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  1. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post

    On the original theme there was an article in my paper over here the other day. There have been several incidences of engine fire extinguisher switches failing on the " Dreamliner ". In response to this an edict has been issued requiring all operators to test these switches every 28 days.

    Regards Tyrone.
    I read a bit about this the other day too.
    Shocking.
    Especially when you have an inherent design reliant upon unstable batteries and to make them *safe to fly* you have a titanium pipe to vent any possible flames out the side of the fuselage!
    Oh I hate flying...

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I read a bit about this the other day too.
    Shocking.
    Especially when you have an inherent design reliant upon unstable batteries and to make them *safe to fly* you have a titanium pipe to vent any possible flames out the side of the fuselage!
    Oh I hate flying...
    Me too, I'm never as happy as when I'm walking out through the exit and down the steps onto the ground.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    I read a bit about this the other day too.
    Shocking.
    Especially when you have an inherent design reliant upon unstable batteries and to make them *safe to fly* you have a titanium pipe to vent any possible flames out the side of the fuselage!
    Oh I hate flying...
    At least we agree on something I don't like flying either but I don't have much choice as many of my destinations are far away. The Boeing 747 was my favourite until Airbus 380 came along.

    YouTube

    YouTube

    My reason for my preference? The a380 just feels more spacious and comfortable but I'm OK with either.

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  6. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Wow. What a drama nut. I have seen when a boss got mad in a meeting and threw a scrap part flying.
    Spinit - and Tyrone -

    But at times may be useful to be a 'drama nut'. Before my time (story was it was late 40s or early 50s). I hired into IBM in 1974 in Poukeepsie, NY. Lore was that one day back in time Watson Sr. was visiting the plant. As he went down the line he stopped to talk to a woman working at a bench. Asked her about working conditions, etc. Commented to her that the windows were filthy and would not more light help her? She said it would help. He asked if the windows ever got cleaned from the outside (3 story building). She said no. Watson asked is he could borrow her hammer - she handed it to him. He winged it through the window and said maybe with new glass it would be cleaner. Of course the every manager in the chain from the plant manager on down was standing there. Supposedly before Watson left that day there were people at work washing the windows. People on the line loved it - plant manager not so much.

    As my one mentor told me long ago - as a leader don't ever lose your temper - BUT if you can put on a good act it can be useful as long as rarely used. As far as I'm concerned he was 100% accurate. One of his other adages was be careful on how many times you ever 'demand' something. His take was you had a limited lifetime use of such, so only use when absolutely necessary.

    But no way do bullies and real drama nuts ever have anyone following them when they really need it - people have to know you actually give a damn.

    Dale

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    Guess you can sue your neighbor if it rains tomorrow..Those guys did not suffer loss except if they could not sleep worrying about it.
    I think this country is going sue crazy

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    Guess you can sue your neighbor if it rains tomorrow..Those guys did not suffer loss except if they could not sleep worrying about it.
    I think this country is going sue crazy
    This latest lawsuit filed against Boeing marks the first class action lodged by pilots qualified to fly the 737 MAX series, who have alleged that Boeing's decisions have caused them to suffer from monetary loss and mental distress since the jet's suspension

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    Quote Originally Posted by duckfarmer27 View Post
    Spinit - and Tyrone -

    But at times may be useful to be a 'drama nut'. Before my time (story was it was late 40s or early 50s). I hired into IBM in 1974 in Poukeepsie, NY. Lore was that one day back in time Watson Sr. was visiting the plant. As he went down the line he stopped to talk to a woman working at a bench. Asked her about working conditions, etc. Commented to her that the windows were filthy and would not more light help her? She said it would help. He asked if the windows ever got cleaned from the outside (3 story building). She said no. Watson asked is he could borrow her hammer - she handed it to him. He winged it through the window and said maybe with new glass it would be cleaner. Of course the every manager in the chain from the plant manager on down was standing there. Supposedly before Watson left that day there were people at work washing the windows. People on the line loved it - plant manager not so much.

    As my one mentor told me long ago - as a leader don't ever lose your temper - BUT if you can put on a good act it can be useful as long as rarely used. As far as I'm concerned he was 100% accurate. One of his other adages was be careful on how many times you ever 'demand' something. His take was you had a limited lifetime use of such, so only use when absolutely necessary.

    But no way do bullies and real drama nuts ever have anyone following them when they really need it - people have to know you actually give a damn.

    Dale
    A interesting story. Seems like the fellow did not lose his temper though. The guy with the hammer may not have come across mad either.

