25% Tarifs effective March 26/2018 - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    The overwhelmingly negative views towards the US manufacturing economy regarding the recent tariffs has gone far too excessive.

    One of our most important business sectors (Automobile Production) is accelerating. Demand for US Made SUVs and light Trucks has never been higher.

    Die/Mold shops in Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Illinois are doing quite well.

    According to a recent Goldman Sax analyst call; BUY GM and FORD. These two equities appear to be waking up from a 50 year nap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    The overwhelmingly negative views towards the US manufacturing economy regarding the recent tariffs has gone far too excessive.

    One of our most important business sectors (Automobile Production) is accelerating. Demand for US Made SUVs and light Trucks has never been higher.

    Die/Mold shops in Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Illinois are doing quite well.

    According to a recent Goldman Sax analyst call; BUY GM and FORD. These two equities appear to be waking up from a 50 year nap.
    I'm afraid that your post is exactly what I'm talking about.

    Your *domestic* demand might be going up. How's the export biz looking? You know, the thing you do so you can pay for imports.

    The 3 really big population centres outside the USA are the EU, China & India. OK not a lot is happening in India, they're still sorting themselves out WRT investment & infrastructure.

    Your vehicle exports to the other big population centres where there's a shit-ton of money available to buy stuff is........ fuck-all.

    So as I said, you're focused fat & happy on the domestic USA market and taking no notice of other places. Which would be fine if you didn't have a major jones for Chinese consumer goods *your own* manufacturers offshored so they could get a higher profit margin and avoid all the pesky domestic laws that slowed them down from getting even richer (at, it seems, the average US worker's expense).

    OBTW - Goldman Sachs recommended something and you quote *THAT* as some sort of definitive source? Really? Come on. Probably means they think the stocks are going to tank and want to get out from under at everyone else's expense. Have you forgotten 2008 so quickly?

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post

    Your vehicle exports to the other big population centres where there's a shit-ton of money available to buy stuff is........ fuck-all.


    PDW
    The most profitable vehicles produced by the Big 3 are SUVs and Trucks, these are large vehicles usually, and they aren't the most fuel efficient on the road either. These vehicles are produced primarily for the domestic market, and with a price tag starting in the mid 50K demand is still very brisk.

    These 3 manufacturers are "printing money" off of these products.

    How's are exports doing? Ask the people at Boeing Aircraft.

    This is an American Phenomenon, we consume and produce in mass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    The most profitable vehicles produced by the Big 3 are SUVs and Trucks, these are large vehicles usually, and they aren't the most fuel efficient on the road either. These vehicles are produced primarily for the domestic market, and with a price tag starting in the mid 50K demand is still very brisk.

    These 3 manufacturers are "printing money" off of these products.

    How's are exports doing? Ask the people at Boeing Aircraft.

    This is an American Phenomenon, we consume and produce in mass.
    How's exports *of SUVs and trucks* doing? We weren't discussing aircraft; you were the one who brought up the subject of vehicles not me. You're trying to change the topic because you know the answer. As I said, exports of those are fuck-all.

    I actually don't give a rat's arse about you putting tariffs on Chinese goods. As we've already heard from board members here, they're going to use them to raise their own prices and gouge the consumers even further, rather than innovate, compete & undercut the Chinese. That's the exact behaviour I'd have predicted, and why?

    Because it's exactly what happened in Australia when we had high tariffs on imports. You have a much bigger domestic market, maybe you can keep the scam going for longer, but it's still going to cost you.

    PDW

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  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    How's exports *of SUVs and trucks* doing? We weren't discussing aircraft; you were the one who brought up the subject of vehicles not me. You're trying to change the topic because you know the answer. As I said, exports of those are fuck-all.


    PDW
    As I stated in my last post, The Big 3 auto makers do not rely on the export of theses vehicles ((SUVs and Trucks). These products are too large and too expensive for most countries roadways and their budgets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    The overwhelmingly negative views towards the US manufacturing economy regarding the recent tariffs has gone far too excessive.

    One of our most important business sectors (Automobile Production) is accelerating. Demand for US Made SUVs and light Trucks has never been higher.

    Die/Mold shops in Ohio, Michigan, Indiana and Illinois are doing quite well.

    According to a recent Goldman Sax analyst call; BUY GM and FORD. These two equities appear to be waking up from a 50 year nap.
    Did you even look at the list of 2500 products? Steel, aluminum, drug ingredients, electronic components, machinery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerritv View Post
    Did you even look at the list of 2500 products? Steel, aluminum, drug ingredients, electronic components, machinery.
    Yes, I did skim through the list, and for the most part, I seldom make large purchases originating from China. As a matter of fact, flat screen TVs and computers are the only products that I have purchased from China.

    I personally believe that the actions that the President is taking are good.

