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  1. #361
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    Today Show Canoe - YouTube You can't even trust the weather, it is all fake news.

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  3. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Saw Trump say today that sales of military supplies will continue because with the situation of the reporter that if we did not sell war goods then someone else would.

    this makes sense to me.
    Perhaps...but it’s a different story when you start wars to pump up your industry.
    I suggest you revisit General Eisenhower’s position in theMilitary Industrial Complex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I thought you didn't believe what you heard on the media?

    IOW you don't believe unless it fits what you want to believe.
    Lol. I don't think there's any question that she said it. Unless you think it was a republican impostor, pretending to be Hillary on the CNN interview?

    I also believe Eric Holder just called for dems to kick republicans "when they go low". Meaning whenever a republican wants to advance a conservative agenda, I guess. It's always undefined rhetoric with the left. "Kicking them" is pretty clear- "going low" can mean anything you want it to mean.

    The part I don't believe wrt Hillary is the part about returning to civility if they win. That implies they were acting with civility before they lost.

    There's a difference between obstructing an agenda- which all opposition parties do- and inciting political violence, which is what democrat leaders are doing right now.

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  6. #364
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    You know a lot has been said about Trump and Kim of North Korea being in love. It is a relative thing used to stoop low to degrade the President. Today Kanye’s west said he loved the president!

    I think the case case here is people do throw down to attack the president this supposed love thing which to me is offensive because it is a focused attack making fun of the president in a improper way. He is after all not in romantic love with these guys. Everyone knows it yet critics stoop to the gutter and demean themselves when they do this.

  7. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Perhaps...but it’s a different story when you start wars to pump up your industry.
    I suggest you revisit General Eisenhower’s position in theMilitary Industrial Complex.
    It is not all that you say. No one wants Saudi to go under. They will address this situation.

  8. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Perhaps...but it’s a different story when you start wars to pump up your industry.
    I suggest you revisit General Eisenhower’s position in theMilitary Industrial Complex.
    One more thing we did not start the war in Yemen and neither did the Saudi.

  9. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    That'd be a good excuse for just about every crime imaginable.

    Sarcasm: What the world needs is more weapons. Then we can all feel safe. Jeez.
    I do not see your view as reasonable. I do not hold it against you as I have been schooling in the way of people in Denmark. Seems in your own way you are just as ingrained as many Americans. A compliment!

  10. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    It is not all that you say. No one wants Saudi to go under. They will address this situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    One more thing we did not start the war in Yemen and neither did the Saudi.
    Which has zero to do with our continuation of it or our refusal to try to dial it back.
    And it’s not just there, it’s a global tendency to use the military not soft power.
    Because diplomacy doesn’t line the pockets of the arms industry.
    There’s nothing wrong with having a good military and the industry to support it.
    But breaking windows and letting others’ do the same because you own a glass shop is something else entirely.
    It’s like giving rocks to the delequents because you sell windows.

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    Murdering an opposition journalist in a foreign consulate is completely unacceptable- that's what appears to have happened. We should freeze delivery of weapons until the facts are known, and the whereabouts of the journalist is determined. If it is what it appears to be, there needs to be consequences.

    If we can sanction Russia for that, we can't turn a blind eye when the Saudis do it.

    I do find Gordon's comment ironic considering all the hand-wringing about Trump and NATO. All of NATO Europe combined can't muster up one armored brigade to defend their eastern flank, so it's our responsibility. Presumably those weapons are okay. When we even hint of closing a European military base, look out. They start demanding payments for the communities that would be economically impacted by the loss of jobs.

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  13. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Murdering an opposition journalist in a foreign consulate is completely unacceptable- that's what appears to have happened. We should freeze delivery of weapons until the facts are known, and the whereabouts of the journalist is determined. If it is what it appears to be, there needs to be consequences.

    If we can sanction Russia for that, we can't turn a blind eye when the Saudis do it.

    I do find Gordon's comment ironic considering all the hand-wringing about Trump and NATO. All of NATO Europe combined can't muster up one armored brigade to defend their eastern flank, so it's our responsibility. Presumably those weapons are okay. When we even hint of closing a European military base, look out. They start demanding payments for the communities that would be economically impacted by the loss of jobs.
    Trump just told the world we would keep our noses out of their business.
    Why do you think the Saudis felt ok doing this, and China with the Uhigers.
    And the russians with THEIR murder of dissidents and journalists for decades.
    Come on, he just signaled fair game for “friendly” regimes to do what they wanted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Which has zero to do with our continuation of it or our refusal to try to dial it back.
    And it’s not just there, it’s a global tendency to use the military not soft power.
    Because diplomacy doesn’t line the pockets of the arms industry.
    There’s nothing wrong with having a good military and the industry to support it.
    But breaking windows and letting others’ do the same because you own a glass shop is something else entirely.
    It’s like giving rocks to the delequents because you sell windows.
    I disagree Saudi did not start the war in Yemen the houfis did with the former military dictator. Iran is deeply involved since the beginning of the war. These degenerates have also attacked Saudi too leading to the war now.

    Survival of a country is important. I am sure this situation with the reporter will be resolved yet it is not enough to stop this war. To Saudi it is as important as any war we fought save the world wars which were more important.

    I can care less anyone in Denmark or wherever who do not like that WW2 turned out as it did. Denmark is notably a place where racism is very prevalent today I believe from Gordon’s posts concerning the influx of immigrants.

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    You are aware of the nationality of the guys that flew passenger jets into the World Trade Towers, aren't you?

  16. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    I disagree Saudi did not start the war in Yemen the houfis did with the former military dictator. Iran is deeply involved since the beginning of the war. These degenerates have also attacked Saudi too leading to the war now.

