Blue collar, white collar.. my observations in the US and what about other cultures? - Page 5
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  1. #81
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    I have only worked for two mid sized corporations,one a retailer and the currant one a paper converter.Both are solely owned and do not have the upper echelon of executives with "star quality pay" like all the stock traded companies seem to have.Those execs seem to be more interested in their "golden parachutes" then the health of their companies.

    The former company was starting to recruit only degreed personnel for middle management when I left.My currant employer has mostly trades personnel brought up to middle management.

    Some of the degreed people at my former job had that "class mentality" towards the clerks and stock workers.Not so where I work now. The owner has fired managers that talked down to floor workers.
    The owner just turned 96 and whenever he is in the plant he makes his rounds and most people address him by his first name.He is a vanishing breed.

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    Well,Tyrone- I hope the MD,s wife got paint all over her p..y Lotus Elan!

  3. #83
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    Tyrone,The plant I work in has only about 200 people.

    Every so often the plant manager and all the supervisors do a cook out and serve all the rest of the employees.
    I guess the managers at your previous company would think that to be totally insane.

    Sometimes they just have some food trucks come at company expense.

    Mostly for so many days without an accident.

    There is a dining area at one end for floor workers, office personnel have an upstairs break room and maint shop has one on a second floor mezzanine.Not to segregate anyone just for logistics mostly.

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    This has been quite interesting. So it appears that things are just about the same all over the planet.

    Kepler has discovered ~2500 planets. We should assume things to be the same on them too.

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    No matter white-collar or blue-collar workers, they need to learn new knowledge and technology constantly, so that they can continue to develop together with society, or they may be eliminated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange View Post
    No matter white-collar or blue-collar workers, they need to learn new knowledge and technology constantly, so that they can continue to develop together with society, or they may be eliminated.
    Incoherent drivel by a SPAMMER.

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  9. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by laminar-flow View Post

    So my question is, in other countries do machinist and mechanics have a similar lack of respect that I have noticed in the US?
    Depends. In many countries being a skilled tradesman is looked upon the same as anything else. Not necessarily better or worse. Here in the US, trades were looked down upon for many years starting in the (my opinion) 1980s. When I was a youngster, I wanted to be like my dad. He owned a shop. He was a machinist. He made a lot. He did well. He was the boss. I wanted to be like that. When I was a senior in high school, all I ever heard was college..college..OH MY GOD YOU HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE! LOL! Well, I did, but I became a machinist - like dad. And I eventually started my own shop. Like dad.

    Many of the relatives and neighbors kinda wrinkled their noses and said stuff like "eww..you get DIRTY." My reply was, and still is, "that's why they make soap and water." So, I'm a college degree holding machine shop owner. I wouldn't trade for anything.

    Yeah, there were dark days, the 90s were the WORST. But, it came back. When it did, I was ready.

    Many folk look down at this, because of the "TV image" - where everybody is some high flying executive in an office making deals and playing golf with clients. The reality is that most "white collar" jobs are cubicle dwelling clerical jobs that really don't need a degree, yet the HR department says so. Fine. I got sick of working for others. I turn my own key, my own shop. I answer to no one. Just like dad.

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    Yea, dirty job being a machinist. I used to live in a fancy subdivision that had big houses and smaller ones, (mine). One day I was talking to a rich neighbor down the street in one of the big houses and he asked me what I did for a living and when I told him I had a small machine shop I could tell from the look that my job was a "dirty blue collar profession". I asked him what he did and he said he was an oral surgeon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laminar-flow View Post
    Yea, dirty job being a machinist. I used to live in a fancy subdivision that had big houses and smaller ones, (mine). One day I was talking to a rich neighbor down the street in one of the big houses and he asked me what I did for a living and when I told him I had a small machine shop I could tell from the look that my job was a "dirty blue collar profession". I asked him what he did and he said he was an oral surgeon.
    He probably couldn't fix a light bulb. You were "dirty" but he works with spit all day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laminar-flow View Post
    Yea, dirty job being a machinist. I used to live in a fancy subdivision that had big houses and smaller ones, (mine). One day I was talking to a rich neighbor down the street in one of the big houses and he asked me what I did for a living and when I told him I had a small machine shop I could tell from the look that my job was a "dirty blue collar profession". I asked him what he did and he said he was an oral surgeon.
    Having worked as both a machinist and a respiratory therapist (hence the moniker)I can tell you there's good and bad in both worlds. The good ones respect and appreciate what we can do, and you work around the rest. As for the collar, I don't have one- it fell off when the shirt wore.

