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  1. #4181
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    Very well put Hanermo

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    The exiteers stirred the pot to rile the discontented.
    With lies.
    All good and I agree with your post but will comment regarding the lies and specifically the 3x main pledges...

    Cameron had already failed (although a Conservative Party pledge but very clear they didn't want to do it) to "reduce net migration to the tens of thousands".
    The leave side said they wanted to get immigration under control and introduce an Australian points style system.
    I still think this is a sound idea.
    This is rolled into the "we'll be in charge of our own borders" pledge.

    Being free to trade with the whole world - what is wrong with this? Being in control of your own trade deals is surely a good thing?

    The big one....The Red Bus...
    The 350mill per week was (I thought) always a gross figure - yes there are rebates, but they're apparently difficult to be exact.
    May has subsequently gone on record (I posted the vid here long ago) saying after Brexit the NHS will get an extra £394 million.
    So the red bus was under-estimating...
    To understand where the figure comes from, this is Iain Duncan Smith explaining:-

    But my main point here is that if you go look at this, first of all, in practical terms £350 million - and it varies up and down all the time - is exactly what was in the Red Book at the time as the gross amount sent to the European Union.
    They plucked essentially what was out of the Red Book and said this is the gross amount that we send. They are now saying it was the net amount. The net amount is not kneaded out for another 12 months. So it’s quite legitimate to use the Red Book and to say this is the level of money we are sending the EU.
    The net amount, by the way, is a variable because quite a lot of the stuff that you’re supposed to net out beyond rebate doesn’t actually come to the UK.
    So again, estimating what that net out would be isn’t always accurate either way.

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    And to keep a little balance...regarding the lies from the other side of the cess pit...

    If people vote Leave, then:-

    There would be an emergency budget and a year long recession (George Osborne Chancellor of the Exchequer)
    The UK economy could shrink 8% in the year with a no deal (Mark Carnie Bank of England chief)
    We would be £4,300 worse off per family
    Our stock market would collapse
    The London banking sector will disappear (head of Deutsche and French National banks have both admitted that "the threats were all over exaggerated"
    As well as no planes flying, water shortages, food shortages, no prescription drugs/medicine, there will not be an EU army etc etc...

  5. #4184
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    We would be £4,300 worse off per family
    ..
    That bits definitely true, ….and we haven't even f'kn left yet!

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    Of course, once we start aggressively limiting immigration, all our emigrants will be deported back to the UK...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Of course, once we start aggressively limiting immigration, all our emigrants will be deported back to the UK...
    small laugh at attempted humour...
    IMO UK immigration won't be limited because *they* don't want to do it. If *they* did, it could have happened years ago

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    That bits definitely true, ….and we haven't even f'kn left yet!
    Hopefully things get busier for you

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    I put 3 of the regular posters in this thread on "ignore" for my own peace of mind
    It's mind boggling how few posts I now can read.

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    Come back to mechanics and machining. Politics and religion ought to be banned from the forum. Can we please delete this thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanola View Post
    Come back to mechanics and machining. Politics and religion ought to be banned from the forum. Can we please delete this thread?
    I certainly don't disagree with the fact that religion is out of place in this or any other thread. However this sub forum is about (or should be) manufacturing. Machining is part of that just as politics is. Politics, for better or worse, is affecting manufacturing in industrial countries in a way I don't regard as beneficial to "the man in the street".

    This sub forum has been allowed to run wild for too long (and no Spinit I don't mean that you are responsible) but as to how to moderate to get it back to what was originally intended I've no idea. I know which posts I'd delete (not threads, posts) but I doubt if all would agree with me. Some posts are more inflammatory than others and only serve to

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanola View Post
    Come back to mechanics and machining. Politics and religion ought to be banned from the forum. Can we please delete this thread?
    NO! because lump it or like it, whatever happens with the UK leaving the EU, in one way or another it affects the entire western world .................If this thread is closed I shall simply start another on the same subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanola View Post
    Come back to mechanics and machining. Politics and religion ought to be banned from the forum. Can we please delete this thread?
    If it bugs you that much, just leave the UK, emigrate to Switzerland, and you won't have to give a s**t what the EU OR the UK get up to.

    Oh.. wait... poor buggers are landlocked within EU turf, get threatened and leaned-on all the time, anyway.

    Lacking sea access and the English Channel?

