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  1. #21
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    One of the things i think you need to remember at the moment theres going to be lots of noise from both sides like in any negotiation, will have minimal impact on reality to come though. Equally currencies are going to be as volatile as hell for a bit.

    As to trade, my business - product is global, eu trade accounts for circa 1/3 tops, a surprising amount though still heads to the old colonies as it were, a lot of probably a 1/4 or so of what i do ends up in oz or new Zealand.

    What pisses me of also is currently i can make a appointment and speak to any member of parliament in the uk with ease, either at there constitutional offices or at there parliamentary offices - meeting rooms etc, its very open. Its kinda a fundamental building block of uk politics and is a key factor in why the houses of parliament exist and why whilst we have a monarchy we are not ruled by her majesty. Mean while i do not even know who represents me in Europe and with out a government granted passport i very much can not go to Brussels and make contact with them in person to tell them were i think they should tell the EU to stick it.

    For centuries Englishmen and women have died to have the fredoms of democracy and be ruled by a elected leadership, the EU is gradually stripping that and giving it to countries with very different agender's. Historically its never worked, at best the Romans managed to keep it up for a few hundred years before the corruption destroyed it. Hence whilst i would like to trade with the EU and understand there must be some negatives to do so, it does not make it worth being there servants either! Outside of the EU trade deals theres still plenty of other customers and with out the EU shackles - regs theres a lot of savings to be had on a very wide range of products.

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    #3Tyrone.
    "Any of the other nations pondering leaving the EU will be thinking again after watching the train wreck that has been our attempt to leave the EU. Not British diplomacies finest hour."

    Because both sides in the negotiations are batting for the EU. The "Conservative" party has been infiltrated by socialists. Cameron threw his toys out of the pram, unfortunately he was replaced by May, The policy being followed is to REMAIN.

    #5 ronan
    "The eu's deafness to peoples concerns has directly caused the rise of the right, and the far right, uncertain and scary times"

    Far right? No, they are just ordinary people who are pissed off by attempts to turn Europe into a third world shithole by importing millions of people who hate us.

    #6 Mark Rand.
    "Having UK brexit negotiators who were in favour of brexit is an idiotic move"
    #1 Nonsense, see my response to Tyrone (#3)
    " A remainer negotiator would be predisposed to get a result that both sides are happy with. Which is rather neccessary when you outnumber
    the other side by 1 to 27..."
    #2 Compounding the nonsense, Remainers want to remain.

    #7 CalG
    "But NEVER grovel to a bunch of un-elected hypocrites!
    Those who would give up any freedom in hopes to gain security, deserve neither, and will lose both."

    Some sanity, thank you Cal.

    #8 digger doug (responding to #6)
    "What do you want ? A UK Brexit negotiator trying to undermine the job they were selected to do ?

    More sanity, thank you dd.
    Worrying that the sanity is coming from North America.

    #9 Milland
    " The handling of the migrant crisis, and it turning into a "slow motion" invasion will be as consequential to Europe as many of its large wars have been. And the Bureaucrats being Bureaucrats doesn't make things easier..."

    Invasion is the correct term, thank you.

    "Almost as bad as the muppet we have in the White House."

    I wish the UK, or almost anywhere in Europe had a leader as good as the muppet. At least he is on the side of Europeans.

    #14 adama
    Useful summary.

    #15 pressbrake1
    "Sounds more like a elitist idea of fuck the indigenous population"

    It's worse, exterminate the indigenous population, is the intent.

    #16 Tyrone
    "We haven't had second rate politicians conducting the discussions we've had third rate buffoons that have made us look foolish in the eyes of the rest of the EU."

    You have not been following developments. Olly Robbins is a Communist senior civil servant, except he is serving his own political ends, not the job he is paid to do. There are many other Communist fifth columnists in the treason pit which currently constitutes the UK public Sector.

    Also the eyes of the people of Europe, as distinct from the corrupt self-elected EU "elite", know what is happening.

