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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    It's just been on the radio over here that " Boeing " are considering halting production of the 737 Max. I suppose they must be running out of space to store completed aircraft and running out of money to keep building them without being able to sell them. It also mentioned they had made a pretty hefty financial loss but I missed the details of just how much.

    Regards Tyrone.
    Lives lost. Planes lost. Jobs lost. Reputation lost.

    And the C-levels who made the decisions to cut back on manufacturing quality control, worker training, and to increase outsourcing -

    They all got fat bonuses. And if things really slow down, likely cushy golden parachutes too.

    In an ideal world, they would be in jail and stripped of their blood money. But it's the passengers and workers who really paid the price.

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    Largest ever quarterly loss - $3.4bill says BBC and also says "If hurdles with regulators worldwide continue, Boeing said it would consider reducing or shutting down production of the 737 Max entirely. "
    Which sort of implies it's the pesky regulators that are to blame...

    Anyway, this says nearly $3Bill and the worse for at least 2 decades and has more detail, including the 777X issues

    Boeing CEO raises possibility of pausing Max production | The Seattle Times
    Boeing says 737 MAX crisis could temporarily shut down Renton production | The Seattle Times

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    Lives lost. Planes lost. Jobs lost. Reputation lost.

    And the C-levels who made the decisions to cut back on manufacturing quality control, worker training, and to increase outsourcing -

    They all got fat bonuses. And if things really slow down, likely cushy golden parachutes too.

    In an ideal world, they would be in jail and stripped of their blood money. But it's the passengers and workers who really paid the price.
    Well barrister that still remains to be seen. The investigating is not done and you say they should be thrown into jail. You do not mention who would be and what they did.

    Rattle on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Well barrister that still remains to be seen. The investigating is not done and you say they should be thrown into jail. You do not mention who would be and what they did.

    Rattle on.
    The best thing to do for all concerned is to shut down Boeing and take all their money as retribution. Put all their tooling out to bid as well as any patents and intellectual property rights. Stock holders get zero. For the people that died for Boeing's profit, give each surviving member of the families 10 million each out to 3rd cousins. No need for jail time after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    Well barrister that still remains to be seen. The investigating is not done and you say they should be thrown into jail. You do not mention who would be and what they did.

    Rattle on.
    You are correct, it was clearly the workers who decided unilaterally to lay themselves off from Boeing. And the ones that didn't - they demanded that much of the remaining tasks be sent off to uninvested subcontractors.

    Time and personnel for quality control checks? Silly wastes of time said the employees, who graciously donated the funds saved to the struggling executives, barely able to buy their next mansion (of the month): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-last-year

    And the decision tree for how to rush the Max out to compete with an upcoming Airbus model? The same one used to figure out where to save money on the Max - all the line workers were polled, and they (THEY!) were the ones that forced the execs to limit safety items to "options", to cut down on redundancy on those very options, and to ensure that pilot training was cut or obscured because, well, it's such a waste of money.


    Rattle on? So the ninny brays...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milland View Post
    You are correct, it was clearly the workers who decided unilaterally to lay themselves off from Boeing. And the ones that didn't - they demanded that much of the remaining tasks be sent off to uninvested subcontractors.

    Time and personnel for quality control checks? Silly wastes of time said the employees, who graciously donated the funds saved to the struggling executives, barely able to buy their next mansion (of the month): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-last-year

    And the decision tree for how to rush the Max out to compete with an upcoming Airbus model? The same one used to figure out where to save money on the Max - all the line workers were polled, and they (THEY!) were the ones that forced the execs to limit safety items to "options", to cut down on redundancy on those very options, and to ensure that pilot training was cut or obscured because, well, it's such a waste of money.


    Rattle on? So the ninny brays...
    Maybe. I will wait for the investigation. Unless you have a inside track into what happened you only can guess based on the news. With all the proposed automated trucks and cars coming automated systems need extra care. Heck so does CNC. When one hits the green button and walks to the other side of the shop and the machine crashes it takes forever to stop it from making the noise of a train wreck.

    The Max has a lot of negative attention for sure and I am not surprised with the concern. I have never thought Boeing was Criminally Negligent. Until the investigation is complete we only guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    .... I have never thought Boeing was Criminally Negligent.
    Moderator has a *law* degree! Who'd a guessed it.
    Now on to the critical question, you've been passing the hat amongst the Boeing apologists, so exactly
    how much of the three billion dollars have you managed to collect?

    On edit: excuse me. Three point four billion dollars. Point four billion dollars is, in round numbers, let's
    see, ummm.....

    $400,000,000

    Yep, four hundred MILLION dollars, almost a rounding error there. Sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Moderator has a *law* degree! Who'd a guessed it.
    Now on to the critical question, you've been passing the hat amongst the Boeing apologists, so exactly
    how much of the three billion dollars have you managed to collect?

    On edit: excuse me. Three point four billion dollars. Point four billion dollars is, in round numbers, let's
    see, ummm.....

    $400,000,000

    Yep, four hundred MILLION dollars, almost a rounding error there. Sorry.
    You are the one making accusations in the absence of a completed investigation. I do know there is one going on and I am willing to wait. You are more involved because you are accusatory of Boeing. When you finally get some proof for what you have been baying all this time only then in the light of the facts will it mean something to me.

