Arsenal Democracy, how will it affect manufacturing?
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 88
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1937
    Likes (Received)
    2012

    Default Arsenal Democracy, how will it affect manufacturing?

    Trump signed the order for Wartime Production but has not acted on it. It does not look like there is a single agency that is assigned to managing production resources to produce necessary medical supplies and equipment locally. What is coming out of the WH is jaw flapping, why there are no orders to GE to stop any other orders and start making ventilators for the US market only, use any and all facilities to manufacture the parts in the US realign the supply chains? Tell 3M and Gore and Dupont to wramp up PPE production, order all distilleries to start brewing sanitizers, there are many things the feds can order industry under the law. WTF happened to America First? If a US manufacturer can still fulfill orders for ventilators for China, that ain't America first, that is profits first. In WW2 ford retooled to make bombers in a matter of days, GM tanks, etc. how difficult is it to change from fabric to masks, from tires to gloves? This country needs to come-together.,

    Also, Trump needs to get off the podium, he can not stop lying.


    dee
    ;-D

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    46
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Trump signed the order for Wartime Production put has not acted on it. It does not look like there is a single agency that is assigned to managing production resources to produce necessary medical supplies and equipment locally. What is coming out of the WH is jaw flapping, why there are no orders to GE to stop any other orders and start making ventilators for the US market only, use any and all facilities to manufacture the parts in the US realign the supply chains? Tell 3M and Gore and Dupont to wramp up PPE production, order all distilleries to start brewing sanitizers, there are many things the feds can order industry under the law. WTF happened to America First? If a US manufacturer can still fulfill orders for ventilators for China, that ain't America first, that is profits first. In WW2 ford retooled to make bombers in a matter of days, GM tanks, etc. how difficult is it to change from fabric to masks, from tires to gloves? This country needs to come together.,

    Also, Trump needs to get off the podium, he can not stop lying.


    dee
    ;-D
    "jaw flapping" No shortage of that in your post.

  3. Likes Scottl, jbacc, Dualkit, millNchill, tdmidget and 6 others liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    5,306
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5093
    Likes (Received)
    5118

    Default

    Because the "need" to do this is based on computer models that produce huge numbers of victims, not actual needs. At this time respirators nationwide are not running out and the mask and glove shortage was caused by panic buying and hoarding. The solution to that is to allow anonymous drop-off of unopened surplus at municipal locations where they can then be distributed as needed.

    You and the other lefties are the ones who need to stop lying.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1937
    Likes (Received)
    2012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Because the "need" to do this is based on computer models that produce huge numbers of victims, not actual needs. At this time respirators nationwide are not running out and the mask and glove shortage was caused by panic buying and hoarding. The solution to that is to allow anonymous drop-off of unopened surplus at municipal locations where they can then be distributed as needed.

    You and the other lefties are the ones who need to stop lying.
    you know what...

    let's talk in 6 months and 2 million deaths later

    Coronavirus Outbreak: A Cascade of Warnings, Heard but Unheeded - The New York Times

    dee
    ;-D
    \

  6. Likes StirlingMachine, Pariel liked this post
  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    1,126
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1026
    Likes (Received)
    190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    Trump signed the order for Wartime Production but has not acted on it. It does not look like there is a single agency that is assigned to managing production resources to produce necessary medical supplies and equipment locally. What is coming out of the WH is jaw flapping, why there are no orders to GE to stop any other orders and start making ventilators for the US market only, use any and all facilities to manufacture the parts in the US realign the supply chains? Tell 3M and Gore and Dupont to wramp up PPE production, order all distilleries to start brewing sanitizers, there are many things the feds can order industry under the law. WTF happened to America First? If a US manufacturer can still fulfill orders for ventilators for China, that ain't America first, that is profits first. In WW2 ford retooled to make bombers in a matter of days, GM tanks, etc. how difficult is it to change from fabric to masks, from tires to gloves? This country needs to come-together.,

    Also, Trump needs to get off the podium, he can not stop lying.


    dee
    ;-D
    At least he took the act and dusted it off. You would criticize him hard in any way that you want. What if the act made you super rich? I do think under these conditions people are looking to survive and are not needing handouts either. Sure if needed then do it yet do it for the American people. It would be nice if those who hate Trump to just damp down the excessive and obsessive bickering.

    We are Ameri cans not Ameri can’ts. Nip the Trump derangement syndrome in the bud on this one issue. When you persist then others ignore any points you may present which could be helpful.