    When Brexit happens the Administrators of the EU will become the enemy of the UK. They have been, for decades, the enemy of European people. A war will happen in Europe, maybe more than one. I just hope that someone like the muppet lives in the White House when this occurs.

    God Bless America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManicMetalBasher View Post
    Worrying that the sanity is coming from North America.
    Not by all by itself, it is not, nor even external to the UK.... but hold that thought..
    A war will happen in Europe, maybe more than one.
    All war is at core "economic". When, ever, have there NOT been "wars" afoot in Europe (and the world)? The current "highlights" German Bankstery up against China and the heirs to Britain's "thin red line". Strong as ever it was.
    I just hope that someone like the muppet lives in the White House when this occurs.

    God Bless America.
    God bless those "unelected" five "I" that understand survive and prevail for their ethos, hard-won liberties, clan, tribe, and personal family and arse, whether they agree even the least wit over the minor day and year DETAILS atall, yah mean.

    Common language. Common core values. Common law heritage. Common appreciation of Liberty. Loooong range thinking. Very.

    Damned tough act to follow, and bloody expensive, if not also suicidally dangerous to f**k with. Israel dasn't get "observer" status out of charity. They bring uniquely valuable contributions to the mix that provide yet-another crucial "edge".

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    Peter Sutherland, a creature from my home city, was an unelected EU commissioner, goldman sachs bagman, a mouthpiece for the UN, and one of the voices crying out for more migration into europe constantly. Don't believe me ? Watch the video below. This is what the EUSSR is about. His most noted statement ?

    "We must undermine the homogenity of the european peoples".

    Enjoy.

    https://youtu.be/RgSsM3MGLuk

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    Peter Sutherland, a creature from my home city, was an unelected EU commissioner, goldman sachs bagman, a mouthpiece for the UN, and one of the voices crying out for more migration into europe constantly. Don't believe me ? Watch the video below. This is what the EUSSR is about. His most noted statement ?

    "We must undermine the homogenity of the european peoples".

    Enjoy.

    https://youtu.be/RgSsM3MGLuk
    Amusing that you are surprised. Surprised that you are not amused.

    I looked up the back-story on the Sutherlands and Mackays only after present-day inheritors - a Barrister and a Board Chairman - explained their somewhat dodgy reputation for valuing loot over loyalty. No surprise, there, IOW. It's in the poor sod's Levi's.

    Now then.. Norsk, Geet, Scandihooligans in general, Balt, or Sassenach to Roman, Nordman, other Kings of France, Bonaparte, various Germanics, be they operating bombers or banks.....

    ANY time a "continental" gets their s**t sufficiently well-arranged to "leave home"?

    Ireland and the British Isles are in for shortages of food, ale, sleep, and even the loyalty of snatch, as wimmen hie-off opportunistically shagging interesting "visitors" with a few more bob in their pocket and different taste and body-odour than the local lads. Makes for less boring children. Even increases the probability of long-term survival, their genetic material.

    Never kid yourself they are unaware of that, either. Major contributor to why we are still HERE!

    Ergo.. ANYTHING that f**ks up the game-board of a(ny) "continental" is not a bad thing for the Isles atall.

    Now as to the "homogenity" of the Isles themselves? Well.. as a "crossroads" fifteen thousand years and counting, we never actually HAD any of that.

    What we have instead is a shared desire and appreciation for enough food, decent ale, a good shag, a good sleep after... and not being unduly trifled with as we go about whatever oddity we fancy, any given day, "career" or mere whim of the hour..

    How hard is that to understand? Aus, Canucks, Kiwi's, Septics - and even Sabrah's - "get it".

    F**k standardization or "regimentation". Our highest valued commodity is simply being left TF unmolested. We'll sort the rest individually, thanks.

    I'd have to class this lad an asset, long term... if only for the "confusion to your enemies" value!

    And when, ever, were our enemies NOT "confused"?

    Seeing to that is wot we DO BEST... even when they are us!


