Blast from the past - Brexit
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  1. #1
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    Default Blast from the past - Brexit

    Looks like things are coming together as I thought they would. Look at my post #156 on this from some time ago:
    What do you Brits think of the vote..?

    Than read today:Poland breaks ranks from EU Brexit unity – POLITICO

    Looks like EU unity is hanging by a small thread. Wait for the next shoe to drop. Italy?

    Never count out British diplomacy!

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    This brings a smile.

    I don't like the EU. "Central power" etc.

    The dwarves are for the dwarves!

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    Quote Originally Posted by juergenwt View Post
    Looks like things are coming together as I thought they would. Look at my post #156 on this from some time ago:
    What do you Brits think of the vote..?

    Than read today:Poland breaks ranks from EU Brexit unity – POLITICO

    Looks like EU unity is hanging by a small thread. Wait for the next shoe to drop. Italy?

    Never count out British diplomacy!
    Any of the other nations pondering leaving the EU will be thinking again after watching the train wreck that has been our attempt to leave the EU. Not British diplomacies finest hour.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Tyrone - you are right when one looks at the whole messy situation. What is fascinating is the way England always seems to find a way out.
    Now when you look at Poland's problem with the EU (their latest change to their constitution and Brussels reaction to it) and now playing the Brexit card to get Brussels to back off. A predictable move on Poland's part. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.Could be the EU will will call Poland's bluff by withholding some the generous supply of money given to the country (over 100 billion Euro).
    Could be Italy's turn next to make overtures to England in order to get the EU to loosen the purse strings. We shall see.

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    Quite a few countries are having issues with the EUSSR, The major one being Hungary, but also Poland, Austria, Italy, Greece and obviously the UK. I would imagine the EU are playing hardball with the UK to deter anyone else bolting for the door. Brexit could cause real pain not only for the UK but also Germany, as the UK is a huge market for their cars.

    But as for eu unity hanging by a thread, i am not surprised, the whole migrant crisis really caused a lot of people cause for concern and the eu's answer for that is more migrants.

    The eu's deafness to peoples concerns has directly caused the rise of the right, and the far right, uncertain and scary times.

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    Having UK brexit negotiators who were in favour of brexit is an idiotic move. They don't respect the EU's principles and beliefs. They didn't and don't have a good motivation to get the smoothest and most mutually benificial result because they believe that we can go back to the days when Britain was a great trading power. Unfortunatley that was over a century ago and isn't going to return while any of us are alive. A remainer negotiator would be predisposed to get a result that both sides are happy with. Which is rather neccessary when you outnumber the other side by 1 to 27...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Having UK brexit negotiators who were in favour of brexit is an idiotic move. They don't respect the EU's principles and beliefs. They didn't and don't have a good motivation to get the smoothest and most mutually benificial result because they believe that we can go back to the days when Britain was a great trading power. Unfortunatley that was over a century ago and isn't going to return while any of us are alive. A remainer negotiator would be predisposed to get a result that both sides are happy with. Which is rather neccessary when you outnumber the other side by 1 to 27...
    The "Issue" that I see is that there are "sides". The EU is supposed to be desirable. The evidence that it is NOT displays the problem.

    As to the "messy situation", well, NOTHING has changed yet, and the doom and gloom predictions have not played out. Why expect negative outcomes in the future.

    The world is a big place. Make friends where you can, and cut ties where you must. But NEVER grovel to a bunch of un-elected hypocrites!

    Those who would give up any freedom in hopes to gain security, deserve neither, and will lose both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Having UK brexit negotiators who were in favour of brexit is an idiotic move.
    Bit cornfused on this.

    What do you want ? A UK Brexit negotiator trying to undermine the job they were
    selected to do ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post

    But as for eu unity hanging by a thread, i am not surprised, the whole migrant crisis really caused a lot of people cause for concern and the eu's answer for that is more migrants.

    The eu's deafness to peoples concerns has directly caused the rise of the right, and the far right, uncertain and scary times.
    This is an issue to me also. The handling of the migrant crisis, and it turning into a "slow motion" invasion will be as consequential to Europe as many of its large wars have been. And the Bureaucrats being Bureaucrats doesn't make things easier...

    I can see a US of E, but not the way they're doing it. As for Poland, that's troubling because they're trying to bring back some dictatorial policies that are scary from a historic standpoint. Almost as bad as the muppet we have in the White House.

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    Will the independent Catalonia join the EU?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    Will the independent Catalonia join the EU?
    It doesn't work like that. Any country wanting to join has to have a "yes" from all the member countries. I doubt that Spain would vote "yes". Same as the time Scotland voted for independence there wasn't any guarantee they could become a member of the EU.

