Boeing and Seattle....
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  1. #1
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    Default Boeing and Seattle....

    Seattle was a Boeing town for as long as I can remember. If Boeing coughed the greater Seattle area got pneumonia. If what's happening with Boeing right now happened thirty, forty years ago we'd have the billboard from the 1970's again, "will the last person leaving Seattle turn out the lights".

    This morning's paper mentioned worry with local Boeing suppliers about the near future. A few outfits have spotty layoffs. Most say they're trying to hold on until orders come again. Even the retrofit companies who update the older planes are hurting, the airlines can't spare the planes out of service because of their 737 Max groundings. The paper didn't mention the affect on the small second tier suppliers which could be worse than for the big guys. Spirit in Wichita has had major layoffs.

    Now, in general conversations you don't even hear talk about Boeing's problems. Generally, Seattle's population is much younger than in past Boeing slowdowns. They have no clue about the city's prior dependence on Boeing.

    We've got Amazon, Microsoft and a good presence of all the high tech outfits from Silicon Valley. Funny how things change.

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    I'm sure Boing will push the "too big to fail" excuse for goobermint hand outs.

    what with all their fingers extended deeply into the military complex.

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    As mighty as Boeing are I think the 737Max is going to hurt them dearly, from here in Europe we believe the queue of law suits is now huge. The USAF are extremely unhappy with the KC-46 both in its operation and delayed delivery rate. Their QC is not great either, but for that matter neither is Lockheed Martin. Only last week LM's F-35 list of faults surpassed 780! including wrong rivets in the wing/fuselage attachment area.

    When the British Royal Air Force received the "New" C-130J Hercules from LM we found bags of bolts loose in the wing leading edges and "Interchangeable" parts NOT being interchangable between aircraft because of poor QC.

    ... but in fairness are your cars or machines built with the same care and dedication as they used to be??

    I think not

    Just my two cents worth

    John

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    The local shops near me, north of Seattle, are somewhat diversified- as in, several of them work for BOTH Boeing and Airbus.
    The biggest local shop, actually the biggest employer in my county after school districts, does work for both, as well as for all kinds of other multinationals, and a fair amount of "black" work where even the janitors need 2 month long security checks before being allowed in.

    I should check though- I have several ex-employees who work in a place that is more fab than machine shop, but has done a lot of
    Big B work for 30 years- I wonder if they are laying off?

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    Ir might be impacting some shops out there but I am a hour outside seattle and have seen zero change do to Boeing. 20 or 30 years ago I had a lot of friends in the area that worked for Boeing or sub shops for them and today I don`t have a single friend that works for them ,, I keep watching the local auctions and have seen no shops come up that did Boeing work ,, well it might be impacting a few shops in the area I think there just switching gears and finding other work ,,

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    Most of the Boeing work that I see and do (infrastructure machinery, not airplane parts) has long lead times. An automated riveting or fiber winding machine gets ordered long before it is scheduled to start operating, so big Boeing business impacts that happen now don't hit little shops like me for a long time.

    Regards.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    The biggest local shop, actually the biggest employer in my county after school districts, does work for both, as well as for all kinds of other multinationals, and a fair amount of "black" work where even the janitors need 2 month long security checks before being allowed in.
    35+ years ago my dad worked security for Northrop. The plant hired quite a few outside contractors, painters, carpenters, electricians, etc. Each one had to have a security officer with them at all times, even in the john. The entry level security jobs paid decent with overtime and a great benefit package. All you needed was a clean criminal record and a pulse. If you had a law enforcement background you could start as a supervisor, like my dad did. When I was in between machinist jobs my dad said he could get me in, he gave me a hard time when I refused as the job paid quite a bit more than I was use to making as a machinist with a couple years experience. My dad was inherently lazy so he did not understand why anyone would turn down a job that paid good and you really did not have to work. There were some guys that actually watched people paint all day, I would not have lasted an hour doing that.

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    Whatever happened to the backlog of 5,406 planes they had on order?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Whatever happened to the backlog of 5,406 planes they had on order?
    Well I'm led to believe the order for five Boeing Wedgetail's for the British Royal Air Force has been shelved in the last week.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    35+ years ago my dad worked security for Northrop. The plant hired quite a few outside contractors, painters, carpenters, electricians, etc. Each one had to have a security officer with them at all times, even in the john. The entry level security jobs paid decent with overtime and a great benefit package. All you needed was a clean criminal record and a pulse. If you had a law enforcement background you could start as a supervisor, like my dad did. When I was in between machinist jobs my dad said he could get me in, he gave me a hard time when I refused as the job paid quite a bit more than I was use to making as a machinist with a couple years experience. My dad was inherently lazy so he did not understand why anyone would turn down a job that paid good and you really did not have to work. There were some guys that actually watched people paint all day, I would not have lasted an hour doing that.

    This company, Janicki, doesnt do it that way- instead, they make the individual tradesmen, like my friend the electrical contractor, get individual security clearances. Then, they get repeat high paying jobs. I am sure there are some security personell, but the cleared contractors can go most places. Some stuff is ultra top secret, I am sure.

    As far as the Boeing backlog, its still close to 5000 planes. But they only made a bit under 400 planes last year, and so theoretically it could take them more than ten years at last years slower than normal rate, to crank em all out.

    Certainly, more plane orders will be cancelled, but my guess is that they still have plenty of backlog to keep the main plants busy for 3 or 4 years.

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    The real issue is how much of that backlog is 737max planes, and much of *that* backlog will evaporate in one way or another while their struggles with the max go on.
    A follow-on is how many previously very loyal-to-boeing airlines (e.g. southwest airlines) will develop a new attitude of very serious consideration of airbus (who has their problems too), or somebody else.

    And in the mean time, covid-19 is tanking airtravel on a worldwide basis, from which the world will presumably mostly recover, but when?

    And what long lasting changes will emerge from this? Will people's comfort with dependency on supply chains from the PRC go down, and will that change worldwide supply chain patterns, and how will that ripple out over time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey John View Post

    ... but in fairness are your cars or machines built with the same care and dedication as they used to be??



    John
    Hello JJ,
    I strongly disagree with your above statement. The quality of US made goods is top notch and they are in great demand throughout the world. The UK relies greatly on our products.


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