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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    One of the things i think you need to remember at the moment theres going to be lots of noise from both sides like in any negotiation, will have minimal impact on reality to come though. Equally currencies are going to be as volatile as hell for a bit.
    For about the last 10 years I have been saying about any of these "controversies"
    overblown by the media.

    "When all is said and done...allot more will be said, than done."

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    For about the last 10 years I have been saying about any of these "controversies"
    overblown by the media.

    "When all is said and done...allot more will be said, than done."
    Yes, talk is cheap and paper never refuses ink.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    Yes, talk is cheap and paper never refuses ink.
    Dead-tree paper was "viral' enough.

    "Electronic paper" of the 'net make a fast-breeder nuke reactor look a "black hole" by comparison.

    Various "invisible hands" are strengthened, their effective power leveraged and multiplied by the fragmentation and waste of energy amongst the would-be obstacles as well, of course.

    Wise to "follow the money" and ask "who gains?".

    Just more WORK, both, than they once were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManicMetalBasher View Post
    #3Tyrone.
    "Any of the other nations pondering leaving the EU will be thinking again after watching the train wreck that has been our attempt to leave the EU. Not British diplomacies finest hour."

    Because both sides in the negotiations are batting for the EU. The "Conservative" party has been infiltrated by socialists. Cameron threw his toys out of the pram, unfortunately he was replaced by May, The policy being followed is to REMAIN.

    #5 ronan
    "The eu's deafness to peoples concerns has directly caused the rise of the right, and the far right, uncertain and scary times"

    Far right? No, they are just ordinary people who are pissed off by attempts to turn Europe into a third world shithole by importing millions of people who hate us.

    #6 Mark Rand.
    "Having UK brexit negotiators who were in favour of brexit is an idiotic move"
    #1 Nonsense, see my response to Tyrone (#3)
    " A remainer negotiator would be predisposed to get a result that both sides are happy with. Which is rather neccessary when you outnumber
    the other side by 1 to 27..."
    #2 Compounding the nonsense, Remainers want to remain.

    #7 CalG
    "But NEVER grovel to a bunch of un-elected hypocrites!
    Those who would give up any freedom in hopes to gain security, deserve neither, and will lose both."

    Some sanity, thank you Cal.

    #8 digger doug (responding to #6)
    "What do you want ? A UK Brexit negotiator trying to undermine the job they were selected to do ?

    More sanity, thank you dd.
    Worrying that the sanity is coming from North America.

    #9 Milland
    " The handling of the migrant crisis, and it turning into a "slow motion" invasion will be as consequential to Europe as many of its large wars have been. And the Bureaucrats being Bureaucrats doesn't make things easier..."

    Invasion is the correct term, thank you.

    "Almost as bad as the muppet we have in the White House."

    I wish the UK, or almost anywhere in Europe had a leader as good as the muppet. At least he is on the side of Europeans.

    #14 adama
    Useful summary.

    #15 pressbrake1
    "Sounds more like a elitist idea of fuck the indigenous population"

    It's worse, exterminate the indigenous population, is the intent.

    #16 Tyrone
    "We haven't had second rate politicians conducting the discussions we've had third rate buffoons that have made us look foolish in the eyes of the rest of the EU."

    You have not been following developments. Olly Robbins is a Communist senior civil servant, except he is serving his own political ends, not the job he is paid to do. There are many other Communist fifth columnists in the treason pit which currently constitutes the UK public Sector.

    Also the eyes of the people of Europe, as distinct from the corrupt self-elected EU "elite", know what is happening.

    When Brexit happens the Administrators of the EU will become the enemy of the UK. They have been, for decades, the enemy of European people. A war will happen in Europe, maybe more than one. I just hope that someone like the muppet lives in the White House when this occurs.

    God Bless America.
    You sound like a very angry man. More metal bashing and less manic would be best I think.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    You sound like a very angry man. More metal bashing and less manic would be best I think.

