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  1. #21
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    how do you put insulation on a half million volt line?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    how do you put insulation on a half million volt line?
    An underpaid illegal and a whole lot of electrical tape.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMasochism View Post
    An underpaid illegal and a whole lot of electrical tape.
    just make sure the prop 65 warning on the tape is written in spanish

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Didn't they get hit with heavy fines last time for "starting" the fire when wind blown branches on the trees they weren't allowed to trim properly hit the lines and ignited?

    Typical California, prevent people cutting firebreaks for environmental reasons and then bitch when fires spread.
    This morning's discussion (friend who was fire chief in one of the Bay Area's largest districts) said the main problem was high tension wires so loosely strung they arced when wind blew them together. And the ground below the high tensions wires hadn't been cleared in a decade, so a remote fire started and got out of control way too fast. Also apparently some problems in the first few hours of response.

    Seems to me you'd want to design and maintain high tension towers so they wouldn't arc? Also seems you'd want to clear underneath, like pretty much every other utility. FWIW, Dan said they're now back to doing that (clearing under high tension lines) -- they just thought they'd didn't need to spend the money before.

    The gas line explosions that killed several a few years earlier were from decades of deferred pipeline inspection and maintenance. PG&E has some of the highest rates in the country, but apparently decided it would rather pocket the profits and earn beyond generous bonuses than actually maintain their infrastructure. It wasn't that they didn't know they should inspect -- rather they falsified the records.

    I'm sure there are lots of other problems - such as people living in wildfire areas with inadequate access and individual owners not wanting every tree removed in their neighborhood. But it wasn't greenies that kept PG&E from clearing underneath their high tension lines or replacing their leaking gas pipes.

    Far as I can tell the current rolling shutdowns are as much PG&E telling customers "we're too big to fail" as it is a cost-effective precaution. While some high winds are expected, as they are expected around this time every year. Shutting power off is going to end up with thousands of homeowners firing up their gas generators, maybe pulling out camping stoves or aiming for a candlelight dinner. Not at all sure the risks from PG&E infrastructure being shut down are greater than the risks of 200,000 people trying to generate their own electricity, heat, and light.

    FWIW, my own neighborhood is filled with these supposed California greenies. But we regularly clear around our homes, own tens of thousands of gallons of supplemental fire tanks, have a neighborhood fire evacuation plan, and pay, as a group, to maintain firebreaks. And this is an area just a mile or two away from the coast and a dozen beaches, a highway, university, downtown, three fire stations, etc. Average citizens here are treating this far more responsibly than their utility.

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  7. #25
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    I side with pg&e. If I was fined 11 billion for weather and the gov not giving me the ability to firebreak and have a large enough easement ...I'd say screw it and cut power also to reduce risks.

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  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    I side with pg&e. If I was fined 11 billion for weather and the gov not giving me the ability to firebreak and have a large enough easement ...I'd say screw it and cut power also to reduce risks.
    PG&E was fined around $1.6 billion for falsifying pipeline inspection records - pipes that subsequently leaked and with an explosion that leveled several blocks and killed around 8 people.

    Far as I know, the 11 billion is one guesstimate of liability in various civil suits for property loss (pretty much an entire town) and the few dozen people killed resulting from the failure to maintain their high tension lines. Not a fine, and not yet adjudicated or paid. By the time it gets to court, I'd guess all sorts of arguments about the residents' own contributions to the disaster (like deciding to live there) will have been heard.

    Since corporations are now "people," I'd personally be OK seeing the execs in charge (e.g of the falsified inspections) face manslaughter charges, PG&E's insurance go to the victims, and whatever billions beyond that go to fix decades of neglected infrastructure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeteM View Post
    PG&E was fined around $1.6 billion for falsifying pipeline inspection records - pipes that subsequently leaked and with an explosion that leveled several blocks and killed around 8 people.

    Far as I know, the 11 billion one guesstimate of liability in various civil suits and the few dozen people killed resulting from the failure to maintain their high tension lines, not a fine.
    Thats because the dumbass state of California has deemed the utility companies to be responsible even though weather caused the damages. Its the same as if a tornado comes, sucks up your car and throws it into a house...then you as the car owner, are responsible for the damages to the house.

    Idiot citizens of California voted these Dumbass politicians in office to make these retarded laws and then the citizens now wonder why their electric is higher than it should be....What pg&e should foot the bill for the fines and lawsuites? Uh thats not how business works....you make up that money some how...

    If you dont like it you have a few choices.... Move, Stop voting idiots into office, start your own power company if you think you can do it better.

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    Voting bloc greenies dont live in the country...no latte shops or "decent" patisseries out there......they live in apartments and try to enforce their green dream on everyone who does live with fire risk.......here ,if I want to burn off,greenies say I can do it....buut only if I can afford environmental surveys ,risk assessments,a wildlife carer on site,with a wildlife ambulance on standby.And thats before the actual fire wardens and trucks onsite.......so ,its ,burn ,baby ,burn,as far as Im concerned.....Kids burn it off regular anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    If you dont like it you have a few choices.... Move, Stop voting idiots into office, start your own power company if you think you can do it better.
    The first two are viable options. The third one is totally unrealistic.

