California Power Outages - Page 9
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 9 of 14 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 269
  1. #161
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IWUP View Post
    Grid tie systems are great when the grid is reliable, GT systems take high voltage DC and convert to AC which is more efficient than off grid systems.
    Off grid systems require extra components like a charge controller and battery bank plus additional wiring of increased gauge sizes. In addition off grid systems can take the same high voltage DC input but then needs to reduce the voltage to the battery bank voltage (12, 24 or 48 are typical) then the inverter will output to 120 or 240vac. There's losses in doing this versus the GT system. The off grid systems obviously are there when you personally need them but you're not running a machine shop with the power available. A diesel generator is a better alternative. The GT inverters need to meet UL1741 anti-islanding requirement so they aren't putting power back on the grid when there's a lineman working, so when the grid goes down the inverter shuts down. There's pros and cons to both systems, there's also the option of a grid tie system that goes to off grid battery backup when the grid goes down. That's a different inverter from manufacturers like Outback Power. Grid tie systems are actually cheaper in terms of installation cost and the reduced power bill in backfeeding the grid.
    "Blue state", New York?

    Of course you would believe in doing all that the stupidist "only ONE right answer, and WE know it, rest of you lot are morons" way possible!

    ;(

    Stop at 24 V. Implement the battery bank as 12V & 12V off a central tap.
    Adapt to that. Use most of it "directly".

    Ever cross yer mind you could change most loads in a residence to low-voltage cheaper than buy complicated controls and inverters?

    Or than many already ARE lower-voltage? Got wall-warts? LED lighting? Check RV, auto/truck, aircraft & marine goods.

    Not hard to find. Not all that expensive.

    Up and running off mail-order, auto parts store, even Harbor Freight in a single weekend. Pick the "low hanging fruit" first, expand, later.

    And now yah need fewer, smaller inverters, and dumb as a box of beach-sand "one-way" inverters, even so.

    Solar is decent, yer area? Use most of that "directly" as well. Thermal rather than photovoltaic.

    Wind is handy? The reverse. Pump water to an elevated tank, and/or store power in a battery.

    "Lithium" and follow-on high density "munitions-grade" batteries? Make sense for mobile use, wheels or heels. Only.

    Safer CHEAPER saltwater battery makes more sense for fixed locations. No Lead, no Nickel, either. Dig a hole, prevent freezing, mostly DONE.

    Why d'you think the Chinese bought the company as pioneered that?

    Cheap stuff, and hardly in shortage, saltwater can be.

    Diesel has been here for years, BTW. Butane and Propane stoves as well as wood & coal too.

    Wiser folks always have been able to "mix and match".

    "No single point of failure" can also mean "no single barrier to getting started" and "no single killer debt".

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    24,477
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    4578

    Default

    "...you could change most loads in a residence to low-voltage cheaper..."

    Mmmmm. Great idea - how many D cells for this?


  3. Likes JoeE. liked this post
  4. #163
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    134
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    "Blue state", New York?

    Of course you would believe in doing all that the stupidist way possible!


    Stop at 24 V. Implement the battery bank as 12V & 12V off a central tap.

    Adapt to that. Use most of it "directly".

    Ever cross yer mind you could change most loads in a residence to low-voltage cheaper than buy complicated controls and inverters?

    Or than many already ARE lower-voltage? Got wall-warts? LED lighting? Check RV, auto/truck, aircraft & marine goods.

    Not hard to find. Not all that expensive.

    And now yah need fewer, smaller inverters, and dumb as a box of beach-sand "one-way".
    I'm not sure what color the state is has to do with the topic of grid tie power?
    Sure you can pull power directly off the battery if you have it close by to the end use and the voltage meet your needs, if you want to run a normal refrigerator, freezer or some other 120vac device the inverter is needed

  5. #164
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IWUP View Post
    I'm not sure what color the state is has to do with the topic of grid tie power?
    Suicidal stupidity in the body politic tends to screw up ALL rational thought.
    Your flawed world-view about grid-tie power was just the current example.

    Sure you can pull power directly off the battery if you have it close by to the end use and the voltage meet your needs,
    Well? F**ks sake? Why ever would it NOT be so? Hard to NOT have "the right conditions"!

    I mean, I should put my batteries over to the local school? Or right here, where the loads are in my OWN house?