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    I believe BA have placed an order for 200 of the 737 Max. My paper thinks the price may have contained a good discount for BA though.

    Regards Tyrone

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    Quote Originally Posted by duckfarmer27 View Post
    Spinit - and Tyrone -

    But at times may be useful to be a 'drama nut'. Before my time (story was it was late 40s or early 50s). I hired into IBM in 1974 in Poukeepsie, NY. Lore was that one day back in time Watson Sr. was visiting the plant. As he went down the line he stopped to talk to a woman working at a bench. Asked her about working conditions, etc. Commented to her that the windows were filthy and would not more light help her? She said it would help. He asked if the windows ever got cleaned from the outside (3 story building). She said no. Watson asked is he could borrow her hammer - she handed it to him. He winged it through the window and said maybe with new glass it would be cleaner. Of course the every manager in the chain from the plant manager on down was standing there. Supposedly before Watson left that day there were people at work washing the windows. People on the line loved it - plant manager not so much.

    As my one mentor told me long ago - as a leader don't ever lose your temper - BUT if you can put on a good act it can be useful as long as rarely used. As far as I'm concerned he was 100% accurate. One of his other adages was be careful on how many times you ever 'demand' something. His take was you had a limited lifetime use of such, so only use when absolutely necessary.

    But no way do bullies and real drama nuts ever have anyone following them when they really need it - people have to know you actually give a damn.

    Dale
    This guy was fond of histrionics.

    We were rebuilding a rubber mill with strict instructions to keep the costs down. Normally the grease piping was done in " Bundy " tubing, a sort of thin steel pipe. To keep to the spec this mill was tubed up in plastic tubing.

    He walked into the shop one day just as the mill was being painted ready to be shipped. He took one look at the plastic piping and said to my mate - " Can I borrow your hammer " . My pal handed him my hammer, he was smarter than me.

    The MD went over to the mill and hammered the plastic pipes clean in half !
    Again he threw the hammer twenty yards down the shop and said " Do the bloody job properly " before stomping off down the shop.

    The funniest story I heard about him was when he was at a trade fair in Germany, somewhere like Frankfurt. In the evening he'd taken a small group of potential customers into town for a drink. They were wandering from bar to bar when he heard in the distance the sound of a jazz band playing.

    Our guy loved jazz so they set off to find the venue. When they got to the source of the music it was a private party being held by " Werner Pfleiderer" a German competitor or ours.

    So he goes up to the door of the hotel and more or less demanded to be let in. The receptionist on the door said " I'm very sorry sir but if you aren't on the guest list you can't come in ! "

    The MD gives it the big I am, the " Do you know who I am ? " line but they still won't let him in. They've all had a drink so a bit of pushing to get in starts that leads to a scuffle that quickly gets out of hand. All of a sudden a German guy comes over and lets him have a right hander on the chin, that puts him flat on his backside !

    With that wiser councils among the guests pick him up and and our MD and party beat a retreat to another bar.

    Next morning our guy gets to the trade fair early in the morning and marches up to " Werner Pfliederer's " stand. He says to one of the salesman " I was seriously assaulted by one of your people last night and I demand to see your Managing Director, it was totally unprovoked attack and I want an apology ! "

    The salesman says " I'm sorry to hear that sir, just wait here and I'll go and get him".

    When the German MD walks up it dawns on our guy that the German MD is the guy who sparked him out the previous evening. With a bright red face he turned on his heel and slunk away.

    Regards Tyrone.

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  14. #631
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    United extends ban on Boeing 737 Max after regulator finds new problem | Business | The Guardian

    United Airlines has become the latest carrier to extend its ban on using the Boeing 737 Max after the US aviation regulator said it had identified a new potential risk with the plane.

    The risk was discovered during a simulator test last week but it was not yet clear if the issue can be addressed with a software upgrade or will require a more complex hardware fix, sources told Reuters.

    Two people briefed on the matter told Reuters that an FAA test pilot during a simulator test last week was running scenarios seeking to intentionally activate the MCAS stall-prevention system. During one activation it took an extended period to recover the stabilizer trim system that is used to control the aircraft, the people said.

    “On the most recent issue, the FAA’s process is designed to discover and highlight potential risks. The FAA recently found a potential risk that Boeing must mitigate,” the FAA said in the statement emailed to Reuters. “The FAA will lift the aircraft’s prohibition order when we deem it is safe to do so.”

    Given the choice of flying in the MAX or walking, I'm going to walk.

    Not sure I understand how this latest snafu was missed during qualification. I'm sure somebody will be along to explain.