    The Chinese are finally being called out for their intellectual piracy practices and their dirty habit of selling counterfeit American products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    As I stated in my last post, The Big 3 auto makers do not rely on the export of theses vehicles ((SUVs and Trucks). These products are too large and too expensive for most countries roadways and their budgets.
    Gee.
    Do you think the fact we don’t make things people want might have something to do with why our exports suck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    How's exports *of SUVs and trucks* doing?
    Not so good to Australia.

    Why does a F450 cost $200K+ in Oz? Same truck in the US is $60K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Gee.
    Do you think the fact we don’t make things people want might have something to do with why our exports suck.
    The Big 3 auto makers decision to build large SUVs and Trucks is strictly a business decision, and I may add that this business model is working beautifully. They obviously are not bothered that these products are not broadly excepted in other countries, their main concern is to produce what sells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Not so good to Australia.

    Why does a F450 cost $200K+ in Oz? Same truck in the US is $60K.
    Why cars cost more here than in the US - Car News | CarsGuide

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    The Big 3 auto makers decision to build large SUVs and Trucks is strictly a business decision, and I may add that this business model is working beautifully. They obviously are not bothered that these products are not broadly excepted in other countries, their main concern is to produce what sells.
    So...our that debt deficit is the result of USA business decisions.

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    Exactly.

    When we tariff something, we are trying to start a trade war. When they tariff our products, it's fine and dandy.

    I used Oz as an example, but it's across the board. The EU tariffs our cars 4X what we charge on theirs.

    That's not "free trade".

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Exactly.

    When we tariff something, we are trying to start a trade war. When they tariff our products, it's fine and dandy.

    I used Oz as an example, but it's across the board. The EU tariffs our cars 4X what we charge on theirs.

    That's not "free trade".
    It could be completely unfair and anti competitive

    Or not

    IT depends

    What is the entire trade situation betweenthe countries?

    what was negotiated between the countries to bring the situation to where it is?

    If both countries are signatories to the WTO, what do they say

    Odds are good that there is some offset somewhere[like your agri products are not taxed]

    OR maybe not

    Maybe you are getting screwed

    So change policy via tweet without any negotiation

    yeah that seems right

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Exactly.

    When we tariff something, we are trying to start a trade war. When they tariff our products, it's fine and dandy.

    I used Oz as an example, but it's across the board. The EU tariffs our cars 4X what we charge on theirs.

    That's not "free trade".
    Tricky quiz:
    Whats the difference between tariffs and taxes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Exactly.

    When we tariff something, we are trying to start a trade war. When they tariff our products, it's fine and dandy.

    I used Oz as an example, but it's across the board. The EU tariffs our cars 4X what we charge on theirs.

    That's not "free trade".
    Well said jancollc,
    That is the state of Trade currently, but what is more telling, is the fact that the Big 3 are still doing quite well despite the fact that their products are heavily tariffed overseas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Tricky quiz:
    Whats the difference between tariffs and taxes?
    A tariff is a tax levied on imports.

    I've read the Korean FTA. It's one page of flowery language about breaking down barriers, etc.

    Followed by several hundred pages of tariff and quota schedules, exemptions for favored companies and products, etc.

    We are restricted to 5000 cars per year, they can export unlimited cars to the US. And if you are in Korea and you do buy a US made auto, you will be rewarded with an income tax audit.

    Kind of a dis-incentive, wouldn't you say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Well said jancollc,
    That is the state of Trade currently, but what is more telling, is the fact that the Big 3 are still doing quite well despite the fact that their products are heavily tariffed overseas.
    I don't care if they tariff our goods, I just think we have every right to reciprocate in kind. There's a double standard at work here, and that's my real complaint.

    I don't like the tariffs on raw materials, but I have no problem with matching tariffs on finished goods. I admit that is partly due to the personal impact- if I owned a steel mill I would be thrilled. Since steel is an input for me, the tariffs on raw metals hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    A tariff is a tax levied on imports.

    I've read the Korean FTA. It's one page of flowery language about breaking down barriers, etc.

    Followed by several hundred pages of tariff and quota schedules, exemptions for favored companies and products, etc.

    We are restricted to 5000 cars per year, they can export unlimited cars to the US. And if you are in Korea and you do buy a US made auto, you will be rewarded with an income tax audit.

    Kind of a dis-incentive, wouldn't you say?
    Yes, but cars in europe or oz are expensive because they are heavily taxed no matter if they are domestics or imports. Tariffs make only tiny part of the price difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiJ View Post
    Yes, but cars in europe or oz are expensive because they are heavily taxed no matter if they are domestics or imports. Tariffs make only tiny part of the price difference.
    If there is a domestically produced equivalent, it's a level playing field. The GST is applied to both products equally. We still have the right to equalize the tariff, imho.

    But when there isn't (as in the F450), the additional taxes are effectively just a higher tariff. I had a friend in Oz that had a construction business. He desperately wanted a truck for his business, but the cost was prohibitively high due to the class of vehicle.


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