    Try reading this and you'll get why some things aren't easy.

    Explained: the controversial name dispute between Greece and FYR Macedonia | Euronews

    This also is informative although it's a pity expansion at one time overruled common sense.

    Conditions for membership - European Commission

    Which countries are on the waiting list to join the EU?

    Albania.
    Bosnia and Herzegovina.
    Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
    Kosovo
    Montenegro.
    Serbia.
    Turkey.

    Maybe the same as if some country wanted to become the 51st state. I can imagine flag manufacturers would be delighted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    Any of the other nations pondering leaving the EU will be thinking again after watching the train wreck that has been our attempt to leave the EU. Not British diplomacies finest hour.

    Regards Tyrone.
    So for us across the pond what has been the "train wreck"?
    Is the UK facing huge unemployment? Have your manufacturing industries collapsed?
    Wages in union shops been cut by 50% or more?
    The economy in turmoil and bread lines forming? House and property values selling at 10% of original?
    Here in the states and recently in Michigan we know what a real train wreck looks like.

    Seems to me the EU was a good idea but became a shell game.
    The Brits stood up, I'm sure they will be punished for doing so by the masters but .....
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    So for us across the pond what has been the "train wreck"?
    Is the UK facing huge unemployment? Have your manufacturing industries collapsed?
    Wages in union shops been cut by 50% or more?
    The economy in turmoil and bread lines forming? House and property values selling at 10% of original?
    Here in the states and recently in Michigan we know what a real train wreck looks like.

    Seems to me the EU was a good idea but became a shell game.
    The Brits stood up, I'm sure they will be punished for doing so by the masters but .....
    Bob
    I'm sure the UK will end up surviving but how things will end next year is anybody's guess. If it was only a matter of the UK against the EU then it could maybe have been resolved more amicably than it will be. The big problem, as I see it, is that within the UK opinions on what to do seem to be as divided as the vote to leave the EU. May doesn't even have the support from all in her own party so she has two battles going on at the same time. Sound familiar?

    To put it tactfully and diplomatically I think very many shit themselves when a majority voted ( 51.9% to 48.1% ) to leave the EU. The result of what was meant as a protest was more than was bargained for. It won't happen but I wonder if a new vote would end the same?

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    Thing is were leaving, yeah the northern irland borders going to be a mess, but we all knew that any rate and to be honest, most of England Scotland and Wales has other priorities.

    IMHO i would not pay too much attention to the press, its largely spin and bollocks. So long as leave means leave then we are free to once again do what we wish, one things for certain next years probably going to be odd and realistically its going to be 2025 ish before anyone can really look back and say this was a success or fail. If we succeed more may well follow.

    One thing that has become clear, the EU is not anything like what we had joined and is very much becoming the super state most fear - don't want to be part of. The EU stance on stuff is fair enough, but the attitude its being applied with sums up the very nature of people i don't want making life decisions for me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Having UK brexit negotiators who were in favour of brexit is an idiotic move. They don't respect the EU's principles and beliefs. They didn't and don't have a good motivation to get the smoothest and most mutually benificial result because they believe that we can go back to the days when Britain was a great trading power. Unfortunatley that was over a century ago and isn't going to return while any of us are alive. A remainer negotiator would be predisposed to get a result that both sides are happy with. Which is rather neccessary when you outnumber the other side by 1 to 27...
    The eu's principles?

    On paper free trade albeit goods or labour.

    Reality is Germany attempting a back door coop on Europe and Brussels is acting like a loan shark with poorer countries like Portugal.

    Countries with non European principles just joining to get access to grants(the devils dollar) and to allow their migrant workforce to bring back money.

    Sounds more like a elitist idea of fuck the indigenous population ,we want desperate poor people(migrant labour) that they can take advantage of.

    Europe may be good for the economy but not so much for the people. Thats always been the way.Treason is acceptable when it makes good business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    So for us across the pond what has been the "train wreck"?
    Is the UK facing huge unemployment? Have your manufacturing industries collapsed?
    Wages in union shops been cut by 50% or more?
    The economy in turmoil and bread lines forming? House and property values selling at 10% of original?
    Here in the states and recently in Michigan we know what a real train wreck looks like.

