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Thread: Boeing 737 Max

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Any chance you know for a fact a single country or airline where that is the case? If nothing else then I'll know where and who to avoid!

    I suspect, unless you know differently, that it's an "urban myth". What airline is going to run that risk is my line of thinking. If something like that could be proven then management, as well as the pilot (assuming survival) would be looking at very lengthy jail sentences.

    In fact in some countries that kind of thing could easily give the death penalty.

    Think about what happened to the company and captain that crashed his ship in Italy.

    Costa Concordia disaster - Wikipedia

    As in any profession there are varying levels of competency and experience.

    Not only do third world airlines tend to be at the bottom of that list so are the lowest of the discount airlines.

    And pilots have been jailed for causing a crash, again mostly in third world countries.

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    I think it was just last year that the EU lifted the ban on Indonesian airlines flying in Europe.

    They had lifted it for Garuda a few years prior.

    Mexico lost an Interior Minister a few years ago when the Lear Jet he was on crashed in Mexico City. The pilot was flying on forged documents- he wasn't even a real pilot.

    Modern planes fly on automation almost entirely. Even a pilot with several thousand hours, only a tiny fraction are hand flying, and that's mostly takeoff rolls.

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    Gordon, so professional standards don't vary world wide (in any field), everyone gets the latest training instantly and if you are "connected"* that has no bearing on if you get the position over a more competent candidate?

    After thinking about it for a moment I see your point, I do know for a fact that the Prince of Wales* got his military rank/pilot training as he was the best possible candidate.

    Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Keeley View Post
    As in any profession there are varying levels of competency and experience.

    Not only do third world airlines tend to be at the bottom of that list so are the lowest of the discount airlines.

    And pilots have been jailed for causing a crash, again mostly in third world countries.
    It was something like the following I was looking for when I asked my question.

    The World's 5 Most Dangerous Airlines - TravelAwaits.com

    Very unlikely I'd ever be flying with any of them.

    Has anyone first hand experience with a bad airline?

    Safest airlines that have never had a plane crash
    FINNAIR.
    HAWAIIAN AIRLINES.
    JETBLUE.
    QANTAS.
    QATAR AIRWAYS.
    RYANAIR.
    SOUTHWEST AIRLINES.
    VIRGIN ATLANTIC.

    Hmmm the two I use most for long distance are Lufthansa and KLM. Ryanair for short distances.

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    If great Britian gets out of brixet then nepotiosm will come back strong. I was hoping to apply to be their next king when queen Elizabeth dies. I bet now it will go to her son just because he is her son.
    Bil lD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    If great Britian gets out of brixet then nepotiosm will come back strong. I was hoping to apply to be their next king when queen Elizabeth dies. I bet now it will go to her son just because he is her son.
    Bil lD
    Maybe a surprise to you but that's how the "system" works. The eldest son (or daughter) inherits. I'm trying to imagine who you'd apply to for the job

    You do know that by law the Queen has no opinion or influence on politics? I'm sure she does but keeps it to herself.

    How Europe's royal families are all related, share single ancestor - INSIDER

    Nothing to do with "manufacturing" but maybe "production"?

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    I thought that the Eu had laws about fair hiring practices so the best qualified candidates get the job. Don't you have to be white to become a royal? sounds like racisim to me.
    Unlike Trump hiring unqualified relatives to do important work who can not even get security clearances.
    Bill D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    I thought that the Eu had laws about fair hiring practices so the best qualified candidates get the job. Don't you have to be white to become a royal? sounds like racisim to me.
    Unlike Trump hiring unqualified relatives to do important work who can not even get security clearances.
    Bill D.

    And the thread discussing the grounding of the Boeing 737 Max finally turns to Trump bashing, surprised it lasted 31 pages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    Unlike Trump hiring unqualified relatives to do important work who can not even get security clearances.
    Bill D.
    They do have security clearances, not thru the proper channels, nonetheless they still have clearances

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    Don't you have to be white to become a royal?
    Bill D.
    No! LOL

    I also think you might be overlooking many countries outside Europe have a king or queen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Would any airline, even the worst, entrust a new plane in the hands of an incompetent pilot?
    Judging by the evidence, apparently yes. Case in point, Asiana with a new Boeing (I think it was a 777 but not sure) with a first officer, second officer and instructor pilot in the cockpit put the plane down a quarter mile before the runway started, on a clear day with 25 mile visibility, no wind, no fog, no rain, no clouds, no earthquakes, what more could they ask for ? Jesus standing at the end of the runway giving arm signals ?

