewarded handsomely by the government.

    Now...people enter into being compelled to be vaccinated with thier financial security being threatened.

    Just my personal opinion based on some things I'm seeing locally but I don't see the direction this is headed having a positive outcome.
    uhh yeah, it is all about the money

    I mean we have a point of agreement that these companies should not profit excessively from the vaccines.

    but as for motivations, you are being silly

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    It seems to me that a substantial portion of the population has decided it's better to risk death instead of 'being owned by the libs.' Look at the demographics - I don't make the news, I only report it.
    Really? What do you base that on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    uhh yeah, it is all about the money

    I mean we have a point of agreement that these companies should not profit excessively from the vaccines.

    but as for motivations, you are being silly
    "motivation"....is that what you found in my post?

    As far as being silly, fine by me, sure beats being an ignorant cock-sucker like you. BTW--What field is your PHD in anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    I doctors pledge is not to do what you ask, but to do no harm

    legal or illegal has little to do with doctors
    Are you a medical doctor?

    Doctors should have the ability assess unique situation and attempt to reach the most favorable outcome for the patient.

    Maybe you disagree. Fine by me.

    EDIT: I understand your a PHD so let me edit to medical doctor in my post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    uhh yeah, it is all about the money

    I mean we have a point of agreement that these companies should not profit excessively from the vaccines.

    but as for motivations, you are being silly
    Regarding "point of agreement....should not profit excessively"...Is that a government mandate or something based on your ethical standards. Do you give back to the needy in your community?

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Are you a medical doctor?

    Doctors should have the ability assess unique situation and attempt to reach the most favorable outcome for the patient.

    Maybe you disagree. Fine by me.

    EDIT: I understand your a PHD so let me edit to medical doctor in my post.
    SOrry are YOU a medical doctor?

    Apparently not


    Hippocratic oath

    First, do no harm

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Regarding "point of agreement....should not profit excessively"...Is that a government mandate or something based on your ethical standards. Do you give back to the needy in your community?
    Huh?

    was there a point or even a sentence there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
    SOrry are YOU a medical doctor?

    Apparently not


    Hippocratic oath

    First, do no harm
    Doctor? Of course not. And you?

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    It's a mistake to blindly think doctors are far beyond the capabilities of amateurs. Although certainly a doctor will give better advice than a amateur in most situations, there are still many cases where doctors make serious errors or where an amateur will render a better opinion than that of the professional. In any case, there is almost never any harm in seeking multiple opinions, both professional and amateur.

    I can cite many examples where doctors have failed or given poor advice.

    One of the most common problems with doctors is that they invariably tend to prescribe sophisticatd commercial medicines rather than simple home remedies. For example, if you go to a doctor with athlete's foot, they will prescribe an anti-fungal ointment. However, it is more effective to soak the foot in vinegar, a cheaper, easier solution that requires no commercialized medicine. Yet another example is that if you go to a doctor with conjunctivitis, the doctor will give a commercial eye ointment, which is quite annoying if you have used them. A far simpler and easier method is just to swab the conjunctiva with 30% alcohol. Doctors will always tend to offer sophisticated, often costly or even unnecessary remedies where a simple remedy may be available.

    I remember one case in which a friend of mine had a daughter complaining of stomach pain and the doctor could not figure out what it was, so they recommended peforming an endoscopy, an expensive, invasive procedure that involves sedation. Luckily my friend consulted me before going through with the doctor's recommendation. I countermanded the doctor's recommendation and told him to wait on that. Then I gave him specific diagnostic instructions that allowed him to figure out what the problem was and solve it. When it became clear what the problem was, it was of a nature that the endoscopy would have been completely useless. This case was a good example of how it better to have an amateur who has good powers of reasoning and logic, than a doctor who is just following protocols. Sometimes, those protocols work, but othertimes they have bad outcomes or are just useless.

    Once I had a sick cat and took it to an experienced vet and the vet failed to find the problem and made an incorrect diagnosis. Eventually I figured out the correct diagnosis: pancreatitis, but by the time I figured out, it was too late to remedy the situation and the cat died. It infuriated me that I had originally given the vet all the information she needed to make a correct diagnosis but she failed to do that. Just because a person is a doctor does not mean they do their job well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    It appears to me that our leaders have failed at selling the vaccine on a voluntary basis.