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    Changed a lot in Oz in the last 20 years.....now its all about youth and money....the "young tradie" is the top of the heap,generally working for a big plumbing ,electrical ,air conditioning,type contractor .....where the worker must be licensed ,and the houseowner isnt allowed ,and heavily sanctioned for doing their own work....These are the guys you typically see on telly for charging a 90yr old $1500 for replacing a dripping tap washer....All these service occupations completely protected by a zillion rules ,regulations and laws....this is Oz now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machinistrrt View Post
    Having worked as both a machinist and a respiratory therapist (hence the moniker)I can tell you there's good and bad in both worlds. The good ones respect and appreciate what we can do, and you work around the rest. As for the collar, I don't have one- it fell off when the shirt wore.
    I hear you. Went through a PhD and MD program. In the end, I still...wanted to be like my dad. And I did it.

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    ",and the houseowner isnt allowed ,and heavily sanctioned for doing their own work"

    -A little disappointed to hear that Oz has changed so very much. I would imagine this is the state of affairs in relatively exclusive areas, HOA controlled areas here, but how widespread is this for Oz?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Changed a lot in Oz in the last 20 years.....now its all about youth and money....the "young tradie" is the top of the heap,generally working for a big plumbing ,electrical ,air conditioning,type contractor .....where the worker must be licensed ,and the houseowner isnt allowed ,and heavily sanctioned for doing their own work....These are the guys you typically see on telly for charging a 90yr old $1500 for replacing a dripping tap washer....All these service occupations completely protected by a zillion rules ,regulations and laws....this is Oz now.
    If this is true, then there are no "house owners", only "house leasers" who have to rely on others, by law, to upkeep the government's house.

    How sad.

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    So there's another weird thing in the US, that I've seen described this way.
    On the east coast (say, NYC) the guy in the fancy suit is quite likely the most powerful (richest, highest management, owner, whatever) in the room.
    On the west coast, it can easily be reversed.

    Sometimes there are odd responses in retail conditions. Walk into a chevy dealer, no amount of expressing interest will get me a test drive in a 'vette. Walk into the Porsche dealer and they gave me the keys..... (Maybe bums don't show up there and they do at the Chevy dealer?)

    But I'm from the PNW software world, which, like Silicon Valley (and maybe more so) disordered a lot of things. The signs of status were really very very different than what most of you are talking about.

    Of course I grew up in Iowa and knew full well that successful farmers might dress rough, sometimes (but not always) talked rough, but could be Very Serious Business People.

    But there are weird status signs everywhere in human society....

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  23. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasJRizzo View Post
    He probably couldn't fix a light bulb. You were "dirty" but he works with spit all day.
    I always ask a surgeon what his hobbies are; if it's wine-tasting, stamp-collecting, opera, golfing, or similar, I pass. If it's woodworking, mechanics, machining, or similar, OK. Also, there are lots of folks who might look "rich" but are in debt up to their eyeballs (tall hat, no cattle).

    When I first started working at IBM in the early 80's while going to collitch, the big machine-shop was right down the hall. Knowing I didn't know much, whenever I had a design project, I would trek down there, often with a box of donuts, to get the machinists to critique my designs; worked there for 16 years and probably learned as more, in total, from the "blue collar" workers in the shop as any other aspect. Also, many of the knowitall degreed folks (particularly prevalent in the PhD's), treated the machinists like the hired help. And it was amusing to watch, because they would encourage their know-it-all attitude and let them go ahead and dig their graves with their bad designs and ideas. I had such a good rapport with them for all those years, that I could get whole projects done with no purchase reqs (they had an internal cost-center system), whereas the snooty engineers and managers had to get a purchase req for them to drill a hole... I could write a whole special-edition Dilbert book on the things I've seen.

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    Yes gas fitting which is low pressure ....extremely low, general plumbing work, electrical all require a ticketed worker and there are permits required depending on type of work as well which you have to pay for at the local council.
    Plus insurance on other types of work to a set limit which i think if i recall properly was $20 million damages if needed.
    Lot of rules..

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  26. #98
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    To all machinists, trades and others who get the job done..
    February 11th is white shirt day so put on your white tee-shirt or other and celebrate those do the actual work making parts.
    Bob

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  28. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by car2 View Post
    Knowing I didn't know much, whenever I had a design project, I would trek down there, often with a box of donuts,.
    What kinda donuts we talking here ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    What kinda donuts we talking here ?
    That is funny, I would get flack if a proper "assortment" was not offered; for projects requiring more extensive bribes, bad coffee from those coffee-vending machines was sometimes also required. Back then, there was a Krispy Creme on the way to work...junkfood always seems to be a cheap bribe, just look at how often it's used to get people into interminable inane meetings. Cheers


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