    Destroyed the aircraft and killed several people.

    The problem seems to lie in the definition of "competent". Apparently some airlines think being able to find North on the map is competent. I prefer a situation where the pilot can put the plane on the runway, then taxi to the gate without hitting anything.

    Different opinions ...

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    "The problem seems to lie in the definition of "competent".

    Ah, that's dead easy. They just placard the instument panel in the aircraft with a plate with the
    words:

    "DO NOT CRASH THIS PLANE"

    And anyone who does, the airline can declare the pilots disregarded written instructions and
    are therefore incompetent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Preposterous trolling there. You are kind of -a little bit worry wart a negative one. You are not very solutions oriented with this problem. Boeing and the powers that be are much more proactive while you while waiting for the results of inquiries just pile on endless babble.

    I find you hysterical.
    Here you go, another problem you need to try and solve here.

    Boeing Reports Zero New Plane Orders For Second Straight Month | HuffPost

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Boeing Reports Zero New Plane Orders For Second Straight Month
    First off, they have several hundred planes on order.

    Second, have you ever worked in a shop ? Depending on your business, getting no new orders in a month is not unusual.

    Third, this is Huffpost. "The sky is falling ! The sky is falling !"

    In other words, bfd.

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    This is from the article:
    "According to CNN, Boeing has back orders for about 5,000 planes and many of its customers don’t need additional jets. Also, the company is likely waiting for the Paris Air Show next week to announce new orders."

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    F
    In other words, bfd.
    Dern straight there. Mr. MAX is flying all over the place right now.
    Oh. Ooops. Still grounded. Guess the moderator's letter never got the FAA.
    What me worry?

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    Yes I think he is admitting a mistake. I think the government investigation is ongoing though and he seems to be throwing in there that in the arrangement of certification that Boeing should have communicated better. I would still trust the actual results of the investigation because knowing exactly what this means requires the full picture.

    I do think selling the warning light as a more expensive option was a mistake. The reason is that I have always said it is better in shop processes, fixturing, and company policy that they should be highly functional, simple, and very importantly idiot proof. Not that everyone is a idiot of course.

    More will come out and perhaps this is to say something to bolster the reputation of the company in some way. Likely we will learn of things in certification that we’re done which puts things on the positive side.

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    I would think that since this announcement is on the eve of the paris air show, he (boeing) is trying to admit to what everyone else already knows, boeing F'd up. The company might not loose any more credibility if they own up, and maybe some sales will happen at paris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Yes I think he is admitting a mistake. I think the government investigation is ongoing though and he seems to be throwing in there that in the arrangement of certification that Boeing should have communicated better. I would still trust the actual results of the investigation because knowing exactly what this means requires the full picture.

    I do think selling the warning light as a more expensive option was a mistake. The reason is that I have always said it is better in shop processes, fixturing, and company policy that they should be highly functional, simple, and very importantly idiot proof. Not that everyone is a idiot of course.

    More will come out and perhaps this is to say something to bolster the reputation of the company in some way. Likely we will learn of things in certification that we’re done which puts things on the positive side.
    I once worked for a Managing Director ( President of the company in the USA I think ) who was at least one sandwich short of a picnic. Having said that not everything that came out of his mouth was rubbish.

    His favourite saying was " Make It Idiot Proof ". I remember him coming to inspect a newly finished machine that was due to be shipped abroad inside a day or two. All went well until he came to the control panel. It had a series of 3 small lever switches down the centre of the panel.

    He grabbed a hammer from an adjacent work bench and smashed all 3 switches ! Turning to the draughtsman, who was shaking in his shoes by this point, he said " Buy the three biggest, strongest switches you can find and fit them - make it idiot proof I said ! " With that he threw the hammer down the shop.

    On the original theme there was an article in my paper over here the other day. There have been several incidences of engine fire extinguisher switches failing on the " Dreamliner ". In response to this an edict has been issued requiring all operators to test these switches every 28 days.

    Regards Tyrone.


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