    One thing I am pretty certain of is that things will not unfold the way you peddle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    .... and I am willing to wait. .
    No need to wait, buddy! The $3.4 B charge is a done deal. You can sleep easy knowing at least that is settled.

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    I don't think we'll have to hold a charity benefit for Boeing anytime soon. Boeing commercial earns in excess of $2 Bn profits per quarter. The 737 backlog is over 4700 frames.

    The charge is an accounting entry- a tax write-off. It was $5.6 Bn in total. Part of that was costs related to anticipated delays on 777X. Part of it is for reimbursing operators for the loss of revenue while the MAX is grounded. $2.7 Bn is anticipated penalties for delays in 737 MAX deliveries. The $2.7 Bn is amortized over the 3100 frame MAX backlog- meaning Boeing will decrease the flyaway cost of each jet based on how long it is delayed. The MAX backlog is 7+ years of production, so no one knows how much the cost will really be.

    Separate from this, Boeing setup a compensation fund with $50 Million to pay the families of the crash flights. That fund is managed by Ken Feinberg, the guy who ran the 9/11 and Deepwater Horizon funds.
    Last edited by jancollc; 07-26-2019 at 07:06 PM.

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    Jancollc, Hello old friend. go check my thread on OKUM MC-4VA and give me some feedback if ya would. Hope all is well.

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    Lot's of Boeing Bears growling, is it time to short BA?

    Not with my $.

    Fools be warned; your playing with FIRE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Headz Marine View Post
    Jancollc, Hello old friend. go check my thread on OKUM MC-4VA and give me some feedback if ya would. Hope all is well.
    Hi Lewis. I will look. Good to see you back!

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    New article out by NYT:

    The Roots of Boeing’s 737 Max Crisis: A Regulator Relaxes Its Oversight - The New York Times

    Exerpt:

    Under the impression the system was insignificant, officials didn’t require Boeing to tell pilots about MCAS. When the company asked to remove mention of MCAS from the pilot’s manual, the agency agreed. The F.A.A. also did not mention the software in 30 pages of detailed descriptions noting differences between the Max and the previous iteration of the 737.

    Days after the Lion Air crash, the agency invited Boeing executives to the F.A.A.’s Seattle headquarters, according to two people with knowledge of the matter. The officials sat incredulous as Boeing executives explained details about the system that they didn’t know.

    In the middle of the conversation, an F.A.A. employee, one of the people said, interrupted to ask a question on the minds of several agency engineers: Why hadn’t Boeing updated the safety analysis of a system that had become so dangerous?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    New article out by NYT:

    The Roots of Boeing’s 737 Max Crisis: A Regulator Relaxes Its Oversight - The New York Times

    Exerpt:

    Under the impression the system was insignificant, officials didn’t require Boeing to tell pilots about MCAS. When the company asked to remove mention of MCAS from the pilot’s manual, the agency agreed. The F.A.A. also did not mention the software in 30 pages of detailed descriptions noting differences between the Max and the previous iteration of the 737.

    Days after the Lion Air crash, the agency invited Boeing executives to the F.A.A.’s Seattle headquarters, according to two people with knowledge of the matter. The officials sat incredulous as Boeing executives explained details about the system that they didn’t know.

    In the middle of the conversation, an F.A.A. employee, one of the people said, interrupted to ask a question on the minds of several agency engineers: Why hadn’t Boeing updated the safety analysis of a system that had become so dangerous?
    It's worth reading the whole article, there's a lot in there that show both the FAA and Boeing in a very poor light.

    The only upside being future planes should now be safer, assuming the FAA is allowed to do it's job, and not delegate responsibility to Boeing.

    I wonder is Cessna and Gulfstream have similar arrangements with the FAA.

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    BBC TV " Panorama " current affairs programme is doing a programme on the 737 Max issue tonight. I'm out in Spain at the moment so I'll have to miss it. On a brief piece on the radio an ex Boeing employee is complaining of cost cutting behind the scenes.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    You are the one making accusations in the absence of a completed investigation. I do know there is one going on an....

    Hell, they should pull a trump. If any investigation develops under the Trump DOJ, Boeing executives should fight and refuse any subpoenas, only answer certain questions that the investigators submit to them in written form, answer untruthfully, and have our moderator (as their spokesman) go on Fox and deny that there were any crashes and suggest that it is the Airbus executives that should be thrown in jail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    You are the one making accusations in the absence of a completed investigation. I do know there is one going on and I am willing to wait. You are more involved because you are accusatory of Boeing. When you finally get some proof for what you have been baying all this time only then in the light of the facts will it mean something to me.

    One thing I am pretty certain of is that things will not unfold the way you peddle.
    Your opinion in this thread has been very one sided from the start. Take your own advice and wait for the conclusion rather than go after all that you don't agree with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    BBC TV " Panorama " current affairs programme is doing a programme on the 737 Max issue tonight. I'm out in Spain at the moment so I'll have to miss it. On a brief piece on the radio an ex Boeing employee is complaining of cost cutting behind the scenes.

    Regards Tyrone.
    BBC One - Panorama, Boeing's Killer Planes

    Looks to be availible online shortly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeE. View Post
    and have our moderator (as their spokesman) go on Fox and deny that there were any crashes and suggest that it is the Airbus executives that should be thrown in jail.
    That's seems about right, they'll take any trailer park resident to make a point that supports the Boeing narrative.

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