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  1. #381
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    What makes people here say the Saudi should remain as one country? It is a little over 100 years old as a country ruled absolutely by one family. I see no reason it should not be split into several smaller countries. no historical reason not to do it.
    This is the same as most African countries and many middle eastern ones. They were divided into colonies because Europeans wanted each colony to have some sea coast and to extend into the interior. Why should Iraq remain as one country while the Kurds do not have one? Because Queen Victoria thought so. Do you think she spoke any Eastern Languages or any African ones for that matter? For that matter the czars of Russia spoke English and German at home and with friends and a little Russian in public, if they were good with languages. I wonder why they were out of touch with the Russian people who only spoke one language
    Bill D

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    I’m suggesting that justifying selling them arms when they are involved in a war and have kidnapped a us legal resident...because trump says we need the jobs.
    I’m suggesting you have already decided that journalists don’t matter by blaming him for the actions of a sociopath that didn’t like what he was saying.
    I’m saying that it’s a small step from your saying that to your accepting the jailing of journalists as trump has suggested.
    No I do not think it was right what many think was done. He was brave. If the Crown Prince ordered this done would make him a murderer and maybe a psychopath.

    Trump is a idiot a lot. If one believed everything that he says then that person may be very confused. I get that. Thankfully we have a constitution. Yes I believe in freedom of the press. Yes it should matter that he is a resident of the United States.

    Who knows? I suppose they may even claim he was a spy. I kind of doubt the Prince would admit to anything really.

    I am sure many would agree with me when I say that I am glad I am not a journalist. Mexico in fact is way up there in reporters murdered.

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    No I do not think it was right what many think was done. He was brave. If the Crown Prince ordered this done would make him a murderer and maybe a psychopath.

    Trump is a idiot a lot. If one believed everything that he says then that person may be very confused. I get that. Thankfully we have a constitution. Yes I believe in freedom of the press. Yes it should matter that he is a resident of the United States.

    Who knows? I suppose they may even claim he was a spy. I kind of doubt the Prince would admit to anything really.

    I am sure many would agree with me when I say that I am glad I am not a journalist. Mexico in fact is way up there in reporters murdered.
    And yet you suggest it’s his own fault for making the wrong enemy.
    By being so cavilear about it you make the targeted killing of these heroes of democracy ok.
    Further you cheapen it by tying that position to saving us defense industry jobs.

  4. #384
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    Maybe 20-30 years ago, I had a consulting gig with a defense company in Waco, Texas. Back then they modified 747's to add things like radomes for the US Air Force. The real profits were doing things like putting solid gold toilets (the princes all already had solid gold sinks) on 747's for an assortment of Saudi princes. 747 after 747 retrofitted as flying pleasure domes, right along with the defense work. The sheer ostentation -- my solid gold flying toilet beats your solid silver Audi A8 -- was mind boggling.

    It struck me, way back then, that this wasn't much of an everyone-puts-their-pants-on-the-same American ethic. The Saudi's have never really been our friends (who funded 9-11?) and they pretty much don't share our values whether it's respect for women or respect for hard work and innovation leading to success.

    In my mind, there's not much good that comes from cozying up to despots and dictators, hoping they'll give us oil a few bucks a barrel cheaper. Especially since we were already paying near the cost of every barrel of oil running aircraft carriers into the Gulf region to protect said oil for decades now.

    Instead of, say, becoming energy independent (an option that was there for the taking back in the 70's) we've played one side then the other throughout the Middle East. We've lost many thousands of lives, maimed close to a million of our veterans either physically or psychologically, killed hundreds of thousands more abroad, pissed away trillions of dollars better used at home, and trashed what used to be our good name.

    And in that time we've managed to think that the dog-eat-dog world of the Apprentice is how business should be done, that truth is optional, and, hey, let's trash trade with our allies in the free world -- but heaven forbid we stop selling arms to the Saudis.

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  6. #385
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    I read MSNBC,CNN and Fox News all three. I take them for what they are worth. I believe I have enough common sense to pick out the truth from the bullshit.

    That deal with Kanye West was all bullshit. donnie is using him and he ain't smart enough to know it.All a photo opp just so he can say " see, I'm a not racist, I like Kayne." All you need to do is look at who he married to know he is not quite all there.

