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  1. #1121
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    The MHSA was repealed to save money full stop.
    You can’t pretty it up by calling it patient rights.

    Just wait till you have a family member who has a serious problem and there is no money to institutionalize that person.
    They face ending up on the street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    The MHSA was repealed to save money full stop.
    You can’t pretty it up by calling it patient rights.

    Just wait till you have a family member who has a serious problem and there is no money to institutionalize that person.
    They face ending up on the street.
    I have a member or 2 in my family who need to be institutionalized, instead one of them is currently sponging off my parents, Moms brother, after spending his life terrorizing his father and mother until they passed.

    There are people who are broken and have no place in society. Most end up on the streets. Others end up as politicians and CEOs.
    Last edited by CAMasochism; 12-03-2019 at 01:02 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Like every thing else Carter did it was a clown show.
    Public Policy and Mental Illnesses: Jimmy Carter's Presidential Commission on Mental Health

    It helped no one but the special interest whiners and set mental illness treatment back by a decade or so. Read above- it accelerated deinstitutionalization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    What browser are you using ? Stupid flipping fireflop insists that "this site is not secure" and refuses to connect. If I could find a current (idiot javascript is everywhere now) browser that was totally unsafe, I'd go there in a heartbeat.
    In this case I tested it with Firefox - no problems. Check your settings.

    If the site were a problem my commercial security software would have flagged it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I need to watch this again to be definitive but from what I recall of the second simulator flight the pilots definitely turned off the MCAS at one point. Later on they were really struggling to physically turn the handwheel. As a last resort they turned the MCAS back on but it was too late.
    See, this tells me that they were doing a "dramatic reconstruction" of the crash flights.

    The simulators did not act like that- in the simulator, you could easily turn the manual trim wheel no matter the airspeed.

    IOW, they were "acting". That's why they cut back and forth to the FDR trace in the sim sequence.

    The Ethiopian flight, they did turn the MCAS off and on, they did overspeed the airplane and could not turn the manual trim wheel at 350kts.

    This wasn't how the simulators behaved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Just wait till you have a family member who has a serious problem and there is no money to institutionalize that person.
    ....
    You do understand of course that healthcare is not a basic human right. And imagine if we had (gasp) single payer
    national heathcare - like they do in the UK. Why I've heard horror stories about how you would need to wait WEEKS
    to get a viagra prescription.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jancollc View Post
    See, this tells me that they were doing a "dramatic reconstruction" of the crash flights.

    The simulators did not act like that- in the simulator, you could easily turn the manual trim wheel no matter the airspeed.

    IOW, they were "acting". That's why they cut back and forth to the FDR trace in the sim sequence.

    The Ethiopian flight, they did turn the MCAS off and on, they did overspeed the airplane and could not turn the manual trim wheel at 350kts.

    This wasn't how the simulators behaved.
    Could they have rolled inverted to unload?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    Could they have rolled inverted to unload?
    Not likely, they would probably have went into a spin and broke up.

    Unloading the stab is as easy as turning on the electric trim, use the thumb switches to get a neutral elevator, then hit the cutouts. Use the manual trim wheel from there on.

    The PIC had it under control- but he had the stick shaker, so he handed it over to the FO. That's the right thing to do, but he didn't tell his FO how much counter trim he was using. The FO put in a few small blips, but he got behind the plane pretty quick, and couldn't recover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    You do understand of course that healthcare is not a basic human right. And imagine if we had (gasp) single payer
    national heathcare - like they do in the UK. Why I've heard horror stories about how you would need to wait WEEKS
    to get a viagra prescription.
    I think this is the same debate that happened in the 1930's in this country. That debate is over now and we now belive that every person has the right to enough food and shelter to live even if they can not pay for it. When the great depression started many Americans believed the government had no business wasting money on them and it was their own fault. Those without jobs deserved to starve to death and reduce the surplus population, and be quick about it.
    Bill D
    Bil lD

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    You do understand of course that healthcare is not a basic human right. And imagine if we had (gasp) single payer
    national heathcare - like they do in the UK. Why I've heard horror stories about how you would need to wait WEEKS
    to get a viagra prescription.
    You can buy Viagra over the counter at any pharmacy in the UK.

    I was reading an article in my paper the other day by an American living over here in the UK. He was discussing the treatment his young son, who had a very serious condition, had received from the NHS. He was praising the NHS to the skies and comparing it with what it would have happened in the US.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    You can buy Viagra over the counter at any pharmacy in the UK.

