Biden 2020 Campaign Industrial Policy
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    Default Biden 2020 Campaign Industrial Policy

    I just read a WSJ article that takes from some campaigning he's done in the rust belt. He's explained some more of his proposed industrial policy.

    "Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden called Wednesday for higher taxes on U.S. companies’ foreign income and special tax breaks for domestic manufacturing, appealing to blue-collar workers during a trip to Michigan.

    Mr. Biden would impose a new surtax on U.S. companies that make products overseas and sell back into the U.S. He would also raise the minimum taxes on U.S. companies’ foreign income and offer a 10% tax credit for certain investments in domestic production.

    The new tax proposals would broaden the U.S. tax code’s global reach, marking a return toward the international tax system that was in existence before the 2017 law. Mr. Biden argues that Mr. Trump gave U.S. companies so steep a discount that they have incentives to operate abroad rather than in the U.S. He had already called for raising the U.S. tax rate to 28% from 21% and setting the minimum tax on foreign profits at 21%, up from 10.5%. The new proposals announced Wednesday go further, changing the structure of the minimum tax to make companies pay more.

    The U.S. rate was cut to 21% from 35%, making it more in line with other major industrialized countries and reducing the potential gains from cross-border profit shifting. On foreign income, U.S. companies generally face a residual U.S. tax if their foreign taxes are relatively low; if they pay nothing abroad, they pay a 10.5% rate to the U.S. That minimum tax is based on companies’ total non-U.S. tax rates, after excluding an amount equal to 10% of tangible assets.

    Mr. Biden would no longer let companies exclude that 10%, and he would apply the minimum tax on a country-by-country basis. That country-by-country rule means that U.S. companies could no longer avoid the minimum tax by blending profits in low-tax jurisdictions such as Ireland with profits in high-tax jurisdictions such as Germany.

    Before the 2017 law, U.S. companies owed a 35% U.S. tax on their world-wide income. They could get credits for foreign taxes paid and defer any remaining U.S. taxes until they brought their profits home. That system created incentives to shift profits into low-tax jurisdictions and leave them there. Still, U.S.-based companies argued that those rules made it hard for them to compete in foreign markets, because they faced potential levies that their non-U.S. competitors didn’t.

    The 2017 tax law tried to reduce tax avoidance while also helping U.S. companies compete abroad, said George Callas, who was an aide to then-House Speaker Paul Ryan (R., Wis.) when the law was written. The result was a narrower tax disparity between profits earned in the U.S. and profits booked abroad.

    But the 2017 law still left too many opportunities for tax avoidance, said Kimberly Clausing, an economist at Reed College who has volunteered to help the Biden campaign with policy.

    In addition, Mr. Biden would impose a 10% “offshoring tax penalty” on the profits made by U.S. companies abroad for sales back to the U.S. That could be challenging to administer and would need further details.

    Because many of these changes affect only U.S.-based companies, there would be a new premium on having a foreign headquarters. Mr. Biden’s plan includes curbs on inversion deals that let companies shift their addresses. Still, the advantages of having a foreign headquarters could make some U.S. firms targets for takeovers.

    In addition to the tax increase, Mr. Biden is proposing incentives that would lower taxes for domestic companies. Mr. Biden’s proposed 10% tax credit for certain investments in domestic production aims to give companies an incentive to retool factories or bring jobs into the country.
    "

    Biden Pushes Higher Taxes on U.S. Companies’ Foreign Profits in Pitch to Midwest Voters - WSJ

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    Until those "soon to be taxed" companies "Lawyer up".

    also it will die in congress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Until those "soon to be taxed" companies "Lawyer up".

    also it will die in congress.
    The bit about taxing profits from producing overseas and then selling into the US sounds like "I want to tariff goods but do not want to explicitly levy tariffs". So many problems with this that without explanation, I think it's worth completely and totally disregarding. If the company is private - how are you going to ascertain what sales are from the US market only? Even if it's public, there may be loopholes in how the IRS would get this information and how companies would present it - idk. Secondly, wouldn't that simply incentivize foreign-HQ companies to sell into the US market? Afterall, they wouldn't be subject to this tax. If the goal is to tax offshored products, then simply levying tariffs makes much more sense. I think that part is just never-Trumpism. At best, you could levy non-tariff barriers to do this that would still not be tariffs, but have essentially the same effect. The USMCA did a lot of that with the auto sector.