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    Invent a cow fart generator to put that part of global warming to good use..
    An accumulator hose from every cow but to a storage place then burn the farts gas to turn a generation..likely only cost 3 bucks for every dollar worth of electric..a good deal in caniforniaaa terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazygoat View Post
    The first two are viable options. The third one is totally unrealistic.
    Hey you can start your own power company for JUST YOU....buy a generator, invest in fuel storage, hell find a new way to generate electricity. You only need to be better than pg&e for yourself....but the fact remains that most if not all of us...cant be better than pg&e's worst performance.

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  18. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    how do you put insulation on a half million volt line?
    You don't need to insulate the high power lines, those are not causing fires. It's the lower smaller voltage lines that are the problem, those are the ones close to trees. And yes, thats a LOT of rewiring....but what ya gonna do, in modern society we need reliable electricity.....

  19. #33
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    funny under ground lines don't seem to cause problems most of the time.

    PG&E has a long history of being greed buggers who don't spend on maintenance.
    both PG&E and Edison got tax payer bail outs a few years back, and users are still paying for it.

    with lower costs for solar cheaper to install, and better and cheaper batteries
    self sufficient solar may be the way to go. and the both PG&E and Edison can go bugger off

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Thats because the dumbass state of California has deemed the utility companies to be responsible even though weather caused the damages. . . .
    For the largest fire - the one responsible for those near 100 dead and most of the $10 billion plus estimated civil liability - here is one published report: Last year, near Paradise, a live wire broke free of a tower that was a quarter-century past what PG&E considers its “useful life.”

    Same deal with the gas explosion leveling a neighborhood and killing eight -- ancient and leaking pipes, faked inspections -- kind of hard to think it was the weather to blame.

    Last time I talked to one of the IBEW linemen working on an outage, he said that old style fuses (dropping molten material - maintenance again?) and failed transformers were the cause of most power line fires in neighborhoods around here. Hence the mandate to clear an area below any pole with a transformer.




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    Yes this is political and posturing for the results of the finger pointing from previous fires. You don't insulate the majority of overhead medium voltage line 2kv-69kv. Insulated jumpers are used on fuses, breakers, lightning arrestors, jumpers, transformer taps.....

    Still doesn't make up for proper vegetation management. I know in socal when we were still there it was always a battle between the utilities, environmentalist, politicians, land owners on what gets cut and what gets left. I got my ass chewed and threatened to be arrested cutting a fire break on our place that backed up to National Forest Land as the Cedar fire was turning our way. She wanted to have me arrested for destruction of public property. It was only 4' tall sage.

    Sun, vibration, weather.... Will destroy insulation on medium voltage overhead lines. As the insulation begins to break down Corona tracking gets worse and worse. Oxides from the conductors will migrate to the exterior of the cables, tracking will increase. Problems amplify.

    It's a bitch to build, install, maintain with that cable

    I was part of a project in socal that tried the insulated "bird wire" conductor. Cable was trash in less than 5 years. Was built that way due to certain birds in the area.

    Proper medium voltage cable has a conductor, layer of semi conductor, insulator, semi conductor, shielding, insulating and protective jacket. Bird wire is simply insulated conductor. Anything over 2kv needs shielded cable.

    Underground installation of the entire medium voltage infrastructure is superior for reliability and safety. But will cost trillions and decades to accomplish.

    The California laws to place full liability upon the corporations and companies will only continue to over react, take ultra conservative actions.... Worst part is $10+ Billion in settlements will only be transferred to the rate payers over time. The California people elected these people that put these laws in place and justice department that make the court room decisions. They have done it to them selves.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakefreese View Post
    They have done it to them selves.
    True. After the Enron fiasco, we should have taken the top 100 PG&E officials out and shot them. That would send a strong signal that public utilities are expected to do their job correctly. That's why they get to be monopolies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    True. After the Enron fiasco, we should have taken the top 100 PG&E officials out and shot them. That would send a strong signal that public utilities are expected to do their job correctly. That's why they get to be monopolies.
    IDK.... I put the blame on the citizens that vote the idiot gov officials in office that make up the insane laws that lead up to the fires.

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  25. #38
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    Fourth option PG&E gets taken over and becomes California department of power and gas
    just like the LA DWP.
    works fine for city of LA and few other local municipalities.
    they actually maintain their equipment.

    what will fix the problem is when they start having to pay fines for power outages.

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    The Gov shouldnt own anything but thats another topic for discussion. Dont get me started on the rollercoaster of LA aka the highway.....

    I'm so glad I dont live in California.

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    I am pretty sure they are glad too.
    Gw

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