    Regards Tyrone.
    LOL! Average Brit would have to be angry as-in mad-as-a-hatter to express so much appreciation for a "muppet" even those who voted in wish had a factory RMA number already on an appropriate-sized shipping crate, freight prepaid, water, food, distemper shots, and air-holes optional!

    Our checks and balances could probably stand it if we swapped for May and Corbin as a package, based on body mass of meat.

    Not sure the UK could stand two dollars worth of that, though. And why wuddyah?

    Boris Johnson can do the "bad hair" schtick arredy, no extra charge, ordinary pub-grub rations!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    You sound like a very angry man. More metal bashing and less manic would be best I think.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Thing is Tyrone, a lot of people are angry. They have concerns and when they state those concerns, they get abuse or marginalised or ignored. It is amazing how out of touch people in power are with the ordinary voter or citizen. Sometimes shockingly so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    Thing is Tyrone, a lot of people are angry. They have concerns and when they state those concerns, they get abuse or marginalised or ignored. It is amazing how out of touch people in power are with the ordinary voter or citizen. Sometimes shockingly so.
    Roan? They are gamesmen. All of them. It is why they have the job, and Mother Theresa did something else.

    Keeping most of their constituents believing they are "out of touch" is a necessity.

    Be surprised only when an outcome is the predicted one. It doesn't happen often. It was not often meant to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    Thing is Tyrone, a lot of people are angry. They have concerns and when they state those concerns, they get abuse or marginalised or ignored. It is amazing how out of touch people in power are with the ordinary voter or citizen. Sometimes shockingly so.
    The dynamic could be similar to what brought Trump into office. It's no surprise that in times of economic and social "threats" (longstanding decline of living standards among much of the lower and middle classes, immigrants who are clearly "other" moving in) that there would be pushback.

    Even though I'm mostly very "Liberal" in my outlooks, there's some areas where I have agreements with the what used to be the Rational-Right. I'm for an effective boarder, with limits to who's let in. I'm for economic policies that encourage manufacturing and middle-class jobs, but not at the cost of raping the environment (that used to be a Right thing! Thank you, TR.).

    But instead we elected a Mussolini-wannabe, with the intellect and restraint of a three year old. Mr. MM Basher, you do not want to wish this man on the English people, not unless you wanted the other side to win in the 1940's.

    It is possible to balance economics, and political freedoms and civil rights. It takes bringing intelligent people into office, committed to good stewardship of our fiscal and physical environment.

    By electing the rabid Religious-Right, which we have now, the very people who want to destroy the land in exchange for the immediate dollar, while locking women in chains regarding their own bodies (I'm looking at you, Kavanaugh!), we're doing the opposite.

    So no matter where I might have agreement with the "Old Right", there's no aspect of them in power now, and I must stand with whatever the alternative is.

    Lie down with religious-psychotic dogs, wake up with racist fleas. No thanks...

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  21. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    Thing is Tyrone, a lot of people are angry. They have concerns and when they state those concerns, they get abuse or marginalised or ignored. It is amazing how out of touch people in power are with the ordinary voter or citizen. Sometimes shockingly so.
    Who runs European Union?

    The EU is run by five main institutions: the European Council, the Council of the European Union, the European Parliament, the European Commission and the Court of Justice. The European Council, which is the meeting place for heads of state or government, sets the EU's overall policy agenda and its priorities.

    Has the "top" in the EU become bigger that the "top" in the individual member countries. More and more that comes out of the EU, and IMO way beyond what they should be responsible for, can only be because the leaders of the member countries agree.

    Our prime ministers (plural because it's been the same for years) always publicly give the impression they don't always like what the EU does but it couldn't happen unless they said yes.

    I don't know for sure about how other countries elect their EU members but here (and I'm certain it is the same elsewhere) it's more often than not to get rid of annoying members of parliament or regarded as a very well paid cushy retirement job.

