Boeing 737 Max - Page 26
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 26 of 38 FirstFirst ... 16242526272836 ... LastLast
Results 501 to 520 of 756

Thread: Boeing 737 Max

  1. #501
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    435
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    114
    Likes (Received)
    164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Or China. I've flown around a fair amount domestically and always been impressed with the professionalism of their crews. Not with China Eastern's ability to keep to a schedule and their ticketing crew should be strangled but once in the plane, plenty good. Even on the Tupolevs and the Airbusses that wag their tail (it's cute in a puppy. Less so in an airplane) ... the passengers are the biggest danger in China. Especially the north
    Your input is appreciated, thanks for giving us a closer look at international travel.

  2. #502
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,537
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3019
    Likes (Received)
    470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    What issue? The issue that the planes keep crashing, or thie issue that the company has a global PR nightmare. FIrst, maybe.
    Second, more problematic.
    So you wait for all the info to come in? That is good.

  3. #503
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,537
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3019
    Likes (Received)
    470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    Jim,
    Are you saying that the 737 MAX is flawed? We'll discuss this in a few weeks.
    Jim only has one aim and that is to blame and also to say the crash was intentional negligence on the part of Boeing. As facts come in he is clinging onto unproven information since the investigation is ongoing. He is inpatient and wants to step in and accuse without all the facts in. He sensationalizes this whole thing all along betting he will be right in the end. He is out of line.

  4. Likes adh2000 liked this post
  5. #504
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Utah
    Posts
    456
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1111
    Likes (Received)
    179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Hi Jim,
    Going a little off-topic here, but there were five main computers on the Shuttles, four working together, one running a backup system:

    IBM System/4 Pi - Wikipedia

    My dad's brother was one of the engineers who worked on that system.
    Years ago, when I was a member of the ACM (Association for Computing Machinery), I read in the forum "Risks to the Public in Computers and Related Systems," a very interesting article about three spacecraft flight control computers "voting."

    The software for two computers was designed by one team and was the same, but the third computer had software designed by an independent team who were not allowed to have any contact with the other team. I believe they even used a different programming language.

    Despite these precautions, the two teams managed to introduce the very same bug.

  6. #505
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,191
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    403
    Likes (Received)
    1605

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    This plane has been cycled at least thirty times per day; without incident.. for over one year.


    My main question to ask.. why did it not crash before?
    Out of 57,000 flights of the MAX in North America, no incidents of MCAS misbehaving. There are only 24 total ASRS (NASA) reports that are MAX specific.

    There were 2 incidents of an uncommanded pitch down, both happened under A/P and both cases they turned off the A/P and the flights continued normally. (which is why disengaging A/P is the first step in the runaway stab QRH) The pilots reporting the incidents said they were not sure if it was something they did, they were new to the plane. Neither one was due to MCAS.

    Boeing has already been tried and convicted in the press, and they will take all the blame. They won't try to pass the buck. They have the modification of the software ready, I think the FAA is testing it now.

    Incidentally, the KC-46A (the 767 tanker) also has MCAS, but it is 2 channel, and the column cutouts were not bypassed. Had Boeing used that same system on the MAX, I think this conversation might not be taking place.

    When it's all said and done, the plane needs to be flyable by the average pilot, meaning one that may not be as well trained or experienced as pilots in North America or Europe. These crashes show that is not the case.

    More emphasis needs to be put on the QRH- especially wrt unreliable airspeed. Good air data is critical to the automation, no matter the plane. The manufacturers are pretty smart, and do their best to keep you alive. We do not want commercial pilots becoming test pilots with passengers aboard- they need to follow the book to the letter.

  7. #506
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    714
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    112
    Likes (Received)
    255

    Default

    Is it a coincidence they’re now talking about applying $11billion in Airbus retaliatory tariffs on the EU after all the 737 Max orders have been canceled? The Gov. needs to step out of they way on this one and not get involved. “IF” Boeing is responsible, let them and the shareholders figure out a way to pay for it.