    The other parts of it, I'm not so sure. The tax break for investment sounds good - the Opportunity Zone part of the 2017 tax plan also did this, but only for 250 or so census tracts. Overall, it seems like the taxing of US companies directly would simply incentivize them to further move away from manufacturing and just focus on importing and selling, etc., because foreign companies would not fall under these rules. So actually, that seems like it would do the opposite of what it was intended to do.

    I think you're right on it being words more than matter. Same as with Trump, or any politician, you can claim anything, but once it goes through Congress, goes back and forth through committee, negotiations and concessions are made between parties and districts, it could be heavily watered down. I would have a lot more faith in these proposals from anyone if they actually made sure every time to include a list of all the reps and senators they spoke with on it and a list of each's yay or nay, and had a draft bill written up to go along with it. Either way, it's interesting to see some more details from his campaign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    The bit about taxing profits from producing overseas and then selling into the US sounds like "I want to tariff goods but do not want to explicitly levy tariffs". So many problems with this that without explanation, I think it's worth completely and totally disregarding. If the company is private - how are you going to ascertain what sales are from the US market only? Even if it's public, there may be loopholes in how the IRS would get this information and how companies would present it - idk. Secondly, wouldn't that simply incentivize foreign-HQ companies to sell into the US market? Afterall, they wouldn't be subject to this tax. If the goal is to tax offshored products, then simply levying tariffs makes much more sense. I think that part is just never-Trumpism. At best, you could levy non-tariff barriers to do this that would still not be tariffs, but have essentially the same effect. The USMCA did a lot of that with the auto sector.

    The other parts of it, I'm not so sure. The tax break for investment sounds good - the Opportunity Zone part of the 2017 tax plan also did this, but only for 250 or so census tracts. Overall, it seems like the taxing of US companies directly would simply incentivize them to further move away from manufacturing and just focus on importing and selling, etc., because foreign companies would not fall under these rules. So actually, that seems like it would do the opposite of what it was intended to do.

    I think you're right on it being words more than matter. Same as with Trump, or any politician, you can claim anything, but once it goes through Congress, goes back and forth through committee, negotiations and concessions are made between parties and districts, it could be heavily watered down. Either way, it's interesting to see some more details from his campaign.
    Do you think that empty suit came up with any of that? Have you heard him interviewed lately? He sounds like my grandfather before he died of brain cancer. If Biden wins the commie chick will be president within 6 months, scares the shit out of me and I'm fearless!

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    Is he going to do all of this before, during, or after groping innocent women? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Is he going to do all of this before, during, or after groping innocent women? lol
    Doesn't matter, the lame stream media will cover it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyc123 View Post
    Either way, it's interesting to see some more details from his campaign.
    Not really, it's simply chad discharged from a missile to throw off the radar.

    Useless tinfoil.

    He was vice prez under: "if you like your doctor, you've got to vote it in to find out what's in it, and you didn't build this", and on and on.

    Broken promises and out right lies.

    No need to waste precious time on garbage.

    Trump promised to build the wall, and even with stiff resistance from many fronts, progress is being made on an actual, physical wall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Do you think that empty suit came up with any of that? Have you heard him interviewed lately? He sounds like my grandfather before he died of brain cancer. If Biden wins the commie chick will be president within 6 months, scares the shit out of me and I'm fearless!
    That's the fallacy, thinking that SloJoe came up with, or can even understand this policy by himself. He's a puppet of the DNC and can barely speak coherently. Any policy he's putting forward isn't his, it's what his handlers want.

    Though maybe we're all just lying dog-faced pony soldiers.

    Check out his crowds. He can't fill a single door garage. Trump fills stadiums to the point where thousands have to watch from outside the venue. Maybe all the left's enthusiasm is being used on protesting and looting.


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    If there is not any definitive and exhaustive evidence about how the outsourcing of manufacturing began and the players then I doubt anything really will change a whole lot. Notice no definitive sources on how this all started and picked up momentum. It began around the time of when the service sector was portrayed as the big business opportunity.