    Get real!
    ..if you want to run a normal refrigerator, freezer or some other 120vac device the inverter is needed
    Big F*****g deal!

    One each Square-D main-lug panel for each of two groups of 120 VAC outlets intentionally installed with the long-axis of a duplex oriented horizontally, not vertically, bespoke colour of cover plates.

    Whydideyedoothatyears ago? They SHOUT "special use".

    A klew might be where they were PLACED? One near where each fridge freezer (three in all) can THEMSELVES be placed? Mebbe spent all of a hundred bucks, that project?

    The spare socket to power bars handle banks of chargers. Hand power tools, mobile devices, laptops, whatever.

    Two dumb inverters (redundancy thing - retired telco guy..) and I don't yet know how long the steaks will stay frozen, grid gone dead. Modern fridge/freezers don't NEED Hydro Quebec, dedicated per-each box.

    I'd guess I can rig for five years, unattended? Stand the risk losing one but not all if sumthin shits the bed? By definition, if "unattended", the fridge doors won't be standing open, will they?

    This shit is only HARD if you MAKE it hard.

    Off grid folk proved it out ages ago. Learn from what they learned.

    Even if you AIN'T in the third-word power-reliability zone of the Kalifornikyah SSR.
    Or - for that matter - Consolidated Edison, provider of darkness to New York City.

  6. #165
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New York
    Posts
    134
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Suicidal stupidity in the body politic tends to screw up ALL rational thought.
    Your flawed world-view about grid-tie power was just the current example.
    Well? F**ks sake? Why ever woudl it NOT be so? Hard to NOT have!

    I mean, I should put my batteries over to the local school? Or right here, where the loads are in my OWN house?

    Get real!


    Big Fucking deal!

    One each Square-D main-lug panel for each of two groups of 120 VAC outlets intentionally installed with the long-axis of a duplex oriented horizontally, not vertically, bespoke colour of cover plates.

    Whydideyedoothatyears ago?

    A klew might be where htey ARE? One near where each fridge freezer (three in all) can be placed? Mebbe spen a hundred bucks?

    The spares run banks of chargers. Hand power tools, mobile devices, laptops, whatever.

    Two dumb inverters and I don't yet know how long the steaks will stay frozen, grid gone dead.

    I'd guess I can rig for five years, unattended, risk losing one but not all if sumthin shits the bed?

    This shit is only HARD if you MAKE it hard.
    What's hard is reading your posts. Your post that I responded to originally was saying grid tie was dumb and costly, what the hell are you talking about?
    Red state, blue state, who gives a shit

  7. Likes dbrimm liked this post
  8. #166
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IWUP View Post
    What's hard is reading your posts. Your post that I responded to originally was saying grid tie was dumb and costly, what the hell are you talking about?
    Red state, blue state, who gives a shit
    Red states are red because folks "give a shit", learn what they need to learn, take practical action on it.

    Blue states are blue because folks do not "give a shit" and already know what they wish to limit themselves to knowing.

    They figure hatred is easier than thinking, and parasitizing Other People's Money is a bottomless well. Just vote yerself all you need and piss it away on fairy tales.

    I didn't create that sad state of affairs. I'm just one of the many learning from it.

  9. #167
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    "...you could change most loads in a residence to low-voltage cheaper..."

    Mmmmm. Great idea - how many D cells for this?

    Four. Inline.

    Lister-Petter, liquid-cooled, 1800 RPM, normally aspirated, #2 diesel, selector switch set to 3-Phase Wye.

    Hard times, the only power I might need is the cordless hand-tools to apply plywood (stocked) to hasty-patch hurricane damage or such.

    Even so, nothing in the shop that MEP-803a gen set cannot run two of at once. That's more than good enough.

    Your gen set is what, again?

  10. #168
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NoCal
    Posts
    454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    436
    Likes (Received)
    514

    Default

    Seriously thermite, can you just give it a rest? It would be one thing if if you could write a coherent sentence or had something meaningful to say, but that ship has long sailed. At this point your word vomit is just stinking up the place.

  11. Likes dbrimm, Rewt, daryl bane, JoeE. liked this post
  12. #169
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8640

    Default

    Happy to count it a good day any time I can manipulate multiple f**kwits at a go!

    First one or two come out into view? More usually follow!

