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  1. #3301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Gordon is it the case that to do a Brexit there must be these kinds of things going on to a certain extent? Here even if Congress is working on the people's work they still will be just plain dramatic in the meanwhile doing it. What is the worst is when they put the people's work on the back burner and just fight one side against the other with supporting News organization supporting , feeding, and provoking. A real mess and now quite common.
    Nope. What's going on just now is unusual to say the least. The UK has made this into the mess it has become from the very beginning by holding a vote for domestic reasons and the outcome backfired big time.

    May has continually gone back and forth to the EU and each time trying to get 27 countries to help get her out of a mess. If you notice then it's never been about what the UK wants. It's always been about what they don't want and the fractions in parliament (they can't be called parties as each party isn't in agreement with each other) all want something different.

    How do you arrive at any kind of agreement with someone that only seems to know what they don't want? Every time the EU thinks they've agreed on something with May it gets rejected in parliament and back she comes wanting something else!

    The EU isn't a country. It's an organization of 28 (yet) independent countries and they don't want to babysit the UK.

    The EU gets presented as pulling stuff down on the poor Brits. BS. What the UK EU politicians have been doing in the EU parliament so far I don't know.

    List of European Union member states by political system - Wikipedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    So I'm sat watching BBC question time and Catherine Barnard (EU Law professor) said that the UK was always on the back foot from the beginning, because the Withdrawal Agreement was created by the EU.
    Now I always assumed that, but it just confirmed it.
    Of course it was created by the EU. It was agreed on by 28 countries one of which was the UK. The EU is 28 countries and not a single entity. The UK is one of those 28 countries with plenty of influence if they paid attention in class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I never pegged you for an opera fan, Limy

    Now I'm gonna have the damned flight of the valkyries in my mind all afternoon !

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    I'm hoping that the EU gets filled to the brim with the spineless UK MPs etc. and kick BRITON right out on their ears. Everyone would be better off! And, The matter would be done!

    But no, the Brussels Bunch is much too greedy and self serving. A billion pounds every month adds up... after time. Three months now, six months then, ad infinitum.

    Spineless! All of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Nope. What's going on just now is unusual to say the least. The UK has made this into the mess it has become from the very beginning by holding a vote for domestic reasons and the outcome backfired big time.

    May has continually gone back and forth to the EU and each time trying to get 27 countries to help get her out of a mess. If you notice then it's never been about what the UK wants. It's always been about what they don't want and the fractions in parliament (they can't be called parties as each party isn't in agreement with each other) all want something different.

    How do you arrive at any kind of agreement with someone that only seems to know what they don't want? Every time the EU thinks they've agreed on something with May it gets rejected in parliament and back she comes wanting something else!

    The EU isn't a country. It's an organization of 28 (yet) independent countries and they don't want to babysit the UK.

    The EU gets presented as pulling stuff down on the poor Brits. BS. What the UK EU politicians have been doing in the EU parliament so far I don't know.

    List of European Union member states by political system - Wikipedia
    They don’t even know what they DONT want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    We were trying to save South Viet Nam from takeover by the Communist North Viet Nam. An idealistic and woefully ill-advised project of JFK, later a colossally mismanaged ego trip of LBJ, but there is no doubt whatever that the Viet Cong, and later the North Vietnamese Army, was the enemy of the noncommunist South which the US was ostensibly aiding and which by extension was our enemy.
    Okay, since you don't throw words around without foundation, I'll mention a few facts.

    Vietnam had been its own country / society / whatever for hundreds of years. THERE WAS NEVER ANY NORTH OR SOUTH VIETNAM.

    France colonized the area and called it French Indo-China. Many Vietnamese resisted.

    These same resisters fought against Japan alongside the US in the area during World War II.

    After World War II they expected to be freed of colonialism and French control. Mr Harry Truman stabbed them in the back.

    Ho Chih Minh then went to the People's Republic of China for arms and money aid.

    The US, under Eisenhower, started paying France to keep their armies in Vietnam in 1952.