    I was reading an article in my paper the other day by an American living over here in the UK. He was discussing the treatment his young son, who had a very serious condition, had received from the NHS. He was praising the NHS to the skies and comparing it with what it would have happened in the US.

    Regards Tyrone.
    A friend from Portsmouth (England) who's lived here since 1984 (I've been here since 1986) was recently back in the UK for a couple of weeks.

    During the stay he thought he was having a heart attack. So he had an ambulance ride to the ER. Stayed a couple of days in the hospital. Had all the usual workups including a cat-scan. Whatever it was, it wasn't a heart attack, so he was discharged.

    A week later the symptoms return, so he goes back to the ER. They check him out again, same result, it wasn't a heart attack. Didin't stay the night, but was there all day.

    Although he holds a UK passport (and US passport) having only contributed to the NI for a few years he didn't qualify for free care at the NHS hospitals.

    So he was presented with a bill.

    5000ukp. (edit, that's $6562 at the current exchange rate)

    Imagine what that would have been at a US hospital if you didn't have insurance.
    Last edited by triumph406; 12-06-2019 at 12:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    You do understand of course that healthcare is not a basic human right. And imagine if we had (gasp) single payer
    national heathcare - like they do in the UK. Why I've heard horror stories about how you would need to wait WEEKS
    to get a viagra prescription.
    If you believe what you've posted then I can certainly understand why the USA is probably the only industrial/civilized country in the world that doesn't have a tax financed healthcare. The question is - are you being brainwashed or conned?

    My country isn't the best but to get a doctors appointment all I do is phone in for a time. Usually I can get one in 2 to 4 days but if the receptionist feels it's urgent then same day.

    I don't know about the price of Viagra but as good as all the medicine I have a prescription for (the aftermath of my aneurism) I pay a fifth to a tenth of the "real" price. I don't think I can legally buy something like Viagra here without a prescription and anything like that I wouldn't dream of buying on the internet.

    In fact in less than 2 weeks I'll be at our local hospital (twice a year) to have my urin and blood samples checked and be consulted by a specialist.

    Of course all this isn't free but I never have to pay from my pocket. My tax money takes care of that.

    Healthcare DENMARK | Healthcare DENMARK

    Health in Denmark - Lonely Planet

    If the USA was best I'd say it was money well spent but you aren't so it isn't.

    How does health spending in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

    OK those with plenty of money and/or good insurance policies are OK but that's far from all.

    IMO it is a human right! The USA sends doctors to poor countries (as does many countries)for free treatment but treating sick folk at home seems impossible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    IMO it is a human right!
    I do not believe it is a "right" and I think calling it a "right" creates needless friction. Calling decent health care a benefit of living in a first world country would be closer to the truth, and would have the added attraction of being a less confrontational way of expressing the goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    If you believe what you've posted then I can certainly understand why the USA is probably the only industrial/civilized country in the world that doesn't have a tax financed healthcare. The question is - are you being brainwashed or conned?

    My country isn't the best but to get a doctors appointment all I do is phone in for a time. Usually I can get one in 2 to 4 days but if the receptionist feels it's urgent then same day.

    I don't know about the price of Viagra but as good as all the medicine I have a prescription for (the aftermath of my aneurism) I pay a fifth to a tenth of the "real" price. I don't think I can legally buy something like Viagra here without a prescription and anything like that I wouldn't dream of buying on the internet.

    In fact in less than 2 weeks I'll be at our local hospital (twice a year) to have my urin and blood samples checked and be consulted by a specialist.

    Of course all this isn't free but I never have to pay from my pocket. My tax money takes care of that.

    Healthcare DENMARK | Healthcare DENMARK

    Health in Denmark - Lonely Planet

    If the USA was best I'd say it was money well spent but you aren't so it isn't.

    How does health spending in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

    OK those with plenty of money and/or good insurance policies are OK but that's far from all.

    IMO it is a human right! The USA sends doctors to poor countries (as does many countries)for free treatment but treating sick folk at home seems impossible?
    Please read Jim Rozens post again and see the error of your ways.
    Think irony, think Humour,think.

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  21. #1135
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    One thing I have noticed is self pay arrangements are fairly progressive in some of the frame shops I have been to over the last few years.
    One large county medical center is 20% of bill if you can pay that day.
    My dentist seems to charge less than I do in my shop while a visit last week to a medial imaging center had a sheet printed out for self pay rates for services- $120 for a ultrasound series seemed almost free for the time it took to my mind.