  8. Likes Scottl, jbacc, millNchill, tdmidget, Dupa3872 and 4 others liked this post
  9. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    95
    Likes (Received)
    146

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    you know what...

    let's talk in 6 months and 2 million deaths later

    Coronavirus Outbreak: A Cascade of Warnings, Heard but Unheeded - The New York Times

    dee
    ;-D
    \
    Stop posting.

  10. Likes jbacc, millNchill, tdmidget, Dualkit, empwoer and 2 others liked this post
  11. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    5,306
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5093
    Likes (Received)
    5118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    you know what...

    let's talk in 6 months and 2 million deaths later

    Coronavirus Outbreak: A Cascade of Warnings, Heard but Unheeded - The New York Times

    dee
    ;-D
    \
    Fair enough. I've archived your post so we can compare your 2 million number with reality later.


    Quote Originally Posted by dodgin View Post
    Stop posting.
    Nah, he's got every right to post his opinion and others have a right to post different ones. Agree with him or not he's a lot more pleasant than some who can't resist constant personal attacks on other posters.

  12. Likes dcsipo, Trueturning, Dualkit, millNchill, 9100 and 1 others liked this post
  13. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1937
    Likes (Received)
    2012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trueturning View Post
    At least he took the act and dusted it off. You would criticize him hard in any way that you want. What if the act made you super rich? I do think under these conditions people are looking to survive and are not needing handouts either. Sure if needed then do it yet do it for the American people. It would be nice if those who hate Trump to just damp down the excessive and obsessive bickering.

    We are Ameri cans not Ameri can’ts. Nip the Trump derangement syndrome in the bud on this one issue. When you persist then others ignore any points you may present which could be helpful.
    I am not the only one who does not trust Trump, every time he opens his mouth the market drops. But I do not really care about that right now. I want a cohesive plan and directions, not self-adulation form a dear leader. Just the facts, and how to solve this, The scientist are the only reliable source and they are being contradicted every time. Get on his press conference that is on right now, it is a cluster f. Why is Jerod Kushi in charge, he knows zilch about crisis management, FEMA and DoD are full of experts, DoD knows how to move supplies, but Esper is in the dark. and there is not a designated general to handle logistics, the governors are taking on the tasks the feds need to handle. Plan, act, asses, replan and manage the outcomes, the WH is doing jack.


    Would you not roll op your sleeves and start making fittings for Ventilators in your shop if the feds placed an order?

    dee
    ;-D

  14. Likes Bobw, Milland, Greg White, neilho, e-fishin-c liked this post
  15. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    8,624
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    462
    Likes (Received)
    7078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    ..... In WW2 ford retooled to make bombers in a matter of days, GM tanks, etc. how difficult is it to change from fabric to masks, from tires to gloves? This country needs to come-together.,
    ;-D
    A matter of days? I think you underestimate how long it takes to switch over.
    I know GM and Ford have teams of people looking at what can be done, the problem is time and lack of equipment.
    Where are the machines, dies, etc going to come from? how long to build those?
    It takes two months to change over to a new CV joint and those machines are already on the dock waiting and the staff knows how to make this part.
    Bob

  16. Likes Scottl, Dupa3872, macds liked this post
  17. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    1,126
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1026
    Likes (Received)
    190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    I am not the only one who does not trust Trump, every time he opens his mouth the market drops. But I do not really care about that right now. I want a cohesive plan and directions, not self-adulation form a dear leader. Just the facts, and how to solve this, The scientist are the only reliable source and they are being contradicted every time. Get on his press conference that is on right now, it is a cluster f. Why is Jerod Kushi in charge, he knows zilch about crisis management, FEMA and DoD are full of experts, DoD knows how to move supplies, but Esper is in the dark. and there is not a designated general to handle logistics, the governors are taking on the tasks the feds need to handle. Plan, act, asses, replan and manage the outcomes, the WH is doing jack.


    Would you not roll op your sleeves and start making fittings for Ventilators in your shop if the feds placed an order?

    dee
    ;-D
    You are right. You are much more polite when you disagree. Perhaps you dwell in bad company. Without your reasonable input all this should go to the delete bin. Mod is likely fine the way things are. He might even agree with you on politics maybe. We just do not really know now a days.