    Seems to me the EU was a good idea but became a shell game.
    The Brits stood up, I'm sure they will be punished for doing so by the masters but .....
    Bob
    The amateurish way we've conducted the negotiations is the train wreck. We haven't had second rate politicians conducting the discussions we've had third rate buffoons that have made us look foolish in the eyes of the rest of the EU.
    I agree we Mark on this. The days when half of the World map was coloured pink with the British Empire are long gone. You can't turn back the clock. Us leaving will be inconvenient for the rest of Europe but for the UK it will be much worse.
    I'm not too bent out of shape over this though because I remain to be convinced that Brexit will actually happen. The " Establishment " in this country don't want it to happen and they usually find a way of getting what they want.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    The amateurish way we've conducted the negotiations is the train wreck. We haven't had second rate politicians conducting the discussions we've had third rate buffoons that have made us look foolish in the eyes of the rest of the EU.
    .
    .

    I remain to be convinced that Brexit will actually happen. The " Establishment " in this country don't want it to happen and they usually find a way of getting what they want.
    Running "third rate buffoons" at the point of the alleged-spear is, of course, one of those ways.

    Almost called it "the American trick" - to bumble about obviously klewless f**king-up everything in sight whilst one's detractors clapped in glee.. and with no warning - were found to have become just another meal when the smokescreen had finally dissipated.

    OTOH?

    We LEARNED THAT TACTIC from "perfidious Albion" who had done the Romans for practice, then gone on to bamboozle much of the rest of the known world.

    Poland seems to have twigged to things not being quite as one-sided as all that, nor there being so much commonality, nor "Union" in the EU as some would wish were the case.

    Each EU member in turn is a good candidate to find SOMETHING - not the same things, mind - where they, too, would be better-off operating to mutual advantage with the UK than not.

    Three times, 1800 or so to present day - the map of Europe was mostly one colour, Britain standing a minority. Last two goes, progressively worse, and Blighty dependent on her young and still not all that strong former colonies.

    Those bonds are stronger than ever. Her "former colonies" no longer impoverished teenagers of small population, scant experience, nor slender resources.

    Going ever gets REALLY tough? UK could, one supposes, apply to become an Australian Territory, Canadian Province, a US State... or simply act as if "all of the above" were the new normal, averaged-out, and paperwork or no.

    Germany? France, Italy Es-painyah? GREASE!?

    Guess they could make study of Rooshin mandatory in German Schools, Arabic in French ones, Bankruptcy Law in Italy ....and otherwise in general?

    Been kept so busy pouncing on the UK, the EU have rather neglected their own garden. I do not think that is an accident.

    I did say "Perfidious Albion", yah?

    I I I I I

    NNNN

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Thing is were leaving, yeah the northern irland borders going to be a mess, but we all knew that any rate and to be honest, most of England Scotland and Wales has other priorities.

    IMHO i would not pay too much attention to the press, its largely spin and bollocks. So long as leave means leave then we are free to once again do what we wish, one things for certain next years probably going to be odd and realistically its going to be 2025 ish before anyone can really look back and say this was a success or fail. If we succeed more may well follow.

    One thing that has become clear, the EU is not anything like what we had joined and is very much becoming the super state most fear - don't want to be part of. The EU stance on stuff is fair enough, but the attitude its being applied with sums up the very nature of people i don't want making life decisions for me!

    "So long as leave means leave then we are free to once again do what we wish"
    for better or worse it's been years since any country could do as it wished.

    I agree 100% with your last paragraph.

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    Quite agree-things look very Iffy for us just now,especially if No Deal. However,I'm fairly sure that had we voted Remain it would have been Carte- Blanche for the EU to make us adopt the Euro and Schengen. Just as Iffy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TedinNorfolk View Post
    Quite agree-things look very Iffy for us just now,especially if No Deal. However,I'm fairly sure that had we voted Remain it would have been Carte- Blanche for the EU to make us adopt the Euro and Schengen. Just as Iffy.
    The way some countries aren't doing as "demanded" by the EU "top" makes me think that within the next decade EU might not look the same as it does today. The shift by some to "right wing" is increasing rather than decreasing. To US members then "right wing" here doesn't mean the same as it does to you.

    Hungary and Poland aren't "toeing the line", Italy is being "Italian" and in Sweden the result of their recent general election looks a mess. Other EU countries are looking on and the politicians in those countries, being politicians, are waiting to see which way the wind blows. In Germany Merkel certainly isn't without problems and the popularity wave Macron road in on in France could end up being a tsunami.

    All this certainly isn't making anything easier for the UK. Those politicians in the UK that advocated a "no" to the EU had no plan whatsoever as to what to do if they won. In fact they still don't. All know what they don't want to do but nobody can agree as to what to do. It's a case of UNITED YOU STAND, DIVIDED YOU FALL. Both the EU and the UK should get their act together.

    Me? I'm looking at what's happening with Brexit and the Trump "government" and thinking that one day it's going to make great Hollywood movie.

    Given time I think I can come up with a better title than The Rise And Fall Of Mediocracy.


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