    You'd have to understand "lemmings"?


  13. #170
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    West Virginia
    Posts
    1,049
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    531
    Likes (Received)
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    How good is a small modern generator for all the computer appliances now. I do not mean real computers but stoves, washing machines and fridges have computer controls now. Do they do okay on generator power or is it too "dirty" for the control computers?
    They do just fine, including real computers. I have had various generators over the years. The latest is a 25kw diesel trailer mounted (Wacker G25). When we loose power we can continue without even knowing the power is out. Everything works just fine. It even has 240/480 3ph (not all at the same time). 50 gal diesel. Another 275 tank with off road fuel which I heat the shop with when all is well but intended to be backup power fuel if needed.

  14. #171
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Deal View Post
    When we loose power we can continue without even knowing the power is out.
    "Small" may have not given a thought to this, but where "whole house" can be as little as 10 KVA, house AND shop 25 KVA and up..(upper bound is wwaaaaay larger!!!), the issue of "transfer switching", manual or automatic, and automatic gen set starting also comes up.

    Best chased-up on the internet in general. It is really well covered. It starts at simple and manual - entry point is just a power-cord - to complex, hard-wired, and automatic.


    Disclosure: Cummins-Onan 60 A Automatic Transfer Switch here, plus two 60 A "manual" Square-D 3-P for load-shedding/selecting, all bought used-but good.

    Left Coast has fires, Earthquake, accumulated and worsening rotten utility practices as can harm folks nowhere near the hurt-locker - just "sideswiped".

    Our patch, we have blizzards, ice-storms that down distant HV feeders, also often miles away.

  15. #172
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Modesto, CA USA
    Posts
    7,022
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Four. Inline.

    Lister-Petter, liquid-cooled, 1800 RPM, normally aspirated, #2 diesel, selector switch set to 3-Phase Wye.

    Hard times, the only power I might need is the cordless hand-tools to apply plywood (stocked) to hasty-patch hurricane damage or such.

    Even so, nothing in the shop that MEP-803a gen set cannot run two of at once. That's more than good enough.

    Your gen set is what, again?
    One option for a battery starter on my gravely tractor was 120 D cell batteries in a box. This was just after the great war before many folks had power to the farm.

  16. #173
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D View Post
    One option for a battery starter on my gravely tractor was 120 D cell batteries in a box. This was just after the great war before many folks had power to the farm.
    Our tracters had always had crank-handles, even if they did grow batteries.

    We got first electric power - 30 A later 60 A - after the Korean War in 1953 IIRC. That supported an electric shallow-well pump and we could fully activate the indoor bathroom Dad had built, plus a side-arm gas water heater, have hot and cold water at the tap and a flush toilet as no longer needed hauling of buckets.

    We had operated off gas lights, gas fridge, gas range, gas fireplaces.
    A large walk in "smokehouse" augmented food storage. Usually meats enough for three months to a year a'hanging. Add a root cellar, 8=foot square room full of preserves, pickles and such put up through each year. Never less than 9-12 months food to-hand.

    For water a back-porch hand pump and mini hand pump right at the kitchen sink. Kept the old outdoor privy for years as an emergency second shitter!

    By comparison?

    My 90 yr old Cantonese M'in Law had electric lights in her small village near Guangzhou more than 20 years before we had it in our corner of West Virginia.

    "Too soon we forget" that our ancestors had none of this stuff, nor medical care, either, first 300,000 years as modern humans, or that not all parts of "the Americas" have it, even today.

    And then there are other continents.

    The problem is not that humans are not capable of adapting to getting by in a more austere manner.

    The problem is not even so much that we have come to always expect more, never LESS!

    The REAL problem?

    "It ain't MY job! Some other entity f**ked me up and I'm going to SUE!"

    What's that get a body? A share of PG&E's unpayable debt as YOUR debt? No need for court action. Like it or never, you already HAVE those costs.

    "There ought to be a law.....!"

    Just Go for it! Free lunch, Free college. Free healthcare. Free Other People's Money, Free everything.

    Even "Free Trump" so the bugger can get in his private jet and fly off to some nicer place, not have to come to work at the White House at all? Not as if he was taking a wage.

    Even on THAT one?

    Who pays?

  17. #174
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    592
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    135
    Likes (Received)
    220

    Default

    There has been some very interesting post from the Anti Californians.

