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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    As I said earlier I remain to be convinced Brexit will actually happen.
    Regards Tyrone
    What should have happened when the chaos and mess became obvious was to have held another vote to see if it was still something the majority wanted. Even a parliamentary "where do you stand?" would have given voters a good idea as to who was screwing who. I don't really see any other option than a new vote as it isn't possible to be partly pregnant. You either are or you aren't.

    As a EU member the UK could have dragged its feet as some countries (Hungary and Poland and maybe Italy) are doing and made life very difficult for the bureaucrats. For better or worse what's needed is another Thatcher

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    What should have happened when the chaos and mess became obvious was to have held another vote to see if it was still something the majority wanted. Even a parliamentary "where do you stand?" would have given voters a good idea as to who was screwing who. I don't really see any other option than a new vote as it isn't possible to be partly pregnant. You either are or you aren't.

    As a EU member the UK could have dragged its feet as some countries (Hungary and Poland and maybe Italy) are doing and made life very difficult for the bureaucrats. For better or worse what's needed is another Thatcher
    I can't conceive of any problem, no matter how serious, that another Mrs Thatcher is the answer to. It's like advising someone with the flu to go and stand out in the rain. She was possibly the most divisive PM this country has ever had and the repercussions of her years in power will still be felt years from now.

    If there was a secret ballot in Parliament tomorrow Brexit would be voted out by quite a fair majority. Obviously that's not going to happen because that's not how our Parliament works. Some of our MP's are stuck in the position of having to vote for a concept that don't believe in. One day soon they will have to square the circle and find some way out of the mess they've got us in.

    When the dust has settled a decision will have to be made as to wether the Country actually wants to leave the EU or accept some other lesser deal. Parliament is too divided to take the decision.

    As a student of history I'm constantly reminded of the way in which the European Powers stumbled into the 1914-18 War. Nobody actually wanted a war but the vainglorious posturing of the various competing nations enabled a terrible catastrophe to occur as if by accident.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post


    When the dust has settled a decision will have to be made as to wether the Country actually wants to leave the EU or accept some other lesser deal. Parliament is too divided to take the decision.
    Just leave and get it over with.

    The rest of the world trades with the EU. I'm sure you guys can manage it if you actually want to.

    Big sticking point seems to be the Northern Ireland border. Leave it as-is and make any hard border controls the EU/Ireland's problem.

    If you guys back out now and beg to reverse things you're going to be a laughing stock planet-wide. Normally I'd take no notice of stuff like that but in this case, nobody is ever going to believe anything you say if you go back on Brexit. Your country's credibility WRT making and keeping hard decisions will be nonexistent.

    However much you might regret where you're at, you ARE there now and going back really isn't a viable option. You'd be asking for the biggest screwing that the EU could possibly think of.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    You sound like a very angry man. More metal bashing and less manic would be best I think.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Not surprising he is angry ,he has a very good insight into the reality of the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sable View Post
    Not surprising he is angry ,he has a very good insight into the reality of the situation.
    " Olly Robbins is a Communist " along with " The Pulic sector is riddled with Communist Fifth Columnists " ! All conspiring to block Brexit. Do me a favour, the guy's living on " Fantasy Island ". Somebody should tell him the official British Communist Party policy is in favour of Brexit !

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I can't conceive of any problem, no matter how serious, that another Mrs Thatcher is the answer to. It's like advising someone with the flu to go and stand out in the rain. She was possibly the most divisive PM this country has ever had and the repercussions of her years in power will still be felt years from now.

    If there was a secret ballot in Parliament tomorrow Brexit would be voted out by quite a fair majority.

    Regards Tyrone.
    You're reading things into my post that weren't there. At least not intentionally.

    My reference to Thatcher was that at least you'd know what she wanted to do. With May then I expect her to start tweeting soon so she can constantly change her mind.

    I also didn't mean a secret ballot. Isn't it possible to see how each member votes? A yes, no or a "I don't have an opinion, I'm here for the money". The latter are those that don't vote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sable View Post
    Not surprising he is angry ,he has a very good insight into the reality of the situation.
    Brexit is to the UK what Trump is to the USA - DEVISIVE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Brexit is to the UK what Trump is to the USA - DEVISIVE.
    And the EU doesn't like competition in that field!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    And the EU doesn't like competition in that field!
    Huh? I might agree with you if I knew what you meant. Competition from who and what?

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    Well the whole concept of the eu, aka the eussr, is vaguely communist, they take masses of tax money off wealthier nations, including the UK and hand it to countries that should never have been in the eu in the first place, countries like Greece, which are now struggling under massive debt, that i cannot see them ever being able to repay.

    When you hear negative rumblings in Germany about the eu, you know the eu is in trouble. Even here in Ireland where ass-kissing the eu is a national passtime, among the well off liberal elite anyway, there is an irexit party being formed. Unthinkable until now.

    The thing is, and i have said it earlier, the eu simply does not listen to peoples concerns. In the EU parliament its full steam ahead to a united states of europe, which imho no one apart from a few cranks like Guy Verhofstat actually want.