  18. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1937
    Likes (Received)
    2012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    A matter of days? I think you underestimate how long it takes to switch over.
    I know GM and Ford have teams of people looking at what can be done, the problem is time and lack of equipment.
    Where are the machines, dies, etc going to come from? how long to build those?
    It takes two months to change over to a new CV joint and those machines are already on the dock waiting and the staff knows how to make this part.
    Bob
    You are right, it does take a lot of time to change entire assembly lines, But this pandemic was not a mystery, it was known in January, now we know the extent and there is still no plan...Elon Musk said they can start making ventilators in 2 months, Mary Barra stated she is game to try whatever...others said let's do it, where is the leadership to make it happen? Not trying leads to instant failure.

    Some of the things are easy, some of them are really hard, but everything is impossible without managing things.



    dee
    ;-D

  19. #12
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canandaigua, NY, USA
    Posts
    3,000
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    151
    Likes (Received)
    1373

    Default

    Locally, we have a distillery already starting up sanitizer production. Oddly, their big problem is proper bottles to put the stuff in. It may end up looking like beer, but don't drink it! We also just had a local paint store, who had gotten in a pallet of masks, donate them to a food distribution center and a local hospital. Ventilators are a bit more difficult, plus you need the therapists to run/monitor them.

  20. Likes dcsipo, Trueturning, TheOldCar liked this post
  21. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1937
    Likes (Received)
    2012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Hoffman View Post
    Locally, we have a distillery already starting up sanitizer production. Oddly, their big problem is proper bottles to put the stuff in. It may end up looking like beer, but don't drink it! We also just had a local paint store, who had gotten in a pallet of masks, donate them to a food distribution center and a local hospital. Ventilators are a bit more difficult, plus you need the therapists to run/monitor them.
    Gov. Quomo just said that if he could, he would order local manufacturers to start producing needed supplies and equipment, but he has no authority to do so, the feds do. But he said if you have a proposal to make something, like masks if you are a clothing manufacturer, he will buy it if you want to manufacturer something needed he will fund it. He is keenly aware of the size of the crisis. Governors are trying to do the right thing. I am not a big fan of our governor, but kudos for the job Gov. Hogan is doing right now, and how he is mobilizing what he can. I can't say I see the same initiative from the WH.

    dee
    ;-D

  22. Likes Bobw liked this post
  23. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    8,624
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    462
    Likes (Received)
    7078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    You are right, it does take a lot of time to change entire assembly lines, But this pandemic was not a mystery, it was known in January, now we know the extent and there is still no plan...[/video]
    ;-D
    Familiar with ventilators. Many are not.
    Dad on one for the over the max which is 14 days, after 2 weeks a trach is needed. A whole nother deal.
    Eventually they sit down the family and discuss turning it off.
    In this meeting they talk about peaceful and what to expect.
    Being the engineer I'm , Okay, got this, basic you suffocate". One sister goes off the deep end with that idea. I should not have said that.
    They said to expect hours, It went a week of us rotating shifts sitting next to him as he gurgled air.
    That not unexpected to me, Dad always one tough SOB.

    People going crazy for these devices and this is the first line. They have a short time use limit before you get well.
    Not a cure or months worth of help. A two week stop gap.
    Maybe in that time your immune system brings out the napalm and fire fights the bug. Odds are not so good even if we had 200 million of these machines and the beds for all.
    At this point it seems we have no treatment. Sort of "I can keep you alive for a few extra weeks and maybe luck on your side".

    It is a really shitty deal all around. Perhaps slow to act but there is no act that works yet.

    PPE for our heath workers perhaps a different story and a ramp up here seems needed. People on the front lines and I would think afraid to go to work.
    Put yourself in those shoes. At what point to these simply not show up for work and stay home to be safe?
    Met a nurse in a grocery line the other night, fit to be tied, wound up like no clock has ever been.
    Bob

  24. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1937
    Likes (Received)
    2012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Familiar with ventilators. Many are not.
    Dad on one for the over the max which is 14 days, after 2 weeks a trach is needed. A whole nother deal.
    Eventually they sit down the family and discuss turning it off.
    In this meeting they talk about peaceful and what to expect.
    Being the engineer I'm , Okay, got this, basic you suffocate". One sister goes off the deep end with that idea. I should not have said that.
    They said to expect hours, It went a week of us rotating shifts sitting next to him as he gurgled air.
    That not unexpected to me, Dad always one tough SOB.