  8. Likes JoeE. liked this post
  9. #507
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    2,655
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1161
    Likes (Received)
    819

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post

    When it's all said and done, the plane needs to be flyable by the average pilot...
    You're 100% right in what you say.
    But if only we had Chuck Yeager or the likes up front when we get onboard!

  10. #508
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    801
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    921
    Likes (Received)
    558

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    You're 100% right in what you say.
    But if only we had Chuck Yeager or the likes up front when we get onboard!
    And it helps to have the ability to make a determination. I'm not rated but have worked in/around aviation. My one brother in law - who was a B-52 driver - always makes the comment that you can survive one idiot in the cockpit, but not 2. I personally experienced that in a Huey years ago - to this day I'm convinced we would not have made it except for my buddy sitting next to me, who was a Huey/Snake driver - unhooked, went up and hit the PIC so hard in the flight helmet his head bounced off the side of the door. Woke him up to the problem at hand.

    I also had an uncle with I don't know how many thousand hours - survived to make it from early 43 to the end of the war in Europe but had to bail out 3 times. Kept flying into the 70s. I once - when I had no experience - commented to him that he must never worry about flying. His response was that quite the opposite - if he could spend 3 minutes watching a crew he would decide to fly with them or not. If OK he was totally relaxed, could sleep, etc. If not he would walk away. But not knowing was not comfortable for him. later in life I understood completely.

    Couple complex system failure theory and 'average aircrew ability' you end up with a system that actually works surprisingly well. But I still would rather know a bit about both the flight and ground crew.

    Dale

  11. Likes barbter liked this post
  12. #509
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Ontario
    Posts
    951
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    177
    Likes (Received)
    306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    When it's all said and done, the plane needs to be flyable by the average pilot, meaning one that may not be as well trained or experienced as pilots in North America or Europe.
    As I said before, when things go off the rails you want good drivers.

    My cousin worked and flew a bunch out of Jakarta, I was concerned for him...

  13. #510
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    St Louis
    Posts
    17,712
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1741
    Likes (Received)
    2932

    Default

    Something occurred to me.... assuming I have good info on the way things work in the aircraft.....

    I see the case if runaway trim as very different from the MCAS issue. So, why do they have the same solution?

    In the case of the MCAS, the problem is that the MCAS is feeding bad info into a perfectly good working electric trim system. So why does the procedure for MCAS problem cut off the electric trim, as it is my understanding that it does?

    Cutting off the electric trim is correct if the trim system is the problem. That is fine. But not so fine if the problem is not in the trim itself, but in a bad input to the trim system.

    The correct response would seem to be to shut off the bad input to the trim system, but if I understand the system correctly, that is not an option.

    When already too low over terrain, relying on the slow manual trim seems to be the wrong thing to do. The problem is not in the actual trim system, so why shut it off?

    If the electric trim were left operational, the recovery might be much faster when that may be needed, especially if the true problem was not immediately identified, and a good deal of nose down was trimmed in automatically before the system was shut off. You;d want to be able to correct that rapidly and with the least manual labor if you are too low and having trouble holding the controls against the trim.

    I see that as a bad design mistake that Boeing clearly owns.

  14. #511
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    24,052
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    4346

    Default

    [QUOTE=Spinit;3341756]Jim only has one aim and that is to blame and also to say the crash was intentional negligence on the part of Boeing.

    That's a lie. You have not been reading my comments. Go back and see where I said "intentional negligence."

  15. #512
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    24,052
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    4346

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobby Shop View Post
    Is it a coincidence they’re now talking about applying $11billion in Airbus retaliatory tariffs on the EU after all the 737 Max orders have been canceled? The Gov. needs to step out of they way on this one and not get involved. “IF” Boeing is responsible, let them and the shareholders figure out a way to pay for it.
    Yep, that is the exact definition of free market economy at work. Government can step in and subvert that if they want.

  16. #513
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,537
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3019
    Likes (Received)
    470

    Default

    [QUOTE=jim rozen;3343502]
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Jim only has one aim and that is to blame and also to say the crash was intentional negligence on the part of Boeing.