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    The amount of aircraft that are sat around in carparks at the moment because Boeing cannot shift these things, makes me wonder how long it will be before lazyB reach out to .gov for a bailout.
    By all accounts they were really close during the 787 development when they had to scrap the first 3 aircraft off, because the wing/joint issue.
    But this is surely going to be a whole lot worse?

  16. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    The amount of aircraft that are sat around in carparks at the moment because Boeing cannot shift these things, makes me wonder how long it will be before lazyB reach out to .gov for a bailout.
    By all accounts they were really close during the 787 development when they had to scrap the first 3 aircraft off, because the wing/joint issue.
    But this is surely going to be a whole lot worse?
    Who's paying for the loss of income from all the grounded aircraft, insurers ?

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Not sure I understand how this latest snafu was missed during qualification. I'm sure somebody will be along to explain.
    <cough>moderator<cough>

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Not sure I understand how this latest snafu was missed during qualification. I'm sure somebody will be along to explain.
    Maybe has something to do with them self certifying their stuff?

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    ...By all accounts they were really close during the 787 development when they had to scrap the first 3 aircraft off, because the wing/joint issue.
    Boeing built 6 test aircraft for the 787 program. The first 3 had no commercial value and they are on display. One in Seattle, one in Tuscon, and one in Japan.

    The remaining 3 were heavily modified during the development process, and were also unsuitable for commercial service, at least as far as the airlines were concerned. One was sold to Mexico and is used to ferry around the Mexican president. One is in storage in Moses Lake, and one was dismantled at Everett last year.

    All six were charged off as R&D expenses. None were scrapped due to the wing joints or any other issues- they were test frames.

    The issue that the FAA discovered on the MAX has nothing to do with MCAS or the software changes. It's a data processing issue with the FCC, the details of which have not been released.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    The issue that the FAA discovered on the MAX has nothing to do with MCAS or the software changes. It's a data processing issue with the FCC, the details of which have not been released.
    From a 6/26/19 NPR report:

    "Boeing has developed a software fix for that flight control system, called MCAS, but sources familiar with the situation tell NPR that in simulator testing last week, that FAA test pilots discovered a separate issue that affected their ability to quickly and easily follow recovery procedures for runaway stabilizer trim and stabilize the aircraft."

    It may be an FCC issue, but it still a setback and another blow to a company that is heavily damaged when questions about design or construction quality assurance come up. And it's a further sign of how far the engineering culture of Boeing has degraded.

    That's not something you want with one of your premier aircraft builders. If there's one place you don't want the bean counters reining supreme, it's aircraft manufacture. It must be lead by engineers, or they at least need parity with corporate management.

    Not a Boeing basher, I desperately want them to recover the reputation they used to have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Boeing built 6 test aircraft for the 787 program. The first 3 had no commercial value and they are on display. One in Seattle, one in Tuscon, and one in Japan.

    The remaining 3 were heavily modified during the development process, and were also unsuitable for commercial service, at least as far as the airlines were concerned. One was sold to Mexico and is used to ferry around the Mexican president. One is in storage in Moses Lake, and one was dismantled at Everett last year.

    All six were charged off as R&D expenses. None were scrapped due to the wing joints or any other issues- they were test frames.

    The issue that the FAA discovered on the MAX has nothing to do with MCAS or the software changes. It's a data processing issue with the FCC, the details of which have not been released.
    Interesting because I was told different - the original plan was no mock-ups, it was going to be the first truly electronic designed (CAD) airframe.
    The FEA CAD model was "wrong", which they only found after wing testing.
    14 square inches of additional fixing was required on each wing, but there was no way they could get "into the wing" to add any additional "patching".
    The 3x I spoke about were destined to be sold, and at one time (this was 2010), it looked VERY likely that they were going to approach Obama for a bail out.

    Regarding Max, I believe the data processing issue is "too slow to update". In certain conditions, the information takes too long to update the cockpit, and meanwhile lights and horns are blaring for however many seconds.
    The solution will not be easy as it's not a case of lifting the lid and removing a 486 and replacing with a Pentium processor...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Not a Boeing basher, I desperately want them to recover the reputation they used to have.
    Abbreviated, but +1 on the entire post. Not enough engineering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Not a Boeing basher, I desperately want them to recover the reputation they used to have.
    Same here. I'd like to think the competition Boeing and Airbus have would keep them both on their toes rather than I get the impression corners get cut.

    I detest the idea that I have to give thought to what I'm boarding when flying.

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