    People going crazy for these devices and this is the first line. They have a short time use limit before you get well.
    Not a cure or months worth of help. A two week stop gap.
    Maybe in that time your immune system brings out the napalm and fire fights the bug. Odds are not so good even if we had 200 million of these machines and the beds for all.
    At this point it seems we have no treatment. Sort of "I can keep you alive for a few extra weeks and maybe luck on your side".

    It is a really shitty deal all around. Perhaps slow to act but there is no act that works yet.

    PPE for our heath workers perhaps a different story and a ramp up here seems needed. People on the front lines and I would think afraid to go to work.
    Put yourself in those shoes. At what point to these simply not show up for work and stay home to be safe?
    Met a nurse in a grocery line the other night, fit to be tied, wound up like no clock has ever been.
    Bob
    Look, I am not a doctor but work with many of them. They say a,b and c are in short supply. They will not solve the problem it is on the rest of us. I manage large projects, deal with complex problems. My job is to avoid failure. I hate to see inept management. When I look at the federal effort my assessment is that they are a dismal failure. Given the resources of the feds, they could be moving mountains by now.


    Edit: Just looked it up, a ventilator is about 5K According to the CDC we will need 750,000 or so of them, a total cost of 3.5 Billion. Don't tell me the feds cannot cough that up.

    dee
    ;-D

  25. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    343
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    133

    Default Arsenal Democracy, how will it affect manufacturing?

    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    PPE for our heath workers perhaps a different story and a ramp up here seems needed. People on the front lines and I would think afraid to go to work.
    Put yourself in those shoes. At what point to these simply not show up for work and stay home to be safe?
    One has to suck it up, go back to work and put one’s self in harms way. The analogy to wartime is not that far off.

    Totally agree on the need for more PPE.

  26. Likes Trueturning, empwoer, 1yesca liked this post
  27. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    5,306
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5093
    Likes (Received)
    5118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Hoffman View Post
    Locally, we have a distillery already starting up sanitizer production. Oddly, their big problem is proper bottles to put the stuff in. It may end up looking like beer, but don't drink it! We also just had a local paint store, who had gotten in a pallet of masks, donate them to a food distribution center and a local hospital. Ventilators are a bit more difficult, plus you need the therapists to run/monitor them.
    They may be in violation of FDA rules. A friend asked a compounding pharmacy if they could make sanitizer and the guy said that while they had the materials and the knowledge to do so they were prohibited by law. He didn't ask if it was state or federal law so it may just be a Mass. thing.

  28. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1937
    Likes (Received)
    2012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    They may be in violation of FDA rules. A friend asked a compounding pharmacy if they could make sanitizer and the guy said that while they had the materials and the knowledge to do so they were prohibited by law. He didn't ask if it was state or federal law so it may just be a Mass. thing.
    The WH can override that with a stroke of a pen. They also control the FDA. Scotl, one cannot have it both ways. If we adopt Arsenal Democracy then let's go in all the way. order all industry to march to a common goal and manage the crisis. If you just want to politicize the situation here is the recipe for that:



    dee
    ;-D

  29. Likes Greg White liked this post
  30. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    7,922
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    342
    Likes (Received)
    1941

    Default

    Ignoring the obvious primary intent of the thread ...

    According to a report on NPR yesterday, there are some changes that came out as a result of the declaration.
    Namely that some of the safety masks ( by 3M, Dupont and some others ) designed for industrial use, but are also effective in filtering the virus are
    now approved for medical use without explicit FDA blessing.
    The manufacturers of these masks are also ordered to provide, and states are allowed to procure these on their own directly, outside of the regular channels.

    Again, it wasn't on Fox, rather NPR 'stead so there must be some truth to it.

  31. Likes dcsipo, Greg White liked this post
  32. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    1,126
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1026
    Likes (Received)
    190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    You are right, it does take a lot of time to change entire assembly lines, But this pandemic was not a mystery, it was known in January, now we know the extent and there is still no plan...Elon Musk said they can start making ventilators in 2 months, Mary Barra stated she is game to try whatever...others said let's do it, where is the leadership to make it happen? Not trying leads to instant failure.

    Some of the things are easy, some of them are really hard, but everything is impossible without managing things.



    dee
    ;-D
    It is the case many people on this bandwagon were mentioning their wished scenario of this pandemic and that the weak should not take up medical resources and just die. Now many of the same ones now want to make parts for ventilators to keep people alive. Next is what have China make them and beat down manufacturing here? I suppose it can be understood considering the details and how these can be ramped up for sure.

  33. Likes dcsipo liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •