Blast from the past - Brexit - Page 12
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  1. #221
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    No it's a description of those that think the UK will be better off isolated from it's largest market, having pissed off those people that had been their largest market 45 years ago.

    The European Parliament costs you personally less than £3 per year to run. The same for every other person in the EU. Are you really that hard up? It doesn't matter whether it's Weeley Parish council, The UK parliament or the EU parliament, every group needs something to organise it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    The Irish/Ulster border is something that is not possible to solve. Having inspections/customs between Eire and Ulster will not only cause problems to the inhabitants of the island, but could easily bring back the Troubles, which were one of the longest and (per capita) bloodiest civil wars in recent history. Not having them will be anathema to the isolationists because it'll put borders within the UK. I had two ideas, but both would probably end in tears:-
    1) Go back to the status-quo ante 1916 and have the UK invade Eire and take it over again .
    2) Have all of Ulster be a free trade port, like Hong Kong was. So no borders at either end!
    I've suggested option 2 elsewhere.

    I also suggested an option 3: give Northern Ireland back to the rest of the place and walk away. Evacuate anyone who wants to leave & settle them in Glasgow or somewhere equally undesirable. Let them remaining fight it out to the death; I have no time for religious bigots of any flavour so a pox on the lot of them that can't live in peace.

    The free trade port leads to smuggling big-time so in practice you'd need checks on the English ports or effectively the entire UK would be a free trade zone. Note that I'm not saying that would necessarily be a bad thing, just it's hard to do half a job on border controls.

    I see no downside for Australia no matter what so I frankly don't care what you do, it's all entertainment from the cheap seats.

    PDW

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  4. #223
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    I don't see the "isolation" aspect. Unless the EU is not a free market economy. And if it is not, Why not? organized profiteering?

    Present Non-EU nations in Europe do not make a stink about isolation. Perhaps they are the silent type.

    I'm against organization, and would never be associated with any that would have me as a member ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I don't see the "isolation" aspect. Unless the EU is not a free market economy. And if it is not, Why not? organized profiteering?

    Present Non-EU nations in Europe do not make a stink about isolation. Perhaps they are the silent type.

    I'm against organization, and would never be associated with any that would have me as a member ;-)
    It's about as free market economy as the USA is.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I'm against organization, and would never be associated with any that would have me as a member ;-)
    Aren't the 50 US states organized to make one single country?

    is the EU a free market economy - Google Search

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    ...No group of people larger than a very small town or village can be run mainly by the elected officials. There's always the back-office guys pulling most of the weight under the direction of the politicos. The hypocrisy comes in stating that one organisation (the EU) has it, while others (UK Government, even my local town council) don't have exactly the same setup. That doesn't make him a Fascist, it just makes him a liar.
    While I'm certainly not an expert on the body language and speech nuances of British politicians, I didn't hear Rees-Mogg claim that local control is inherently any less amenable to corruption than foreign control. He does seem to imply—in appealingly trenchant terms—that OUR crooks would be more palatable to us than THEIR crooks. I can identify with that, albeit from a distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by pressbrake1
    ...I hate the fact my local town is run by east European gangsters.
    Yeah, like that^^. While it may be a stretch to lump the "gnomes of Brussels" in with the Russian Mafia—or their brethren—there is still the supreme irritant of being dictated to by an alien culture. It adds another level to the alienation, like seeing your streets full of burkhas. One only has to acknowledge that the formation of the EU facilitated that, to understand why Brexit won.

    Rees-Mogg is right to be concerned that the Brexit referendum will be negated by political or judiciary maneuvering, a phenomenon we have seen in the US any number of times and which in 2016 resulted in the election of Trump. So far the ability of our higher courts to legislate has been somewhat curtailed by his appointments. Soon we will see which side's outrage proves the more motivating. But from the point of view of a libertarian Conservative in the US, it's easy to sympathize with Brexit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    Rees-Mogg is right to be concerned that the Brexit referendum will be negated by political or judiciary maneuvering, a phenomenon we have seen in the US any number of times and which in 2016 resulted in the election of Trump. So far the ability of our higher courts to legislate has been somewhat curtailed by his appointments. Soon we will see which side's outrage proves the more motivating. But from the point of view of a libertarian Conservative in the US, it's easy to sympathize with Brexit.
    Interesting comment.
    Bush beat Gore through judicial/political maneuvering.
    And of course, trump won because of political maneuvering.
    Even more interesting is that the current round of SCOTUS appointments are in place due to political maneuvering.

    In the USA it seems you are in favor of political and judicial maneuvering to maintain and further you positions, yet over seas you are the opposite.
    I think you just care about political power being excercise in ways you want it to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Aren't the 50 US states organized to make one single country?

    is the EU a free market economy - Google Search
    Yes, And the original intent has been nibbled away systematically since day one.

    And I don't like it!

    " The Tenth Amendment's simple language—“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”—emphasizes that the inclusion of a bill of rights does not change the fundamental character of the national government."

    Those who would surrender any freedom in exchange for any promise of security, deserve neither, and will LOOSE BOTH!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    Mr Trump has every right to make US policy as he sees fit. Absolutely.
    No, he does not. Trump is not a king. The right to regulate trade is reserved to Congress. As I've said before, rutabagas are not an issue of national security.

    But this does illustrate a few things ... one is the "our Constitution is so strong" group, who apparently fail to notice that their constitution is about as strong as a piece of wet tisue paper.

    Another is the hypocrisy of so many "we believe in laws and democracy, not political bureaucracies such as the EPA." Except these same people are happy as clams when it is their guy trampling the law.