    Now back the tariffs. Ford is showing you some of the effects of this tit for tat game donnie is playing. The truth of the matter is he does not have the skill set to be in this game. He is used to playing with people that have less money than he has. Quite a different game when the playing field starts to equal out.

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  8. #386
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    Aren't these things handled to look like a random assault?
    Disappearing a guy at the consulate?

    Don't these guys go to espionage school?

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  10. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygoat View Post
    I read MSNBC,CNN and Fox News all three. I take them for what they are worth. I believe I have enough common sense to pick out the truth from the bullshit.
    I don't know if any other Danish member will disagree with me but even although our various media have their political "leanings" I don't think one of them would print or send something that was a downright lie or blindly in favour of anyone or anything.

    One reason I can think for that could be that with the large number of political parties we have it'd be sales/viewer quantity suicide to have a single favourite.

    The Local - Denmark's News in English

    Denmark - latest news, breaking stories and comment - The Independent

    Denmark Latest News, Top Stories - All news & analysis about Denmark

    Boring or peaceful? Depends on who you are I suppose.

  11. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Murdering an opposition journalist in a foreign consulate is completely unacceptable- that's what appears to have happened. We should freeze delivery of weapons until the facts are known, and the whereabouts of the journalist is determined. If it is what it appears to be, there needs to be consequences.

    If we can sanction Russia for that, we can't turn a blind eye when the Saudis do it.

    I do find Gordon's comment ironic considering all the hand-wringing about Trump and NATO. All of NATO Europe combined can't muster up one armored brigade to defend their eastern flank, so it's our responsibility. Presumably those weapons are okay. When we even hint of closing a European military base, look out. They start demanding payments for the communities that would be economically impacted by the loss of jobs.
    Yes good points from you and also Miguels. I thought given Trump saying the Saudi would buy weapons elsewhere was a valid point and it still makes basic sense. Now considering our actions before it may be the Senate my pressure Trump. I am sure they do not like that and feel they have no choice but to do something about the sale of arms.

    I like the idea the Saudis can defend themselves. As far as arms sales are concerned the US always is under scrutiny and because we can be called on it and actually listen. Russia does not listen much to the concerns. We can not pull back and allow Russia to destabilize the whole world because we stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    And yet you suggest it’s his own fault for making the wrong enemy.
    By being so cavilear about it you make the targeted killing of these heroes of democracy ok.
    Further you cheapen it by tying that position to saving us defense industry jobs.

    I say this only because myself I have at several times in my life stepped into dangerous situations to help strangers and friends. Now my wife does not want me killed and I have children too. So it falls to me to be careful in my life not placing myself in danger.This includes danger in jobs also. If I were in the position of a journalist being under death threats I would change jobs very likely or get very careful how I live.

    not the man’s fault for doing the job. He chose to continue under great threat. That was his personal descision. He believed he would be safe.

  13. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Aren't these things handled to look like a random assault?
    Disappearing a guy at the consulate?

    Don't these guys go to espionage school?
    Our Fearless Leader and hi son in law have given them a liscense to kill.

  14. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Yes good points from you and also Miguels. I thought given Trump saying the Saudi would buy weapons elsewhere was a valid point and it still makes basic sense. Now considering our actions before it may be the Senate my pressure Trump. I am sure they do not like that and feel they have no choice but to do something about the sale of arms.

    I like the idea the Saudis can defend themselves. As far as arms sales are concerned the US always is under scrutiny and because we can be called on it and actually listen. Russia does not listen much to the concerns. We can not pull back and allow Russia to destabilize the whole world because we stop.
    The Saudis have plenty of weapons to defend against any reasonable threat.
    Yemen is an inventory reduction. Bombs have expiration dates.

    They spend 10% of their GDP on the military.
    They spend more than Russia.
    On.y the USA and China spend more.
    That arrangement is a direct kick back to the defense industry.

    Last I checked we are also sending them tax dollars so they can buy our weapons...it’s called military aid.

    Here’s an idea what is really on trumps mind instead of human rights and the kidnapping and murder of journalists.
    Saudi Arabia–United States relations - Wikipedia

    They May have bought their weapons elsewhere...but that’s a lot of money they dont really need to be spending. Buying our weapons it them supporting our industry as payback for having to buy oil from them.
    It’s not a security issue, it’s a trade deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    They May have bought their weapons elsewhere...but that’s a lot of money they dont really need to be spending. Buying our weapons it them supporting our industry as payback for having to buy oil from them.
    It’s not a security issue, it’s a trade deal.
    The Saudis spend 25% of their income on military. They are third after the USA and China.