    As for Trump, when you have two parties in a country, both virtually indistingushable from each other same old faces, same old policies, people vote for either and nothing seems to change, so a mussolini, or a franco or a hitler suddenly looks like a viable alternative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    Well the whole concept of the eu, aka the eussr, is vaguely communist, they take masses of tax money off wealthier nations, including the UK and hand it to countries that should never have been in the eu in the first place, countries like Greece, which are now struggling under massive debt, that i cannot see them ever being able to repay.

    When you hear negative rumblings in Germany about the eu, you know the eu is in trouble. Even here in Ireland where ass-kissing the eu is a national passtime, among the well off liberal elite anyway, there is an irexit party being formed. Unthinkable until now.

    The thing is, and i have said it earlier, the eu simply does not listen to peoples concerns. In the EU parliament its full steam ahead to a united states of europe, which imho no one apart from a few cranks like Guy Verhofstat actually want.

    As for Trump, when you have two parties in a country, both virtually indistingushable from each other same old faces, same old policies, people vote for either and nothing seems to change, so a mussolini, or a franco or a hitler suddenly looks like a viable alternative.
    I'm starting to think you aren't pro EU

    Re the last paragraph in your post then I believe you've hit the nail on the head. There is no other logical explanation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'm starting to think you aren't pro EU

    Re the last paragraph in your post then I believe you've hit the nail on the head. There is no other logical explanation.
    You are correct, i am not. The old eec was fine, but its all gone too far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    Well the whole concept of the eu, aka the eussr, is vaguely communist, they take masses of tax money off wealthier nations, including the UK and hand it to countries that should never have been in the eu in the first place, countries like Greece, which are now struggling under massive debt, that i cannot see them ever being able to repay.

    When you hear negative rumblings in Germany about the eu, you know the eu is in trouble. Even here in Ireland where ass-kissing the eu is a national passtime, among the well off liberal elite anyway, there is an irexit party being formed. Unthinkable until now.

    The thing is, and i have said it earlier, the eu simply does not listen to peoples concerns. In the EU parliament its full steam ahead to a united states of europe, which imho no one apart from a few cranks like Guy Verhofstat actually want.

    As for Trump, when you have two parties in a country, both virtually indistingushable from each other same old faces, same old policies, people vote for either and nothing seems to change, so a mussolini, or a franco or a hitler suddenly looks like a viable alternative.
    The day you start thinking that a Mussolini, Hitler or a Franco is a " viable alternative " is the day you make an appointment with your doctor and ask for help.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    The day you start thinking that a Mussolini, Hitler or a Franco is a " viable alternative " is the day you make an appointment with your doctor and ask for help.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Yes, to the hundreds of thousands times yes. Never invite a fascist to dinner, or to be head of state. They make lousy guests and leaders...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    The day you start thinking that a Mussolini, Hitler or a Franco is a " viable alternative " is the day you make an appointment with your doctor and ask for help.

    Regards Tyrone.
    How do you know what they are until its too late please ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronan View Post
    How do you know what they are until its too late please ?
    Pay the least little bit of attention to their history? And what they say? It's not that hard...

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    For information, in 2014 Ireland became a net contributor to the EU budget for the first time in 41 years of membership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    What should have happened when the chaos and mess became obvious was to have held another vote to see if it was still something the majority wanted. Even a parliamentary "where do you stand?" would have given voters a good idea as to who was screwing who. I don't really see any other option than a new vote as it isn't possible to be partly pregnant. You either are or you aren't.

    As a EU member the UK could have dragged its feet as some countries (Hungary and Poland and maybe Italy) are doing and made life very difficult for the bureaucrats. For better or worse what's needed is another Thatcher
    Just keep voting until they get the answer wanted.

    Is that the way we elect our representative government?

    Why, NO!

    Speak your mind. VOTE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Pay the least little bit of attention to their history? And what they say? It's not that hard...
    Not that hard, but it wants SOME actual effort, even so.

    And few have ever even once BOTHERED to assess Mussolini, far the more "open book" than Weird Adolph ever was or ever will be.

    Didja know..

    He was ALL of an "avoider", a deserter AND a genuine War hero, War One, as a non-com? For-real, not faked, nor "back dated" for political advantage? Strange man. Strange mix!

    That he was in power for YEARS (1922..) before anyone had ever even heard Weird Adolph's name?

    That he was largely the creation of his Venetian "lapsed-Jewish" mistress.. the one with the brains, not the one with the younger c**t that was hanged beside him?

    Or that she survived him and retired to the Americas for some years after the war, finally returning to Italy, a journalist, again?

    That he was poised to bring Italy into the war on the side of FRANCE, rather than Germany?

    That he wasn't done-in directly by the Allies. He was simply FIRED from his job?
    Only later was he lynched by other Italians.

    We gang too soon lazy und too late rememberisch.

    There are PLENTY of parallels with those pre-WWII players and their power structures afoot today.

    The more things change...

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    Seeing as 'ol draft-dodging Drumpf was never a war hero, was a repeated failure as a businessman (although still surviving due to piles of cash and connections, while he drove contractors who worked with him under), and brains? Did he lean on Stormy for those? He should have...

    I guess I'll have to make the connection with Mussy via the pomposity and vainglory of his later years. Perhaps I am being unfair to Il Duce, he did make the trains run on time (before the tracks got bombed).

    With Trump, anyone with more than a single neuron knew what we'd be getting. And we did. Without even a speck of lube.


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