    Survival of a country is important. I am sure this situation with the reporter will be resolved yet it is not enough to stop this war. To Saudi it is as important as any war we fought save the world wars which were more important.

    I can care less anyone in Denmark or wherever who do not like that WW2 turned out as it did. Denmark is notably a place where racism is very prevalent today I believe from Gordon’s posts concerning the influx of immigrants.
    Which still has zero to do with the way we refuse to do anything but pour gas on that particular fire.
    It never needed to be a war, diplomacy would have done wonders, but there’s no money to be made from peace.

  17. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Which still has zero to do with the way we refuse to do anything but pour gas on that particular fire.
    It never needed to be a war, diplomacy would have done wonders, but there’s no money to be made from peace.
    By supporting an ally? No. All this time supporting Saudi will not change.

    This unfortunately will happen even if the worst happened to that reporter. It is notable the increased hostility between government and the press. I hate to see this however the credibility of the press has been going down for years. They make enemies easily it seems to my observation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    By supporting an ally? No. All this time supporting Saudi will not change.

    This unfortunately will happen even if the worst happened to that reporter. It is notable the increased hostility between government and the press. I hate to see this however the credibility of the press has been going down for years. They make enemies easily it seems to my observation.
    An ally who supports way as opposed to fostering peace.
    Again, your position is that unnecessary conflict is good.
    You need to go listen to what General Eisenhower had to say about war.

  19. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    By supporting an ally? No. All this time supporting Saudi will not change.

    This unfortunately will happen even if the worst happened to that reporter. It is notable the increased hostility between government and the press. I hate to see this however the credibility of the press has been going down for years. They make enemies easily it seems to my observation.
    The press does not make enemies, it exposes truth.
    If an entity is an enemy of the truth THEY are the enemy.

    If the press is not “making enemies” of powerful liars it’s not the press...
    It’s Pravda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    The press does not make enemies, it exposes truth.
    If an entity is an enemy of the truth THEY are the enemy.

    If the press is not “making enemies” of powerful liars it’s not the press...
    It’s Pravda.
    Ok you believe in the ideal ethics of journalism. Even I can see the motives behind CNN and Fox News. You yourself have mentioned Fox as biased.

    Cable news is the large offender. Your point about corporate interests may even be involved.

    If we were to use the ideal of truth Miguels there would be few people that we could vote for in any party.

  21. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Ok you believe in the ideal ethics of journalism. Even I can see the motives behind CNN and Fox News. You yourself have mentioned Fox as biased.

    Cable news is the large offender. Your point about corporate interests may even be involved.

    If we were to use the ideal of truth Miguels there would be few people that we could vote for in any party.
    CNN and Fox are not journalists.
    Although CNN tends to have more actual truth than Fox which was created as an overtly political infotainment outlet.

    That does not matter.
    The point is that “making enemies” is not something the press should be concerned about.
    And your blind acceptance of a journalist being killed by an ally as being an acceptable consequence is a sign of one of the greatest threats to democracy and freedom.
    You have essentially just approved the border of hundreds of journalists world wide...because they should have known better than to “make enemies”.
    The press is protected in our constitution for very good reason.
    You have just completely shitcanned one of the single greatest creations of the founding of the nation.
    The right to speak truth to power.

    And you did it because of American aerospace industry lobbying on behalf of an ally who has essentially zero respect for any thing the United States pretends to stand for.
    Because you like way and the money it brings?

  22. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    CNN and Fox are not journalists.
    Although CNN tends to have more actual truth than Fox which was created as an overtly political infotainment outlet.

    That does not matter.
    The point is that “making enemies” is not something the press should be concerned about.
    And your blind acceptance of a journalist being killed by an ally as being an acceptable consequence is a sign of one of the greatest threats to democracy and freedom.
    You have essentially just approved the border of hundreds of journalists world wide...because they should have known better than to “make enemies”.
    The press is protected in our constitution for very good reason.
    You have just completely shitcanned one of the single greatest creations of the founding of the nation.
    The right to speak truth to power.

    And you did it because of American aerospace industry lobbying on behalf of an ally who has essentially zero respect for any thing the United States pretends to stand for.
    Because you like way and the money it brings?
    No I do agree anyone killing a good journalist is wrong. Same goes for a bad journalist. I do not reject freedom of the press.

    Saudis are a very closed society and the journalist knew he was at odds with the Crown Prince. Saudi Arabia does not live by our constitution and neither does Myrimar.

    We deal with all kinds of countries who are less than friendly. According to the view that we cut ties with anyone who did us wrong or do not abide by our type of laws then we could not get along very well. The reporter was not a citizen of the United States.

    In Sauidi they can cut the hand off if someone steals.

    Are you suggesting we just not sell them arms arms? I think they have a right to defend their country and it is better than defending them ourselves. The arms sales will still be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    No I do agree anyone killing a good journalist is wrong. Same goes for a bad journalist. I do not reject freedom of the press.

    Saudis are a very closed society and the journalist knew he was at odds with the Crown Prince. Saudi Arabia does not live by our constitution and neither does Myrimar.

    We deal with all kinds of countries who are less than friendly. According to the view that we cut ties with anyone who did us wrong or do not abide by our type of laws then we could not get along very well. The reporter was not a citizen of the United States.

    In Sauidi they can cut the hand off if someone steals.

    Are you suggesting we just not sell them arms arms? I think they have a right to defend their country and it is better than defending them ourselves. The arms sales will still be done.
    I’m suggesting that justifying selling them arms when they are involved in a war and have kidnapped a us legal resident...because trump says we need the jobs.
    I’m suggesting you have already decided that journalists don’t matter by blaming him for the actions of a sociopath that didn’t like what he was saying.
    I’m saying that it’s a small step from your saying that to your accepting the jailing of journalists as trump has suggested.


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