    The medical "industry" has been rewarded handsomely by the government.

    Now...people enter into being compelled to be vaccinated with thier financial security being threatened.

    Just my personal opinion based on some things I'm seeing locally but I don't see the direction this is headed having a positive outcome.
    Sad truly sad that this came to such a political issue. Common sense is not up to our "leaders" or whoever they claim to be, it is up to all of us. At one point we all have to learn from these experiences. And a bit of knowledge of statistics would enlighten people that the risk of dying from covid is vastly higher than any risk of vaccine side effects. But hey, the "GOP leaders" seem to only care about winning the primaries, y'all can die in the process

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    [QUOTE=jscpm;3816820]It's a mistake to blindly think doctors are far beyond the capabilities of amateurs. Although certainly a doctor will give better advice than a amateur in most situations, there are still many cases where doctors make serious errors or where an amateur will render a better opinion than that of the professional. In any case, there is almost never any harm in seeking multiple opinions, both professional and amateur.

    I can cite many examples where doctors have failed or given poor advice.

    One of the most common problems with doctors is that they invariably tend to prescribe sophisticatd commercial medicines rather than simple home remedies. For example, if you go to a doctor with athlete's foot, they will prescribe an anti-fungal ointment. However, it is more effective to soak the foot in vinegar, a cheaper, easier solution that requires no commercialized medicine. Yet another example is that if you go to a doctor with conjunctivitis, the doctor will give a commercial eye ointment, which is quite annoying if you have used them. A far simpler and easier method is just to swab the conjunctiva with 30% alcohol. Doctors will always tend to offer sophisticated, often costly or even unnecessary remedies where a simple remedy may be available.

    I remember one case in which a friend of mine had a daughter complaining of stomach pain and the doctor could not figure out what it was, so they recommended peforming an endoscopy, an expensive, invasive procedure that involves sedation. Luckily my friend consulted me before going through with the doctor's recommendation. I countermanded the doctor's recommendation and told him to wait on that. Then I gave him specific diagnostic instructions that allowed him to figure out what the problem was and solve it. When it became clear what the problem was, it was of a nature that the endoscopy would have been completely useless. This case was a good example of how it better to have an amateur who has good powers of reasoning and logic, than a doctor who is just following protocols. Sometimes, those protocols work, but othertimes they have bad outcomes or are just useless.

    Once I had a sick cat and took it to an experienced vet and the vet failed to find the problem and made an incorrect diagnosis. Eventually I figured out the correct diagnosis: pancreatitis, but by the time I figured out, it was too late to remedy the situation and the cat died. It infuriated me that I had originally given the vet all the information she needed to make a correct diagnosis but she failed to do that. Just because a person is a doctor does not mean they do their job well.[/QUOTE]


    So, instead of asking doctors (say, about Covid, the topic of this thread) we should take your advice, given your powers of reasoning and logic? We know this because:

    1) Rather than buy a tube of anti-fungal ointment, it is far easier and more effective to soak your foot in a gallon of vinegar.

    2) For conjunctivitus, swab your eyes in a 30% solution of alcohol.

    3) You countermanded a doctor's recommendation . . . and your friend's daughter didn't die.

    4) You had a cat, but it died.

    I'd agree that we should actively participate in our own health care -- and make fully informed decisions. Also agree that doctors are far from infallible. That's what second opinions are for. But, whether Twitter Tweeters and Practical Machinists advising us to reject medical opinion count as "fully informed" -- seems opinions vary.

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  17. #8815
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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    They died again? Big B used those same two back at post #8595. "It looks like a couple of people may have died of ivermectin poisoning in New Mexico. Investigation is ongoing."

    Of course that means an extra 4 deaths due to covid for the stats.....
    Or if you are a trump cult member you think you have 4 million deaths. Counting doesn't seem to be the strong point for most trump cult members.

    In a related trump cult counting story, I saw that the results of the re-recount in Maricopa county Arizona showed that trump actually lost by a wider margin that was first reported. Nice work trump. Setting record after record.