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    I REALLY try not to get too crazy about the promises of any politician...after all, how many of them ever actually get fulfilled in the precise way they are stated during campaigns. As a farmer who has converted my dairy operation to a cabinetmaking, antique furniture restoration and machine works, what I am hearing is that my business and personal taxes are likely to roughly double under Biden’s tax plan. What is more concerning are his straight forward adoption of the Bernie Sanders tax and spend platform where all the new taxes that he proposes are going to get distributed to folks who won’t work (I have no beef with the truly disabled who just can’t find a niche in our capitalist economy).
    He has laid out a 104 Trillion $ spending plan over 10 years. That’s fine and I’d love to get in on it except the problem that our National Tax Collected for 2020 is estimated at 2.6 Trillion $...
    Admittedly my field is theoretical Physics by education but the mathification of getting 10 years of spending an ave. of 10.4 Trillion in addition to the annual budget of 4 Trillion (already wildly more than taxes collected) to an annual bill of 14.4 Trillion$ out of a maximum of 3.2 Trillion projected tax collections (if the economy drastically recovers and foreign based manufacturers actually begin paying taxes on their foreign based income..(HUUUGE ‘IF’)..
    Besides a grand headache this leads me to suspect that either 300% of GDP is going to be collected in taxes or these wonderful promises are based on fluff and extrapolation of an economy that can exist only in the promises of a politician.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gewehr 98 View Post
    Check out his crowds. He can't fill a single door garage.
    Oh, but he CAN do!

    Mainstream media will never show it, but his low, mumbling voice in that church meeting was appropriate. There were only EIGHT people in attendance that were not staff or security detail!

    "nuther recent visit, a small tribe of "casual" Trump fans that showed up in VERY modest numbers to heckle still managed to OUTnumber the Biden supporters!

    Fossilized f*****t Biden is on track to making a rabies outbreak look "popular", by comparison!

    Catch it early enough, rabies can be treated more cheaply and effectively as well.

    Go figure this was the BEST his party could find to put forth AS their best?

    Can we please be spared further sight of what the REST of them have degenerated to as well?

    The party of Jefferson...Davis... has become a travesty of a political party. Not a "big tent". A big garbidge dump!

    Harry Truman were alive, he'd put a BOUNTY on their fool heads, wipe the board, and start the-f**k-over from scratch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legamin View Post
    I REALLY try not to get too crazy about the promises of any politician...after all, how many of them ever actually get fulfilled in the precise way they are stated during campaigns. As a farmer who has converted my dairy operation to a cabinetmaking, antique furniture restoration and machine works, what I am hearing is that my business and personal taxes are likely to roughly double under Biden’s tax plan. What is more concerning are his straight forward adoption of the Bernie Sanders tax and spend platform where all the new taxes that he proposes are going to get distributed to folks who won’t work (I have no beef with the truly disabled who just can’t find a niche in our capitalist economy).
    He has laid out a 104 Trillion $ spending plan over 10 years. That’s fine and I’d love to get in on it except the problem that our National Tax Collected for 2020 is estimated at 2.6 Trillion $...
    Admittedly my field is theoretical Physics by education but the mathification of getting 10 years of spending an ave. of 10.4 Trillion in addition to the annual budget of 4 Trillion (already wildly more than taxes collected) to an annual bill of 14.4 Trillion$ out of a maximum of 3.2 Trillion projected tax collections (if the economy drastically recovers and foreign based manufacturers actually begin paying taxes on their foreign based income..(HUUUGE ‘IF’)..
    Besides a grand headache this leads me to suspect that either 300% of GDP is going to be collected in taxes or these wonderful promises are based on fluff and extrapolation of an economy that can exist only in the promises of a politician.
    Politicians suck.

    politicians.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2020-06-24-13_58_36-ot-opening-up-best-we-can.-aka-still-just-seasonal-flu_-p.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSplitter View Post
    Politicians suck.

    politicians.jpg
    Some did do exactly that. More than just the one. More than just the one time. Back when they had any use at all.

    Remember LBJ's driver? T'was said the Presidential Limo wasn't a CONvertible, it was a PERvertible.

    Top didn't go down. The driver did!

    BFD.

    Now they aren't even any good at scalp massages

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    All these calculafiycations rely on the proposition that 1+1=2.....it is my considered opinion that the US does not intend to pay back any of the vast sums borrowed,so the numbers have no meaning.And at some point the US can declare that as interest rates are zero ,there will never be any further record kept of who has loaned what to the US,and no repayment.

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    Now ,for my economic plan....Its very simple ,everyone makes their own money .....but every note must be hand drawn,by you,signed,not printed ,and the only legal tender will be $1.....so if you need $50 for food ,you will have to make up 50 notes...........The whole genius of this scheme is that it is physically impossible for the rich to spend their riches,so they wont object to Bernies Taxation.........Now I can see some problems with this idea,but they have already been solved by the Vietnamese,where the currency is kept in large bundles* on the footpath outside the bank ,and only the pens and paper need to be locked up.......*somewhat the size of haybales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Now ,for my economic plan....Its very simple ,everyone makes their own money .....but every note must be hand drawn,by you,signed,not printed ,and the only legal tender will be $1.....so if you need $50 for food ,you will have to make up 50 notes...........The whole genius of this scheme is that it is physically impossible for the rich to spend their riches,so they wont object to Bernies Taxation.........Now I can see some problems with this idea,but they have already been solved by the Vietnamese,where the currency is kept in large bundles* on the footpath outside the bank ,and only the pens and paper need to be locked up.......*somewhat the size of haybales.
    Yes the Vietnamese model. We will make a note of that. Carry on.