    As I've now written many times what the EU has become, and aspires to, is not what I voted yes to back in 1972.
    What I want EU to stop doing is imposing rules and regulations that apparently overrule our own rules and regulations. That gradually erodes national sovereignty. When I see how corrupt politicians are in as good as all south European countries I sure as hell don't want them influencing how we do and run things here.

    Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia

    Added: While we (Denmark) seem to be the least corrupt country that doesn't mean corruption doesn't exist. Corruption almost always does get revealed at some point in time. The difference is some countries just don't do anything about it.
    Last edited by Gordon B. Clarke; 09-23-2018 at 03:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    What I want EU to stop doing is imposing rules and regulations that apparently overrule our own rules and regulations. That gradually erodes national sovereignty.
    Sounds awfully familiar.

    The movement has been named "Daxit" arredy?

    Lego-off-it?

    Lego of Denmark?

    Or wot?

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  25. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Who runs European Union?

    The EU is run by five main institutions: the European Council, the Council of the European Union, the European Parliament, the European Commission and the Court of Justice. The European Council, which is the meeting place for heads of state or government, sets the EU's overall policy agenda and its priorities.

    Has the "top" in the EU become bigger that the "top" in the individual member countries. More and more that comes out of the EU, and IMO way beyond what they should be responsible for, can only be because the leaders of the member countries agree.

    Our prime ministers (plural because it's been the same for years) always publicly give the impression they don't always like what the EU does but it couldn't happen unless they said yes.

    I don't know for sure about how other countries elect their EU members but here (and I'm certain it is the same elsewhere) it's more often than not to get rid of annoying members of parliament or regarded as a very well paid cushy retirement job.

    As I've now written many times what the EU has become, and aspires to, is not what I voted yes to back in 1972.
    What I want EU to stop doing is imposing rules and regulations that apparently overrule our own rules and regulations. That gradually erodes national sovereignty. When I see how corrupt politicians are in as good as all south European countries I sure as hell don't want them influencing how we do and run things here.

    Corruption Perceptions Index - Wikipedia
    Power corrupts and no politician is going to be able to ignore the chance to build a empire.
    If Brussels was disbanded the(trade and movement) union could work again.

    A country without sovereignty is just a geographical and economic zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pressbrake1 View Post
    Power corrupts and no politician is going to be able to ignore the chance to build a empire.
    If Brussels was disbanded the(trade and movement) union could work again.

    A country without sovereignty is just a geographical and economic zone.
    I must admit it's going to be very interesting (now there's an understatement ) as to what happens within the EU after Brexit becomes reality. Will it be the long overdue "wake-up call"?

    It'd certainly help if the UK recovered quickly.

    The euro € in theory is an excellent idea but the same could also be said about communism Just goes to show that theory and practice are more often than not even close to being the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    The euro € in theory is an excellent idea but the same could also be said about communism
    Why do some folks think it comical that you even think there is a distinction?

    "From each according to his ability, to each according to the Fourth Reich's needs?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I must admit it's going to be very interesting (now there's an understatement ) as to what happens within the EU after Brexit becomes reality. Will it be the long overdue "wake-up call"?

    It'd certainly help if the UK recovered quickly.

    The euro € in theory is an excellent idea but the same could also be said about communism Just goes to show that theory and practice are more often than not even close to being the same thing.
    As I said earlier I remain to be convinced Brexit will actually happen. I said the same thing to Mrs Shoelaces the day after the Referendum. The " Establishment ", " Deep State ", Dark State ", whatever you want to call it don't want it and they usually find a way of getting what they want.

    The parallels with the Trump election are obvious.

    The people in the " Left behind " areas of the country are tired of being shat on by the elite. They don't mind being shat on some more just as long as the elite get shat on a bit too. I've got news for them - you'll get shat on some more but the elite will manage to dodge the shit because they always do.

    Regards Tyrone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I've got news for them - you'll get shat on some more but the elite will manage to dodge the shit because they always do.
    They don't actually HAVE to dodge it, but that's largely because they are the ones that placed the purchase order for the loo:

    A Company's Management and Employees 2-Story Outhouse


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