    That's a lie. You have not been reading my comments. Go back and see where I said "intentional negligence."
    I think you might be correct technically yet you are cutting hairs. You were more focused on criminal negligence being the case. If anyone wishes to understand your context to the discussion they can check it. Then they can maybe understand your points.

  17. #514
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    1,444
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    You're 100% right in what you say.
    But if only we had Chuck Yeager or the likes up front when we get onboard!
    If you've read his biography, you know that he may have partied hard but he also spent weeks with the docs for every plane he flew, going through all the systems until he understood them thoroughly.

    That's why he is alive and a bunch of pilots who did not know even the basics about their planes are dead.

  18. Likes barbter, adama liked this post
  19. #515
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    1,467
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    916
    Likes (Received)
    844

    Default

    Something for some of you delusional Boeing apologists

    AA grounds their 737MAX's to mid August

    American Airlines To Keep Boeing 737 MAX Planes Grounded Until Mid-August | HuffPost

    and

    Boeing shareholders sue over 737 MAX crashes, disclosures - Reuters

    (Reuters) - Boeing Co’s legal troubles grew on Tuesday as a new lawsuit accused the company of defrauding shareholders by concealing safety deficiencies in its 737 MAX planes before two fatal crashes led to their worldwide grounding.

    FILE PHOTO: The company logo for Boeing is displayed on a screen on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) in New York, U.S., March 11, 2019. REUTERS/Brendan McDermid/File Photo
    The proposed class action filed in Chicago federal court seeks damages for alleged securities fraud violations, after Boeing’s market value tumbled by $34 billion within two weeks of the March 10 crash of an Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX.

    Chief Executive Dennis Muilenburg and Chief Financial Officer Gregory Smith were also named as defendants.

    Boeing spokesman Charles Bickers had no immediate comment.

    According to the complaint, Boeing “effectively put profitability and growth ahead of airplane safety and honesty” by rushing the 737 MAX to market to compete with Airbus SE, while leaving out “extra” or “optional” features designed to prevent the Ethiopian Airlines and Lion Air crashes.

    It also said Boeing’s statements about its growth prospects and the 737 MAX were undermined by its alleged conflict of interest from retaining broad authority from federal regulators to assess the plane’s safety.

    Richard Seeks, the lead plaintiff, said Boeing’s compromises began to emerge after the Ethiopian Airlines crash killed all 157 onboard, five months after the Lion Air crash killed 189.

    Seeks said he bought 300 Boeing shares in early March, and sold them at a loss within the last two weeks. The lawsuit seeks damages for Boeing stock investors from Jan. 8 to March 21.

    Shareholders often file lawsuits accusing companies of securities fraud for concealing material negative information that causes the stock price to decline upon becoming public.

    Chicago-based Boeing faces many other lawsuits over the crashes, including by victims’ families and by participants in its employee retirement plans.

    The case is Seeks v Boeing Co et al, U.S. District Court, Northern District of Illinois, No. 19-02394.

  20. #516
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland- USA
    Posts
    2,998
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1764
    Likes (Received)
    1989

    Default

    Might not indicate too much.
    “I lost money in the markets let’s sue someone”,
    Is as common as the rain...

  21. Likes Mark Rand, Spinit liked this post
  22. #517
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    7,910
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1102
    Likes (Received)
    4904

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Might not indicate too much.
    “I lost money in the markets let’s sue someone”,
    Is as common as the rain...
    Looks to me like he's setting himself up as plaintiff, why buy them at that time and sell them again so quickly ?

    Regards Tyrone.

  23. #518
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,212
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5694

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    Looks to me like he's setting himself up as plaintiff, why buy them at that time and sell them again so quickly ?

    Regards Tyrone.
    Concealing or lying about what’s going on inside a company is fraud.

  24. #519
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    1,444
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    672

    Default

    Is Michael Avenatti handling this case ?

  25. #520
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,212
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5694

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Is Michael Avenatti handling this case ?
    I think he’s a little busy right now.
    Christ what an asshole.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •