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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Might be best to buy 2 of these.

    Honeywell HT15068KNAC
    My setup has two on-site generators, both 80KW, each of which can handle full load, so I've got N+1 redundancy, but I'm also running computer equipment that can't go down...probably overkill for just machinery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    It would have been a lot better if the information they were sending out was accurate and precise. "We are going to shut off your power on this day at this exact time for this length of time". They called us multiple times with false information. I shut the shop off Tuesday night and they didn't cut the real power until 10pm Wednesday.

    Anyone know how much a generator that will supply 500 Amps of 480 power for a couple days will cost me? Afraid this is going to be the new norm and we just got our first terrible taste of it. Probably cost me 1/3 of the generator cost being down for almost 2 days of production.
    I think you need to ask the manufacturers for quotes on that size but since 150kw
    277/480V 3-Phase units run about $30,000 I'm guessing close to $60,000 before installation cost. Since the 150kW units are more common you might consider splitting the loads and use 2 since you will need rewiring for transfer switches anyway.

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    There are a few ways to do it but its going to be expensive no matter which way you go..They make flywheel systems or battery backup systems to handle the load for the time it takes generators to kick on. Depending on how many computers you have, might be easier to go the UPS way and battery backup each computer system for the time it takes to kick on the generators.

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  6. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    There are a few ways to do it but its going to be expensive no matter which way you go..They make flywheel systems or battery backup systems to handle the load for the time it takes generators to kick on. Depending on how many computers you have, might be easier to go the UPS way and battery backup each computer system for the time it takes to kick on the generators.
    Already have UPS on all the important computers.
    Rumor has it that a diesel generator cost per kW/hour is cheaper than the utility bill we are getting now. Paying about $12k a month in electricity

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    Diesel is about the same to run as power here where we are so I would imagine it would be the same where you are since your fuel is much more expensive than ours. Real easy to do the math on that though!

    Storage of fuel will be your biggest hurdle. We did natural gas here and have propane on site as an emergency. We are about 1 mile away from a major sub station thats fed by nuclear power 8 miles away so for the most part we have no issues other than high voltages between 1am and 4am for whatever reason.

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    The future will likely be the same and so these generators are the way to get by. I trust the flammable material CNC be taken care of if wanted.

    Infrastructure is hard to address unless planned in advance and there needs to be money to do that. There is similar problems in the country as a whole in the electric grid and extending to roads, bridges, and other things. Our forebears did a lot of infrastructure much quicker than we cn now and so we are at the point of inexperience to do this and we will learn it because we must.

    That is our future and it will move the country forward in wealth very much. It just gets put off now because everyone wants to make money right now. It can be done quickly because there are companies in the world that have great experience as builders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    Diesel is about the same to run as power here where we are so I would imagine it would be the same where you are since your fuel is much more expensive than ours. Real easy to do the math on that though!

    Storage of fuel will be your biggest hurdle. We did natural gas here and have propane on site as an emergency. We are about 1 mile away from a major sub station thats fed by nuclear power 8 miles away so for the most part we have no issues other than high voltages between 1am and 4am for whatever reason.
    What kind of cost kw/hr are you getting on natural gas?
    I need to pull the utility bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    I think you need to ask the manufacturers for quotes on that size but since 150kw
    277/480V 3-Phase units run about $30,000 I'm guessing close to $60,000 before installation cost. Since the 150kW units are more common you might consider splitting the loads and use 2 since you will need rewiring for transfer switches anyway.
    That sucks for real. Most will wait this out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    What kind of cost kw/hr are you getting on natural gas?
    I need to pull the utility bill
    Ill have to pull the bills and do the math again but when we did the research getting setup, the cost was less than utility power by a decent amount but when you add in the cost of maintenance, battery replacement for the starter, and cost of testing, it worked out to be about a penny more per hour which is ok for us.

    It's never going to replace true wired utility power in terms of reliability or cost but....having the freedom to never be without electricity is well worth the investment.

    We dont have the brown out issues you have but we do have downed lines in the winter from ice on trees. If you have natural gas near you, id get a generator with natural gas over diesel. Diesel prices are expensive and you have to pay for it upfront, natural gas on the other hand you pay for what you use when you use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    It would have been a lot better if the information they were sending out was accurate and precise. "We are going to shut off your power on this day at this exact time for this length of time". They called us multiple times with false information. I shut the shop off Tuesday night and they didn't cut the real power until 10pm Wednesday.

    Anyone know how much a generator that will supply 500 Amps of 480 power for a couple days will cost me? Afraid this is going to be the new norm and we just got our first terrible taste of it. Probably cost me 1/3 of the generator cost being down for almost 2 days of production.
    Lived off Diesel power, 'nam. Decided not to stay there, of course. Place had kinda been going downhill, 1921 onward, yah?

    I'd say the same about Kalifornikyah, present-day. "New norm" puts you at a more severe disadvantage against other productive base areas than it already was.

    It is not that the SOURCE of power is poor - as seen - it is the side effects.

    Fires. Too many of which are going to happen ANYWAY, "already, even", and with dreadful regularity going forward. You got some sort of personal magic boolit as can hope to actually change that? Not just for YOUR shop.. the whole at-risk zone. Not small, is that? Nor under your control, either.

    Power reliability comparison, here, storm effects the major determinant in lower fire-risk areas:

    Average frequency and duration of electric distribution outages vary by states - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

    Cheapest and best solution is to get TF out of Gilroy, not Dodge, relocate to an OVERALL safer base, shed your high costs, tax and regulatory hassles as a byproduct.

    Around 12% of the US population reside in Kalifornikyah. More than double what the environment can support. I'd say as much as FIVE times, actually. "Paradise lost", literally so.

    The other 88% are smarter than that? Well, noooo.. Not ALL of 'em.

    Theres's still scant excuse for New Yawk, Newark, Chicago....

    ...and WTF is it with moving to Florida?

    Hurricanes about to be legislated out of existence?

    Not until the Dumbasscraps take back the State, they are not!

    Last edited by thermite; 10-12-2019 at 09:14 PM.

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    ---^ agreed.

    Youre already automating your shop... Move where taxes are more favorable to you and your income and bring your skilled workers with you.

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    Back in the 80s we had multiple power outages here due to union action.....some places without power for months..........I used to buy and stockpile cheap generators of all sizes for strike times......you could get 5 times the going rate for hire machines,or outright sale.......then Jelke smashed the ETU (Elekky Trades Union),and there hasnt been a strike since......generating power from diesel is costly option,but not when you got a warehouse full of frozen meat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    And for an outage lasting a week or more a 10 kilowatt-hour battery is not nearly enough.

    Right now I'm sure that many with grid connected solar cells are getting a very unpleasant surprise - they don't work without the grid! It is possible to use a transfer switch and a generator where the solar cells will take much of the load off the generator during daytime but that depends on the contract. Depending on how the cells were sold the contract may only allow grid connection.
    Tesla home back-up battery was advertised/suggested for perhaps 4 days with limiting use. Not really much good for that high price when a simple gas portable costs only a few hundred.

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    In normal times,big gensets say 400/500kva arent worth much.....I.often used to buy the big stationery plants for scrap price.........not outage times ,when everybody wants one.......Out here,every high rise building must have a new genset installed,and they are often replaced with just test hours at 20 years....so you get a 20yr old genset ,virtually unused,for the cost of removal......which can often be borne by the owners /tennants where its being replaced.I could source a big heavy stationary set for around $7,000,generally with switchgear included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Cheapest and best solution is to get TF out of Gilroy, not Dodge, relocate to an OVERALL safer base, shed your high costs, tax and regulatory hassles as a byproduct.
    Unless the garlic fields catch fire, Gilroy is pretty safe. And it's more of a central valley county, not an SF or Berserkely Zone of Strangeness.

    You might like Eureka tho. Less populated, farther from the "techies" who are going to eventually infect Gilroy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Unless the garlic fields catch fire, Gilroy is pretty safe. And it's more of a central valley county, not an SF or Berserkely Zone of Strangeness.

    You might like Eureka tho. Less populated, farther from the "techies" who are going to eventually infect Gilroy.
    The whole damned state is f88ked, CMOS. Not that easy to "hide" when the rest of it is going to the wall. Taxes. Regulations. Decaying and overloaded transport infrastructure. Takes longer to get permits to START to do most anything that used to be do'ed and DONE in the time the permits now take.

    How many trains with how many passengers have been run over that high-speed rail link so much money - a lot of it Federal - was spent on?

    How many miles of track were laid in a nation that could once span the continent in just six years?

    What's the per-seat cost of portable toilets for LA?

    How do you figure Gilroy as a safe-haven with unreliable power? Eureka has Hydro Quebec, instead?

    No point in going on. The news has been fuller and fuller of shittier and shittier gloom for years, already.

    Yah, "boundless optimism" is an admirable California heritage, but still.... where is the investment to come from to replace every damned flammable tree, shrub, or blade of grass in the whole State with a fire-proof solar panel hooked to a near-shore de-sal plant?

    'Coz that's about what it will take... if anybody still has kids, grandkids, or the thought of 'em "someday. maybe". "AOC" is offshore at some conference whining she has no hope for kids -I mean - we will all be dead in.. what's left, only eleven years, now? I don't believe the 11 years. Good news, even so, that believing her own Bu Ci causes that particular Oxygen thief to not plan kids, though!



    Meanwhile.. what's the future of the SSR resemble? See Shanghai, Shenzen, Tokyo, Mexico City, Beijing/Tianjen.

    Well...they don't have forest fires, do they?

    Kinda UGLY, though, compared to what Santa Barbara, Monterrey.. Eureka.. or such USED To be like, are they not?

    Past its escape-by date, the Kalifornikyah SSR is. You are in Stinkhigh, instead, already?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Meanwhile.. what's the future of the SSR resemble? See Shanghai, Shenzen, Tokyo, Mexico City, Beijing/Tianjen.

    Well...they don't have forest fires, do they?
    We have fires every year. Some worse than others. Shrug. It's part of the landscape.

    Most people assume it'll never happen to them & do nothing to prepare.

    I've just finished all the control burning to the west of me where a fire is most likely to come from, and have extra water stored along with a couple fire pumps. Everything's cleared right to the boundary.

    My neighbours to the west - Greenies who believe in letting vegetation rot naturally, not burning it. Good luck to them when the fire eventually comes because I'm not expending my resources defending their place. Sounds pretty harsh but they've been warned and not just by me.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by as9100d View Post
    ---^ agreed.

    You're already automating your shop... Move where taxes are more favorable to you and your income and bring your skilled workers with you.
    Easier said then done. Been here my whole life... Family run business with 3 families involved now. My wife's side of the family is huge. I cant just pick up the business and our lives and move tomorrow. Ill give up some profit to keep that close family life we live.

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    Fair enough. Id look into some natural gas generators and get that stuff setup then you wont have to worry about the power company again. Depending on fuel... the coming months will be the cheapest to buy if you were to go propane and have storage.

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    If you do go with NG generator be sure to have propane back up, or just go with propane to begin with, even though fuel cost is more. Earthquakes have been known to break NG pipelines.

    On top of that it seems NG is starting to be pushed out:
    Berkeley became first US city to ban natural gas. Here's what that may mean for the future | Environment | The Guardian


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