    Just a reminder to those that plot the demise of CA, California has zip codes that out produce many states total output. So before you put your political foot up your ass........... remember who is on top.

  18. Likes Larry Dickman, Greg White liked this post
  19. #175
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    7,489
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    709
    Likes (Received)
    3541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    What have you been smokin? The Voters? They elected that sack of shit Brown 4 times. Not once, 4 times. They elected Davis twice, and that utterly useless piece of shit Swanznegger. You still have faith in the voters? Give it up
    Maxine Waters has been an elected official in California for over 40 years. I don't think that can be topped for voter stupidity.

  20. Likes Larry Dickman, tdmidget liked this post
  21. #176
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,602
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1217

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    Maxine Waters has been an elected official in California for over 40 years. I don't think that can be topped for voter stupidity.
    Georgia voted for Richard Russell for at least that long. And Strom Thurmond lasted for way more than forty years.

    I am sure we can come up with a bunch more idiots from other states to refute your claim. How long has Mitch McConnell been in Congress ?

  22. Likes Greg White liked this post
  23. #177
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    There has been some very interesting post from the Anti Californians.

    Just a reminder to those that plot the demise of CA, California has zip codes that out produce many states total output. So before you put your political foot up your ass........... remember who is on top.
    "Demise" is home-grown, not external. It isn't the observers nor the messengers causing it. Y'all are simply getting what you asked for. Your right and privilege, that.

    Sitting "on top" of a mountain of debt, a mountain of challenges the alleged "government" wont even address in any sane way?

    This is going to last forever, and get better every year, going forward.

    What could possibly go wrong!

    Folks don't hate-on California.

    We mourn it.

  24. #178
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    15,731
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otrlt View Post
    There has been some very interesting post from the Anti Californians.

    Just a reminder to those that plot the demise of CA, California has zip codes that out produce many states total output. So before you put your political foot up your ass........... remember who is on top.
    I want the prez to withhold all of my federal tax money that goes to your "state".

    You attitude towards the rest of us just re-enforces the idear of activating the fault lines, and sliding your sorry butt into the pacific.
    While your "beating your chest" try checking to make sure your PFD is on....

    You don't have a lock on anything, every industry is represented elsewhere, as evidenced by the "mass migration" of business & industries of all kind, out of the "land of nutz".

  25. #179
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,803
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I want the prez to withhold all of my federal tax money that goes to your "state".
    Be fair, Doug.

    California, recent figures, if constantly changing, was sending over 13 billion US$ a year, or $348 per RESIDENT, more TO the federal black-hole than they get BACK.

    THIS.. and their ability to hold government hostage, is part of why they think they are "on top".

    The rest of the country could deal with the loss of that 13 billion. The damage it is causing has become far too high.

    But "deal with" that loss we assuredly must prepare for.

    The ability - never mind "willingness" - to send it is at grave risk, and going worse off the back of ever more pressing local needs. Taxpayers simply cannot afford the burden they are ALREADY saddled with.

    Put it in perspective. 13 billion would not even cover "band-aids" for PG&E's needs alone. And "alone" they assuredly are not.

  26. #180
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    15,731
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Be fair, Doug.

    California, recent figures, if constantly changing, was sending over 13 billion US$ a year, or $348 per RESIDENT, more TO the federal black-hole than they get BACK.

    THIS.. and their ability to hold government hostage, is part of why they think they are "on top".

    The rest of the country could deal with the loss of that 13 billion. The damage it is causing has become far too high.

    But "deal with" that loss we assuredly must prepare for.

    The ability - never mind "willingness" - to send it is at grave risk, and going worse off the back of ever more pressing local needs.
    I simply don't want my money supporting things done in Kalifornia:
    1. Abuse/mis-usage of federal tax money (supporting illegals, buying bridges from china, etc.)
    2. Abuse of the constitution, and the rights of it's citizens.
    3. deliberate abuse of the fire control system to encourage more fires, to keep milking the system (the federally funded system) there are quotes from managers backing this up, even when people die.
    4. shutting off utilities leading to deaths (Enron, and now PG&E), leaving people stranded,
    and no way to fight the fire without water.

    5. Our military provides better services to Iraq.

    You can keep your sending money there, free country.

    There should be more "check off boxes" on the 1040 eh ?


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •