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  1. #4321
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Feudalism was replaced by capitalism. The rise of the merchant class is what ended feudalism.

    If Feudalism was a natural state of a capitalist system, it would still be with us today.

    @ Mark/Bill.

    When I refer to capitalism I am specifically referring to Free Enterprise Capitalism. Meaning voluntary, uncoerced commerce between people. Anything coerced or involuntary is not free enterprise capitalism.

    Capitalism arises naturally, and if there is no currency something is substituted. Whisky was money during the westward expansion. Native Americans used beads, etc.

    Any system that puts government in the center- in control as "managers" of the economy is bad. Whether you call it Marxism, Socialism, Fascism- doesn't matter. They are all varying degrees of the same thing and it's all bad for the people who have to live under it.
    And yet we are back to feudalism, where a very few control what is needed to survive.
    What is fundamentally different?
    A half dozen people control more wealth than the bottom half of the world.
    Government has been coopted to protect them from the masses.
    They live in fortresses surrounded by house forces.

    The rise of merchants was a blip, and the Medici themselves simply replaced the previous lords.

    If you want to see the people that fought the feudal system look at the pirates raiding state traders, and state monopolies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    You childhood experience has NOTHING to do with capitalism EXCEPT that capital allowed the news paper owner to pay you to deliver the news, and the fisherman boat owners (net owner?) capital allowed sufficient surplus to PAY you to clean up.

    If the fisherman had a single rod and reel, what would there have been for you? You benefited from another's capitalism, but your role was still one man, days work, ..... One man day's pay.
    More interesting is the natural resources were surplus.
    Go “fishing” that means there were fish, not to be made, but to be extracted.
    The dime toss...same thing.
    And where did those dimes come from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Didn't used to be a "free ride", anybody's family. World has been THAT way since before we were recognizably human. Each new member learns and grows, they take up whatever part of the family, clan, or tribe workload they can do.

    Each increment of advancement, however small, frees an older and more experienced member to move-up, too. "Kids" from just above toddlers distributing water and chicken feed to teenagers doing the heavier work left - for example - G'Dad to earn cash-money, 44 years, B&O Railroad, all whilst running a farm and orchard.

    Take the "land" and agriculture out of it, a more-recent example was a family of immigrants of my acquantance who did suspended ceilings. Whole krew was from one family of 8 kids.

    Both cases, everybody works, Everybody eats. No work. No eat.

    Didn't have to hear THAT message twice. Even as a snot-nosed kid, I recall I missed exactly ONE meal over it, then never again!

    What chores do you suppose the trump kids had?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    What chores do you suppose the trump kids had?
    Massaging their father's ego?

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  6. #4325
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    And you are allowing socialists to define capitalism for you.
    No, I'm trying to help you know the differences between a capitalistic system, and a society based on a constitutional republic with an individual bill of rights.

    Without the latter, capitalism, in it's extreme is slavery .

    Or else there would be no reasons for worker's unions etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    That is not capitalism per se. that is technological leverage.
    One man with ten thousand shovels is capitalism.

    One man can NOT utilize more than one shovel at a time.
    No gain there.

    No, that one man would need to employ the day labor of 10K "exploitables" , who could not on their own come to posses a shovel.
    Then that one man would need to STEAL the excess of those labors for his own benefit in order to full meet the definition of capitalist.

    Anything less is socialism, communism or altruism.

    And to the romantic notion of the "industrious child". Merely a family member, indentured by birth. Sure there is love respect and mutual benefit, but the "capitalist" comes to play in that the childs contribution is "excess production" out from the family unit. This excess is then taken from the youthful individual to the benefit of the Matriarch or patriarch. Call it natural socialism if you want. I mentioned that I thought as much when the societal unit is small enough. Like a family

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    Interesting points.

  9. #4328
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    One man can NOT utilize more than one shovel at a time.
    No gain there.

    No, that one man would need to employ the day labor of 10K "exploitables" , who could not on their own come to posses a shovel.
    Then that one man would need to STEAL the excess of those labors for his own benefit in order to full meet the definition of capitalist.

    Anything less is socialism, communism or altruism.

    And to the romantic notion of the "industrious child". Merely a family member, indentured by birth. Sure there is love respect and mutual benefit, but the "capitalist" comes to play in that the childs contribution is "excess production" out from the family unit. This excess is then taken from the youthful individual to the benefit of the Matriarch or patriarch. Call it natural socialism if you want. I mentioned that I thought as much when the societal unit is small enough. Like a family
    And speaking as a product ? / veteran? /survivor of the family business syndrome ;- F'k that for a game of soldiers
    Last edited by Limy Sami; 07-07-2019 at 02:39 PM. Reason: added veteran

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Interesting points.

    Exactly what we deserve, we keep asiding society's failures to professorial roles so the adults don't have to listen to their nattering.

    The kids get AFU, a "College Degree" becomes the most debt-intensive piece of worthless paper since Confederate banknotes ceased circulating.

    Lather, rinse, repeat, and the rot grows on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    3 posts and not one even remotely helpful.
    That is better than 2500 posts and not one even remotely helpful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    With the way things are going? (as in the US star is in the ascendency ) they'll get their asses kicked, thus giving certain of your countrymen something else to crow over (as if that was needed)
    Didn't I tell you https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48897032

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Europeans were cheated. Unfair advantage, US side.

    'murrican women spend their whole life, cradle to grave, kicking or otherwise busting balls for fun, vengeance, sport, profit, or just practice for future wars, one way or the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Clarke View Post
    That is better than 2500 posts and not one even remotely helpful.
    Even got the same profile photo
    Yup, that'll do it...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.jpg  

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  18. #4334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    What chores do you suppose the trump kids had?
    Jury is still out on young Baron, but the older ones?

    One might guess selling used cars or renting apartments to hard-to-convince tenants from the polished salesmanship and public speaking skills we've seen.

    I seriously doubt you'd want to BE one of them, even so.


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    BTW.. more serious matters..


    Anyone know if by this date HM Passport Office has for-sure used-up the "UK-EU" blanks and moved-on to UK-only ones?

    Been delaying renewal of my expired one until...

    THX

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    Lehman Brothers triggered the global financial crash in 2008.
    The US EU UK were all relatively stable politically at this time.
    If Deutsche Bank imminently crashes with all the political fragility, what could happen might make 2008 look small fry...

    Save

    Subscribe to read | Financial Times

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Europeans were cheated. Unfair advantage, US side.

    'murrican women spend their whole life, cradle to grave, kicking or otherwise busting balls for fun, vengeance, sport, profit, or just practice for future wars, one way or the other.
    Actually yes.
    Girls sports are subsidized.
    Title IX - Wikipedia

    The result is that schools need to make sure the money is there for girls athletics.
    Prior to that there was very little girls sports.
    What’s more athletic scholarships now go to young women too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Jury is still out on young Baron, but the older ones?

    One might guess selling used cars or renting apartments to hard-to-convince tenants from the polished salesmanship and public speaking skills we've seen.

    I seriously doubt you'd want to BE one of them, even so.

    From my POV I see very little of their life I’d want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'd knock your f*ckin' head off.
    You can huff, and you can puff, but you can't blow my house down.

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  25. #4340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    From my POV I see very little of their life I’d want.
    Hear yah. Far more profitable to have been McKenzie Bezos, yah?

    Mind - you might have had to work harder at getting the job.. but at least yah have the boolsheet skills well-developed, and "right here on PM".



    Anyway.. while the entire Trump "empire" is small-change as global "players" go... it makes no never-mind to us chickn's, does it?

    I never HAVE figured out how to spend some other Pilgrim's paycheck without doing the most unthinkable of pre-versions.

    Voting Socialist!

    . so as to gain the promise.. be f**ked out of the actual delivery (as usual) ... but be rewarded with the right to don the garb of a perpetual loser so I could whine for the rest of eternity that I'd been screwed out of life itself by "the rich".

    Think I'll pay my own damned grocery bills and stick to Virginia wine. In bottles.

    Doesn't cause cancer as Kalifornikyah wines proudly claim to be able to do.




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