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    Could was a turning point has just been passed?

    And noticed. Biden visits with the family of the perp.. but ignores his VICTIM.. who had called 911 to bring the police - not the first time harmed by him?

    And one of the PD's posts the mug shots of a gang of noxious vandals caught in the act.

    Not LOST on ALL of the "black community" that these vicious Bidenite assholes were white, privileged, spoilt brats of the psycopathic "Clockwork Orange" morality.. or lack-of-any moral-compass AT ALL flavour.

    Seem odd that the "New Afrikan Black Panther Party" were not black? Simply rich kids trashing a neighbourhood not their own for cheap thrills and political "street cred" points?

    A lot of those biznesses looted and burned were minority owned, provided jobs to other minorities, were the closest and easiest place for local minorities short on transport or time away from minding their own job or family to shop.

    Bidenites think this is buying them minority votes?

    Herschel Walker says wealthy suspects arrested for rioting in NYC should get 'federal time'

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    Sixteen replies in . . . .and it looks like flies to flypaper. Oh no . . . someone says they want to support US manufacturing but they're not Trump.

    My opinion (over a decade or so) is that we should level the playing field by figuring an imputed cost of products made in countries that spew pollution, steal IP, don't honor warranties, don't participate in the safety recall system, etc. Maybe 10%. Maybe higher if that's what it takes to get a level playing field. Wouldn't matter if the faulty drywall, milk formula, fake UL appliance, coal-and-pollution intensive aluminum, or IP-stolen server came from a US, Chinese, Russian or whatever mix of owners - if it was built in, say, China - there's this "externalized cost" tariff backed up by real (if admittedly slightly fuzzy) data.

    US-based companies get a level playing field. Probably passes muster in terms of international trade law. Chinese companies either clean up their act or see their presence in Walmart drop as the prices of goods rise a bit.

    Be interesting to know how many Volvos are now made in China and exported to the US. Probably not many, since they're now making cars (despite being Chinese owned) in South Carolina. Buick, which apparently is only selling SUVs these days, makes an SUV in China and sells it into the US. We have no problem putting a temporary tariff on that during recent trade spats. A modest more permanent tariff along the lines noted above might make sense.

    If anyone thinks Trump has been up late nights running the spreadsheets to figure out this administration's trade policy in between tweets, they're sorely mistaken. Guys like Peter Navarro, for better or worse, are driving that. Only time Trump intervenes is for political expediency (e.g. Bolton's revelations about Trump, Xi, pork, and Huawei).

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    Be interesting to know how many Volvos are now made in China and exported to the US. Probably not many, since they're now making cars (despite being Chinese owned) in South Carolina. Buick, which apparently is only selling SUVs these days, makes an SUV in China and sells it into the US. We have no problem putting a temporary tariff on that during recent trade spats. A modest more permanent tariff along the lines noted above might make sense.
    One thing I'd like to see is how many China-made parts are being incorporated into US models. They say they "make" the cars in the US, but most of that is largely assembly. When I last looked at a couple breakdowns/estimations of various carmakers' domestic contents for US models, less than half had even 50% US content. Another problem with these estimations is that, because of the old NAFTA rules of origin, you could count a part that had foreign content as being 100% NAFTA-region made. (Something called "accumulation" makes that possible). Supposedly now that is going to be harder to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    All these calculafiycations rely on the proposition that 1+1=2.....it is my considered opinion that the US does not intend to pay back any of the vast sums borrowed,so the numbers have no meaning.And at some point the US can declare that as interest rates are zero ,there will never be any further record kept of who has loaned what to the US,and no repayment.
    One thing to keep in mind is that the US is its own biggest debt holder. Of the $26trillion in national debt only approx $6.7trillion is held by foreign countries. The rest is held by individuals, The Federal Reserves, various governmental agencies,etc. Almost all of this is held within the US. so in a sense the National debt is mainly an accounting game.

    I would agree with your perception that The US does not plan to pay it back. This all seems to be a shell game which in one sense I could care less about were the pea is. Since I see that this is a shell game. the best way to play the game since it is a shell game is not actually play the game on the table with the three shells. All of the real action is behind the front man.


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