  18. #8816
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Sad truly sad that this came to such a political issue. Common sense is not up to our "leaders" or whoever they claim to be, it is up to all of us. At one point we all have to learn from these experiences. And a bit of knowledge of statistics would enlighten people that the risk of dying from covid is vastly higher than any risk of vaccine side effects. But hey, the "GOP leaders" seem to only care about winning the primaries, y'all can die in the process
    Yeah, as you post..."truly sad that this came to such a political issue"....then you make it political with the last sentence laying it off on the GOP...

    Man...how fucked up you are.

  19. #8817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Or if you are a trump cult member you think you have 4 million deaths. Counting doesn't seem to be the strong point for most trump cult members.

    In a related trump cult counting story, I saw that the results of the re-recount in Maricopa county Arizona showed that trump actually lost by a wider margin that was first reported. Nice work trump. Setting record after record.
    Well Big B, no matter what, Joe Biden became President the moment he took the oath. I don't vote in Arizona so thier problems mean little to me.

    But in your case you are unable to remove Trump from your life, which is good.

  20. #8818
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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Yeah, as you post..."truly sad that this came to such a political issue"....then you make it political with the last sentence laying it off on the GOP...
    Since they were the ones who overwhelmingly did that in the first place, it seems fair. Chickens coming home to roost and all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Mannie...Yeah, forgot your basically wired for the way the CCP handles information that is viewed by the public.
    As far as I know, the alien lizard overlords and the pizza parlor pederasts haven't targeted China yet. And no demon sperm problems either. Seems to be strictly a US thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Excellent! So why do you seek to have others reinforce your decision to wear a mask? Or seem to demand others do the same?
    It's mathematics/statistics, has nothing to do with "freedumbs" or "protecting yourself/others."

    On an individual level, masks make an insignificant difference. But on a massive level, reducing the spread of infection by even ten or fifteen percent means a whole hell of a lot of people don't get sick, don't go to the hospital, don't die, don't spread the disease even farther and faster. Drop the control rods in the reactor an inch, it helps.

    But it appears that a large number of people are not willing to do even the smallest thing to make this epidemic go away. Zo ... society gets what it allows. It may be the end of the century before this fucking thing is over.

    Good work, dimbulbs. Did someone say humans are at the top of the evolutionary pyramid ?

    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Why can't a Doctor use any all means to follow a request for a legal medication?
    Doctors can do whatever they want ... as long as they are willing to risk malpractice suits. And from what I've read, the friction does not come from doctors who cannot get ivermectin, it comes from doctors with too many ethics to prescribe that stupid shit.

    'course, the good side of that is, if you die of ivermectin poisoning at least you won't have worms. Maybe a cocktail, with bleach and a grolux lamp up the ass. Then your undies could be whiter than white and sprout tomatoes, too.

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  22. #8819
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    [QUOTE=EmanuelGoldstein;3816839]Since they were the ones who overwhelmingly did that in the first place, it seems fair. Chickens coming home to roost and all that.

    As far as I know, the alien lizard overlords and the pizza parlor pederasts haven't targeted China yet. And no demon sperm problems either. Seems to be strictly a US thing.


    It's mathematics/statistics, has nothing to do with "freedumbs" or "protecting yourself/others."

    On an individual level, masks make an insignificant difference. But on a massive level, reducing the spread of infection by even ten or fifteen percent means a whole hell of a lot of people don't get sick, don't go to the hospital, don't die, don't spread the disease even farther and faster. Drop the control rods in the reactor an inch, it helps.

    But it appears that a large number of people are not willing to do even the smallest thing to make this epidemic go away. Zo ... society gets what it allows. It may be the end of the century before this fucking thing is over.

    Good work, dimbulbs. Did someone say humans are at the top of the evolutionary pyramid ?


    Doctors can do whatever they want ... as lng as they are willing to risk malpracice suits. And from what I've read, the friction does not come from doctors who cannot get ivermectin, it comes from doctors with too many ethics to prescribe that stupid shit.

    'course, the good side of that is, if you die at least you won't have worms.
    Kind of funny when this all...allegedly...started with your people eating live bats and ended up killing millions all over the world.

    Pretty fucked up.

  23. #8820
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    Quote Originally Posted by standardparts View Post
    Doctor? Of course not. And you?
    then what is your point?


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