    Guess yer stuffed even worse than the UK as to options, yah?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    NO! because lump it or like it, whatever happens with the UK leaving the EU, in one way or another it affects the entire western world .................If this thread is closed I shall simply start another on the same subject.
    Fighty Talk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    It will be interesting who replaces her. It does not look like a good position to fill with all that has happened.
    I don't know whether it would make any difference who is the next prime minister as the EU wish to control everything in Europe. How can any country in the EU protect its own industries? The EU is a long term project and they will keep kicking the Brexit can down the road continuously until they get what they want. Politicians who are voted out in their home countries can often look for well-paid jobs in the EU.




    BBC News -
    Do the rules prevent support for the steel industry?


    The EU Commission says too much steel is produced in Europe. As a result, it has been inclined to take a fairly tough line on state aid in this sector.
    In 2016 for example, the commission ordered Belgium to recover 211m euros in illegal state aid it had given to its steel industry.
    That does not mean all state aid is impossible, but the government would have to make a case that assistance was within the rules, or fell under one of the exemptions.
    One possibility would be to argue that the steel industry was essential for national security, but it is far from clear the commission would accept that.

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    So it's all good news then.
    Over the weekend, the UK is now officially "out of Austerity".
    The Conservative party leader candidates are throwing around money as if it was printed on a photocopier

    Ignoring the fact that there's 14.2million people now living in poverty, with 320,000 without a home and 1.6million food bank parcels distributed last year (and quantitive easing is starting again in the EU this month):-

    Boris has his leading pledge as a £10billion tax cut to the high earners (top 4%?). He's also offering to cut corporation tax for businesses too (which I would have welcomed).
    Hunt overs up a £20billion tax cut but will spend more on defence (#4EUArmy...)
    Raab offers a £30billion tax cut
    Gove top trumps by abolishing VAT which currently raises around £140billion a year.

    Andrea Leadsom who was the "leader of the houses of parliament" and Mays right hand woman, has announced that "Mays deal" (the Withdrawal Agreement) is now officially dead.

    So the Cons are trying to buy supporters back with offers of tax cuts, and we're back to square 1 with Brexit...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelt View Post
    I don't know whether it would make any difference who is the next prime minister as the EU wish to control everything in Europe. How can any country in the EU protect its own industries? The EU is a long term project and they will keep kicking the Brexit can down the road continuously until they get what they want. Politicians who are voted out in their home countries can often look for well-paid jobs in the EU.
    I suppose it is interesting that I'm also living in an EU country and my experiences are so different. The thought has crossed my mind more that once that way too many UK politicians either don't know what's going on or choose to misinform you. Take your pick.

    The whole "EU is screwing us" thing. You do know that the UK is still a part of the EU so you would seem to be screwing yourselves? Has anyone in the UK any idea of what their elected EU politicians actually do? It is possible for a single country to veto some proposals but how often has the UK done that?

    It'll be very interesting, if you do leave and I honestly hope that happens, is only then will you know the real pros and cons. It'll come as shock to many when they find out just how many pros there are compared to cons.

    As to "Politicians who are voted out in their home countries can often look for well-paid jobs in the EU." I'd like to know how you think that happens. Are there any UK politicians elected to the EU parliament that weren't elected for by Brits?

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    Simple ...happens everywhere ...failed political friends are rewarded by high paid positions in the bureaucracy.....support the EU,and be guaranteed a big office and a big paypacket in Brussles ,or wherever the EU has a presence.

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    There is a simple cure....erect a tariff wall against all goods from low labor cost countries......equalize the cost of all manufactures in the market......Return of tariffs is a certainty ,the idiots resisting this are p***ing into the wind..in fact the whole climate change paradigm is caused by ultra cheap labour rates making goods throwaway.........whats needed is a return to high cost,economic to repair ,items .And at a cost that makes buyers need the item,and value it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Simple ...happens everywhere ...failed political friends are rewarded by high paid positions in the bureaucracy.....support the EU,and be guaranteed a big office and a big paypacket in Brussles ,or wherever the EU has a presence.
    And you know this how? Are you and Nigel Farage exchanging emails?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    And you know this how? Are you and Nigel Farage exchanging emails?

    Neil Kinnock.

    quote from WalesOnlne


    Lord Kinnock has described how he changed his mind on Europe as a member of a party that once wanted Britain to pull out of the union.
    The former Labour leader, who went on to become an EU commissioner, was an opponent of membership of the Common Market in the 1975 referendum.


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