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Thread: Boeing 737 Max

  1. #1001
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    I see you Brits just got your first Poseidon ASW plane. Clearly it is a 737 Max with the appropriate modifications. I wonder if it has MCAS?

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    A union for 28,000 American Airlines cabin crew has told Boeing'''s CEO its members are scared of getting back on the 737 Max

    A union for 28,000 American Airlines cabin crew has told Boeing's CEO its members are scared of getting back on the 737 Max

    It said the union wanted to make its own assessment even after the US Federal Aviation Administration certified the plane to fly again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    I see you Brits just got your first Poseidon ASW plane. Clearly it is a 737 Max with the appropriate modifications. I wonder if it has MCAS?
    P-8A is derived from 737NG. Uses CFM-56 engines.

    No MCAS.

  4. #1004
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    ...It said the union wanted to make its own assessment even after the US Federal Aviation Administration certified the plane to fly again.
    Because who better to make engineering safety assessments than the flight attendant's union?

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  6. #1005
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Because who better to make engineering safety assessments than the flight attendant's union?
    Yeah I can just see it. Flight attendants suggest a design change that makes the plane nose-dive uncontrollably into the ground.

    Boeing: "HEY. You can't do that. That's OUR job!"

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    Possibly a little late....and return the plane to service first then roll out the enhanced training.
    Errrrr....
    Boeing to invest $1 billion in global safety drive - sources

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    Regulators find gaps in Boeing'''s 737 MAX software documentation: sources

    One person briefed on the matter said Boeing's paperwork was incomplete and substandard and meant regulators could not complete the audit, a crucial step before the plane can be certified to return to service.

    The person said it could take "weeks" to satisfy regulators in a worst-case scenario, though Boeing believes it can address the omissions in a matter of days.

    Boeing spokesman Gordon Johndrone declined to comment in detail on the audit but said the company was "continuing to work with the regulators to safely return the MAX to service."

    The FAA did not immediately comment but in September, FAA Administrator Steve Dickson told Reuters the agency had conversations with Boeing "about the importance of making sure that we are looking at complete documentation and not piecemeal documentation."


    So now the FAA is doing the job they were supposed to be doing.

    He added the FAA told Boeing "it's really better to be very methodical and very detailed rather than try to rush a partially completed product and then say, ‘We’ll get back to you with the rest of it.’”

    A third person, familiar with FAA documentation audits but who did not participate in the 737 MAX review over the weekend, said such audits frequently uncover inconsistencies or omissions in documentation but rarely lead to changes to the underlying software or system.

  10. #1008
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    Boeing now have an engine cowling problem. It was reported that 7000 aircraft will need new, updated cowlings. It never rains but it pissed down.

  11. #1009
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    Channel 4 over here had a documentary on the two crashes last night. Most of it went over old ground that the majority of us are familiar with. The interesting part was were they had two very experienced airline pilots, one a Brit the other an American, fly the two flights again on a simulator using the knowledge that the real pilots had at the time.

    In both cases they crashed the aircraft. On the second flight in Ethiopia the programme put forward the theory that the vital sensor was disabled by a bird strike. So the MCAS then took over and started diving the plane. Even when they switched off the MCAS they couldn't regain control of the aircraft as by that time the forces on the controls were too great. The time they had to do this was very, very short.

    The bird strike theory is new to me.

    Regards Tyrone.

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  13. #1010
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    Yes,I watched that too. Fascinating. It appeared to me that Boeing just kept digging themselves in deeper rather than admit MCAS was a bad idea. Good thing to ground them.

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    I had seen the bird strike theory before, but, when you see the effects, you may well consider at least doubling up or better still,put them where the birds can't get at them.
    Must agree,Boeing sure do know how to dig.

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  16. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    I had seen the bird strike theory before, but, when you see the effects, you may well consider at least doubling up or better still,put them where the birds can't get at them.
    Must agree,Boeing sure do know how to dig.
    Yes, it seems crazy to rely on just one sensor when it's in such a vulnerable position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    Yes, it seems crazy to rely on just one sensor when it's in such a vulnerable position.
    That is absolutely insane if there is just the one sensor.
    And if there is, the FAA need shooting with shit too for approving this.
    Bad enough on the Scarebus Airfrance AF447 crash where the primary and secondary pitot tubes were the same make and model number...that all froze up.

    Ohhh i hate flying...

  18. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbter View Post
    That is absolutely insane if there is just the one sensor.
    And if there is, the FAA need shooting with shit too for approving this.
    Bad enough on the Scarebus Airfrance AF447 crash where the primary and secondary pitot tubes were the same make and model number...that all froze up.

    Ohhh i hate flying...
    There certainly was just the one sensor. Why have two when you may hit a pretty little dicky bird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    There certainly was just the one sensor. Why have two when you may hit a pretty little dicky bird.
    There are 2 alpha vanes. MCAS was only using one at a time though.

    It uses the pilot side on initial startup, then alternates between the pilot and copilot side on each takeoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    I had seen the bird strike theory before, but, when you see the effects, you may well consider at least doubling up or better still,put them where the birds can't get at them.
    Must agree,Boeing sure do know how to dig.
    If you put them where the birds couldn't get to them, they would be useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    There are 2 alpha vanes. MCAS was only using one at a time though.

    It uses the pilot side on initial startup, then alternates between the pilot and copilot side on each takeoff.
    They certainly didn't mention that last night,they said one sensor. But even if there are two if they alternate on each take off then basically that's only one.

  22. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    They certainly didn't mention that last night,they said one sensor. But even if there are two if they alternate on each take off then basically that's only one.
    Here's a pic of the nose of a 737 MAX. The flags are on the pitot tubes, the AOA vanes are below, one on each side.

    MCAS is an extension of STS, which also only uses one alpha vane at a time. Boeing's greater f-up was the degree of authority they gave MCAS. What wasn't a problem with Mach Trim and Speed Trim was a problem with MCAS due to it's ability to regenerate.

    max-nose.jpg

  23. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    Here's a pic of the nose of a 737 MAX. The flags are on the pitot tubes, the AOA vanes are below, one on each side.

    MCAS is an extension of STS, which also only uses one alpha vane at a time. Boeing's greater f-up was the degree of authority they gave MCAS. What wasn't a problem with Mach Trim and Speed Trim was a problem with MCAS due to it's ability to regenerate.

    max-nose.jpg
    So where are we with the *fix*?
    All i've read is software software software, but do we know if they're fundamentally changing the way it functions, opposed to just tweaking algorithms?

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    ... put them where the birds can't get at them. ...
    Inside the cabin?


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