    The same pre-war resistance finally beat the French decisively at Dien Bien Phu. The money we gave them was not enough, they quit.

    At the Geneva Conference deciding the withdrawal of French forces, the six nations involved agreed that the rebels would temporarily withdraw to the north while the Loyalist toadies in Saigon would stay in the south, until elections could be held to determine who would be the acknowledged government of the country.

    That was the creation of "North" and "South" Vietnam.

    It never really existed. There was no real government in the South. First it was the French puppet government, then it was whatever military dictators could suck up enough money from the US to keep themselves in palaces and singsong girls.

    There was no South Vietnam. Ever. It was a creation of the US, which refused to allow the elections called for in the cease-fire agreement following the French defeat.

    That's not myths I pulled out my ass. Those are the facts. You may research them. In fact, please do. It was all documented fifty years ago and more.

    Sorry for the Brexerruption but I am opposed to fake news. Oldwrench is mistaken about the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    I'm hoping that the EU gets filled to the brim with the spineless UK MPs etc. and kick BRITON right out on their ears. Everyone would be better off! And, The matter would be done!

    But no, the Brussels Bunch is much too greedy and self serving. A billion pounds every month adds up... after time. Three months now, six months then, ad infinitum.

    Spineless! All of them
    Maybe the EU can learn by doing the same as congress? Oh, oh. What is it congress is doing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Oh, oh. What is it congress is doing?
    Taking bribes.

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    From my national newspaper this morning. Friday 15th.

    We have (at least until next general election in a few months) 10 political parties in our parliament. 2 of them are very EU critical but the most EU critical one has, up until now, wanted a vote in Denmark similar to the UK one.

    They have now changed their minds after witnessing what has been going on in the UK. They've now arrived at any for or against the EU vote here must be given very careful thought as to the consequences.

    In 2015 22% in Denmark wanted to leave the EU. In 2018 that dropped to 14% and it'd probably be even less today.

    Thus a belated "thank you" to the UK for showing us what not to do.

    Apparently nothing is so bad it isn't good for something!

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    ^ If thoes percentages are correct, then a vote would do nothing.

    Still kinda amazed how pro EU you are, then again it seams more like a chance just to bash us brits, no doubt your still bitter over Scotland not voting to leave us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    ^ If thoes percentages are correct, then a vote would do nothing.

    Still kinda amazed how pro EU you are, then again it seams more like a chance just to bash us brits, no doubt your still bitter over Scotland not voting to leave us.
    You obviously haven't been reading my posts. I'm not pro EU, just not anti EU and especially not fanatically anti. There is a BIG difference. Being in the EU does have many advantages and of course some disadvantages. To me the advantages outweigh the disadvantages as I think Brits will find out after (if?) Brexit becomes a reality.

    I wasn't in favour of Scotland becoming independent. In fact very much against it. Sami and a few others, when I read what they wrote about Scotland, I turned 180º and am now in favour of an independent Scotland. Of course, now being Danish, my opinion on Scottish independence is irrelevant. It's up to them that live there.

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    I'll probably annoy a few but this whole Brexit farce is IMO very similar to THE WALL.

    An issue has gained so much momentum it's split political parties and citizens into two very angry groups of for and against with no apparent compromise in sight. The only thing they agree on is not to agree.

    Nobody wins and the only question is - who loses the most?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Sami and a few others, when I read what they wrote about Scotland, I turned 180º and am now in favour of an independent Scotland.
    YOUR fault Samuel!!!

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    Hay, so long as next time the whole of the kingdom gets to vote, trust me Gordon, i will happily cast my vote to set em free, it will save me a fair bit tax wise, as would getting shot of NI and wales. The 3 of em are all dependant on English wealth for the stds of living they have, ergo, yets set em free if thats there wish?