    It seems to me the market is making allowances for those who are coming in outside of the normal insurance umbrellas.

    Anyone see the movie form the late 80's Jesus of Montreal?

    Jesus Of Montreal movie review (1990) | Roger Ebert

    Last few scenes make use of complaints about national health care to wrap up the script..

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    A friend from Portsmouth (England) who's lived here since 1984 (I've been here since 1986) was recently back in the UK for a couple of weeks.

    During the stay he thought he was having a heart attack. So he had an ambulance ride to the ER. Stayed a couple of days in the hospital. Had all the usual workups including a cat-scan. Whatever it was, it wasn't a heart attack, so he was discharged.

    A week later the symptoms return, so he goes back to the ER. They check him out again, same result, it wasn't a heart attack. Didin't stay the night, but was there all day.

    Although he holds a UK passport (and US passport) having only contributed to the NI for a few years he didn't qualify for free care at the NHS hospitals.

    So he was presented with a bill.

    5000ukp.

    Imagine what that would have been at a US hospital if you didn't have insurance.
    The guy I quoted in the article had lived in the UK for 5 years and was paying our taxes and national insurance contributions. He was also paying the " immigrant health surcharge " ( £400 a year per person apparently ) for himself and each member of his family.

    He was planning to return to the US when his young son was suddenly diagnosed with a brain tumour. The lad was treated at Great Ormond St in London which specialises in child care. Probably the best place in the UK for a child to be treated.

    He says at one point - " The stress you feel surrounding your health in the UK is much less than in the US, thanks to the absence of finanancial fear. Waiting for two hours in the UK A&E at one in the morning sucks; waiting for two hours in an American ER at one in the morning as you rehearse the speech you'll give the billing office about how the insurance from your new job doesn't kick in until the end of the month and you can't afford the CT scan your child is likely to need is a whole level of stress that I pray no one in the UK ever feels ".

    I live facing a huge common, a large expanse of open, very flat, land about as big as four football pitches. Our local hospital is about 5 minutes walk away. One Friday night I'd been out to my local for a few beers. I got a taxi back home and as the taxi turned the corner onto my road to my amazement I saw a huge yellow Royal Navy Sea King helicopter had landed on the common opposite my house !

    Apparently it was waiting to take a seriously sick very young child and it's two parents down to Great Ormond St in London for emergency surgery. That's about a 200 mile journey.
    After an half an hours wait an ambulance turned up next to the helicopter, the staff got out and took the child on a portable bed into the chopper. The parents got in next and with a huge cloud of dust the Sea King took off and headed South. I believe the child survived the ordeal.

    I have seen smaller helicopters do the same thing but the Sea King was a first.

    The other day there was an article on the radio over here regarding the cost of basic medical items, treatments etc in the US. The examples were jaw droppingly expensive to both myself and my wife.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    I do not believe it is a "right" and I think calling it a "right" creates needless friction. Calling decent health care a benefit of living in a first world country would be closer to the truth, and would have the added attraction of being a less confrontational way of expressing the goal.
    I'm not trying to be confrontational. We/I regard healthcare as a right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by camscan View Post
    Please read Jim Rozens post again and see the error of your ways.
    Think irony, think Humour,think.
    As helpful and impersonal as always. Think sarcasm

    I suggest you read my reply to Rozens post and this time - you think. I started with "If you believe what you've posted" as maybe not all thought irony or humour. Many Americans seem to choose to believe all the negative about tax funded healthcare rather than the many benefits and advantages.

    I don't regard any country as best but some are better than others.

    List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia

    The UK was first and for that they deserve credit and thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    Think sarcasm
    Ok- how's this.

    We have just about most well developed health care system in the world- we are SECOND!

    The pissing Danes hardly rate- You pilgrims come in 22nd!

    Take that ya socialists...


    Current health expenditure (% of GDP) | Data

  27. #1140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    I'm not trying to be confrontational. We/I regard healthcare as a right.
    I agree Gordon, health care should be a basic human right along with having a roof over your head.

    Where I live in quite impoverished Rochdale we have a small homelessness problem. Manchester which is only 10 miles away and is a very thriving and affluent major city has a huge homelessness problem with dozens of people sleeping rough even in the depths of winter. They had a sort of " Hooverville " for a while with people banding together and living in tents in the centre of the city but the local council closed it down.

    Regards Tyrone.


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