    Trump has not the power to do any of this shit. But he does it with no opposition ... rule of law, yeah sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    No, he does not. Trump is not a king. The right to regulate trade is reserved to Congress. As I've said before, rutabagas are not an issue of national security.

    But this does illustrate a few things ... one is the "our Constitution is so strong" group, who apparently fail to notice that their constitution is about as strong as a piece of wet tisue paper.

    Another is the hypocrisy of so many "we believe in laws and democracy, not political bureaucracies such as the EPA." Except these same people are happy as clams when it is their guy trampling the law.

    Trump has not the power to do any of this shit. But he does it with no opposition ... rule of law, yeah sure.
    I had exactly those same feeling about Obama. I didn't and DON"T want it to continue.
    Politicians have no backbone. There are three branches of our Government. All three need to be strong.
    And that goes for the forth leg of the stool as well. That is "THE PEOPLE!".

    I hope The People of England get to again enjoy the fresh air of independence soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I had exactly those same feeling about Obama. I didn't and DON"T want it to continue.
    Me, too, as a matter of fact

    Even Tricky Dick had to pretend to follow the laws but these days, these creeps do whatever they want and Congress just sits there with its collective thumb up its ass. Congress should be boiled in oil. They took an oath.

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  14. #232
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    Brexit's falling apart at the moment. The Government could be on the way out over this.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Yep, the mess is starting, on the plus side, finally we might start to get some were. The irish problems are just insane, any were else in the world we just shoot terrorists, in northern Ireland there still shooting out knee caps and the police do fuck all to stop em. its a fucked up shit hole best given back to the irish IMHO stop the flights and ferries to there and its no longer a issue, its not like its even a remotely significant trade rout for stuff we can't get else were.

    Im sorta at the point i don't care what happens, so long as something does, make a plan stick to it and implement it at the agreed times, give everyone some certainty back, anything that removes more tiers of government is great in my eyes, stupid regulations, far flung wars against non existant threats don't benefit me or the people i know - interact with on a daily basis. every level above the local county councils just takes more than they return to us here in Suffolk, so i really don't see how we can lose. Theres plenty of people with money around here and its a nice place to live, there not going to change those 2 basic facts so im predicting the sun will probably come up as usual tomorrow and my poo will still probably stink! And the BREXIT mess and bullshit will continue.

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    You have my sincere sympathy re Brexit. It is a mess. Why a new vote wasn't taken a while ago is beyond me as now all understand the pros and cons. If still a NO then a hard Brexit. If YES then back to square one (fight from within) and try and change the stupidity of the EU bureaucrats trying to turn Europe into some weird version of the USA.

    One thing both (EU and USA) have in common at present is unpopular "governments".

    Maybe Northern Ireland should hook up with Ireland

    The Richest Countries in Europe - WorldAtlas.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    You have my sincere sympathy re Brexit. It is a mess. Why a new vote wasn't taken a while ago is beyond me as now all understand the pros and cons. If still a NO then a hard Brexit. If YES then back to square one (fight from within) and try and change the stupidity of the EU bureaucrats trying to turn Europe into some weird version of the USA.

    One thing both (EU and USA) have in common at present is unpopular "governments".

    Maybe Northern Ireland should hook up with Ireland

    The Richest Countries in Europe - WorldAtlas.com
    A pal of mine who has Irish heritage voted to leave solely because he expected a leave vote to bring a United Ireland closer.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Just noticed reporting about Brittan problems due to Brexit. I notice there have been discussions about the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. problems with terrorists still abound from what I read here. It seems that for all the E.U. has brought that the way it is all set up that everyone would be glad to be in it ,and not wishing to exit. Seperation from the E.U. seems like trying to get out of a gang.

    I hope things settle down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Congress should be boiled in oil. They took an oath.
    Peppermint oil. At least they won't smell like shit while they are being deep fried!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Just noticed reporting about Brittan problems due to Brexit. I notice there have been discussions about the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. problems with terrorists still abound from what I read here. It seems that for all the E.U. has brought that the way it is all set up that everyone would be glad to be in it ,and not wishing to exit. Seperation from the E.U. seems like trying to get out of a gang.

    I hope things settle down.
    The "discussion" is not about the border. It's about trade between an EU country and a non EU country. As things are at present no pasport control or import/export restrictions. That would change.

    Just travelling from Denmark to Norway (which I do) there is pasport and customs control. Going from Norway to Denmark - NOTHING.
    Norway isn't an EU country.

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    Looks like Denmark is friendly to the UK they are promoting for workers.

    Fed up with Brexit Britain? Come to work in Denmark | Morten Ostergaard | Opinion | The Guardian

    Sort of disruptive this whole needed transition. Staying in definitely seems to mold Britain into some kind of peculiar E.U. buracracy. The exit date is in May of next year or it may have been delayed. I don’t know.

    I mean no disrespect on this topic. I am learning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Looks like Denmark is friendly to the UK they are promoting for workers.

    Fed up with Brexit Britain? Come to work in Denmark | Morten Ostergaard | Opinion | The Guardian

    Sort of disruptive this whole needed transition. Staying in definitely seems to mold Britain into some kind of peculiar E.U. buracracy. The exit date is in May of next year or it may have been delayed. I don’t know.

    I mean no disrespect on this topic. I am learning.
    The reason Denmark joined the EU (or EEC as it was at that time) was only because the UK did. The relationship between the UK and Denmark has been excellent for as long as I can remember and longer than I have lived.

    As to the guy in the article probably the Danish politician I dislike most. He and his party have wanted open borders for decades and are the main reason we have the immigration problems we have today. His political party gets smaller and that makes me He (Morten Ostergaard) is responsible for his partys decreasing popularity the past few years.

    Danish Social Liberal Party - Wikipedia


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