    Oh yeah i want a hard border too, think we could rebuild hadrians wall and make it a self funding profitable tourist hot spot for both sides, well if the scots can afford to and get it done before they sink so far into poverty they can't complete it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Paranoid doesn't even begin to describe some of you. Do you check your house for bugs (not the ones with legs) every night?
    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I think it's incorrect to think that this will not happen anyway, whatever the outcome.
    Afterall, GCHQ is THE central spy department for Europe...
    Regarding the spy "thing"...
    There's multi level agreements, 5 eyes, 9 eyes, and 14 eyes.
    The original is the 5 eyes and here's a comment regarding collaboration attached
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Hay, so long as next time the whole of the kingdom gets to vote, trust me Gordon, i will happily cast my vote to set em free, it will save me a fair bit tax wise, as would getting shot of NI and wales. The 3 of em are all dependant on English wealth for the stds of living they have, ergo, yets set em free if thats there wish?

    Oh yeah i want a hard border too, think we could rebuild hadrians wall and make it a self funding profitable tourist hot spot for both sides, well if the scots can afford to and get it done before they sink so far into poverty they can't complete it?
    You can always make a start by changing your "Location" asshole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    You can always make a start by changing your "Location" asshole.
    Working on it, things go to plan, we will have left Europe in a fortnight (look there goes a flying unicorn �� - since the police over here got helicopters, the flying pig �� terms become way too commonly spotted in reality to ever use it to describe a unlikely to occur event)

    Once Scotland leaves, yeah i will happily change the UK to England, soon as we then ditch the blue bit off the union jack flag yeah?

    Because you can argue as much as you wish about how much financial gains we will - will not get leaving the EU, but its black and white we have to pay to be a member there of hence there's savings to be had, real question is back to how much and who you believe that comes up with that number and as this thread has proven thats upto some serious pro level debate and arguably border line which craft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    YOUR fault Samuel!!!
    So what's new?


    Yes, a bit of verbal rough and tumble's fun, but I feel it's going too far.

    Seriously I think we should ALL (that's every body) calm down, stop deliberately winding others up / pressing their buttons and think what we say - before submitting the post
    Last edited by Limy Sami; 03-15-2019 at 12:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Do what's new?


    Yes, a bit of verbal rough and tumble's fun, but I feel it's going too far.

    Seriously I think we should ALL (that's every body) calm down, stop deliberately winding others up / pressing their buttons and think what we say - before submitting the post
    Limi it will keep going like you describe. Eventually there must be a move meanwhile this is part of their process. I can relate as our politics here is very contentious.

    A worthy goal yet we are Machinists also. In a shop just like on here the case is that in a shop at a certain point people have to (ideally should) fit into the shop whereas in this kind of forum people entrench most often if engaged in disagreements. Their daily life situation and decorum asks one thing in real life in the world and then their online socializing / life is quite different. I have found that things said on Social Media and forums are much more pugnacious in the online world than in real life..

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    Because you can argue as much as you wish about how much financial gains we will - will not get leaving the EU, but its black and white we have to pay to be a member there of hence there's savings to be had...
    Don't be too sure about that. As countries, we have subcontracted many legislative tasks to the EU parliament and Commission. Take for example aviation. The UK CAA used to have personal managing the certification and continued airworthiness oversight of aero engines (mostly RR) . As did the French (CFM/Snecma), the Germans (BMW RR) etc. When that competence was pooled starting 2003, some of those national specialist moved with their jobs to Köln, and continued doing them on the EU payroll. Those who remained in the national CAA's were reassigned/retired/not replaced. The CAA UK currently hasn't a single gas turbine certification specialist. The the net result was a reduction in overlap between the the national authorities. Approx 20 engine specialists in Köln are doing what a larger number of national authorities staff spread over 28 organisations used to do.

    While the UK wont pay into the EU budget, it will be required by international obligations such as ICAO, in the case of aviation, to recreate those positions nationally. This will cost the UK taxpayer more in total, as it recreates jobs in Whitehall in trade negotiation, medication certification, nuclear industry oversight and about 150 other areas where the EU has pooled rulemaking and some oversight tasks.

    Then again, seeing as all of the Rolls Royce aero engine type certificates have been transferred to RR Deutschland, maybe the UK won't have much work for specialists in such areas in the future?
    Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS) | EASA

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