    Not bad (sarcasm) for a country with a population of less than 35 million.

    The 15 countries with the highest military budgets in 2017
    1. United States.
    2. China
    3. Saudi Arabia
    4. Russia
    5. India
    6. France
    7. United Kingdom
    8. Japan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    The Saudis spend 25% of their income on military. They are third after the USA and China.

    Not bad (sarcasm) for a country with a population of less than 35 million.

    The 15 countries with the highest military budgets in 2017
    1. United States.
    2. China
    3. Saudi Arabia
    4. Russia
    5. India
    6. France
    7. United Kingdom
    8. Japan
    That’s what I said before you cut of the top of my comment.
    Are you just talking to hear your head rattle?

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  18. #394
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    Remember this also.
    Trump has called the press the enemy of the people and condoned the actions of Duarte regarding his press.
    He’s also resisted pushing back against Russia’s wet work.

    Yeah, he gave a go ahead to the killing of this guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    And yet you suggest it’s his own fault for making the wrong enemy.
    By being so cavilear about it you make the targeted killing of these heroes of democracy ok.
    Further you cheapen it by tying that position to saving us defense industry jobs.

    I think you could reach reach that conclusion if you completely disregard everything I have mentioned about the situation. Defense equipment does not in the area of concern for me sure. One could even say the US and other countries should stop all business with Saudi I do not think that is needed.

    You seem to suggest you are clear on what should be done. I know you from your points which you make and it does not surprise me you feel at the very least the arms sales should be stopped.

    I would like to read what things should be done now. I think as far as what you have mentioned your course of action you would wish to see would make sense. There is still the evidence we do not know. We may never know maybe.

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    Default Arms spending chart

    One chart I can post about spending on the military of top spending countries. The only reason I post it is because someone claimed Saudi spent 25% of “their income” on the military.

    Saudi has a lot of catching up to do as they historically have not spent much.

    • Military expenditure as percentage of GDP in highest spending countries 217 | Statistic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Remember this also.
    Trump has called the press the enemy of the people and condoned the actions of Duarte regarding his press.
    He’s also resisted pushing back against Russia’s wet work.

    Yeah, he gave a go ahead to the killing of this guy.
    He is bloviating. He serves because he won our votes. Yeah he does seem very comfortable around strong dictators. I think he still understands the difference though. Making the comment about the press should have been more specific.

    I do do not agree with your point where you say Trump gave the go ahead to kill the reporter. If a journalist printed that I will not hesitate to say the reporter and the newspaper are not being a friend of the American people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    That’s what I said before you cut of the top of my comment.
    Are you just talking to hear your head rattle?
    What you wrote was 10%. The 25% I wrote is a good bit more. That stupid remark was unlike you but maybe Spinit's butt kissing is something you appreciate?

    There's no way Saudi Arabia can use the armaments for themselves they buy so who are they "helping"? Has it already got forgotten which country Bin Laden came from?

    Who are the allies and enemies of Saudi Arabia? - Quora

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    One chart I can post about spending on the military of top spending countries. The only reason I post it is because someone claimed Saudi spent 25% of “their income” on the military.

    Saudi has a lot of catching up to do as they historically have not spent much.

    • Military expenditure as percentage of GDP in highest spending countries 217 | Statistic
    Get Miguel to explain the difference in GDP % and what I wrote. Not that it really matters. Seems friends can be bought.

    List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia

  24. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    I think you could reach reach that conclusion if you completely disregard everything I have mentioned about the situation. Defense equipment does not in the area of concern for me sure. One could even say the US and other countries should stop all business with Saudi I do not think that is needed.

    You seem to suggest you are clear on what should be done. I know you from your points which you make and it does not surprise me you feel at the very least the arms sales should be stopped.

    I would like to read what things should be done now. I think as far as what you have mentioned your course of action you would wish to see would make sense. There is still the evidence we do not know. We may never know maybe.
    I’m hardly clear on what to do.
    But I know blaming the victim and talking up the arms sales without understanding the economics of the trade policy is questionable.
    What’s more, it seems pretty clear that trumps attitude towards the press isn’t helping protect them...and his out right willing ness to trade an arms deal for this guys life.


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