Can the USA build Trump's battleships or not. - Page 10
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 891011 LastLast
Results 181 to 200 of 213
  1. #181
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    2,564
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2058
    Likes (Received)
    907

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    They left John McCain in after the forestall.
    Nepotism has no boundries

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    4,984
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    137
    Likes (Received)
    1360

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    They left John McCain in after the forestall.
    What are you going on about? There is a wealth of forensic evidence showing exactly what happened on the Forrestal, and neither McCain, nor any other pilot, was the root cause. In fact, the Zuni rocket that misfired launched from an F4 parked on the opposite side of the flight deck from McCain's aircraft.

    Regards.

    Mike

  3. #183
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    2,564
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2058
    Likes (Received)
    907

    Default

    Finegrain seems correct about mccain not being blamed:
    FACT CHECK: Did John McCain Cause a Fire Aboard the USS Forrestal that Killed 134 People?
    Navy made film, from the link:
    YouTube

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    12,770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    54
    Likes (Received)
    5583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Finegrain seems correct about mccain not being blamed:
    FACT CHECK: Did John McCain Cause a Fire Aboard the USS Forrestal that Killed 134 People?
    Navy made film, from the link:
    YouTube
    Good to know.

  5. #185
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,393
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2863
    Likes (Received)
    421

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Like Will Rogers III ?
    What about Will Rogers? I do not get this.

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    2,564
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2058
    Likes (Received)
    907

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    What about Will Rogers? I do not get this.
    He was captain of the vincense?, that shot down the iranian passenger jet in the late '80's

  7. #187
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    2,564
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2058
    Likes (Received)
    907

    Default

    Just found this story on it, relating it to the ukraine sooting down mh17.:

    America’s Flight 17
    The time the United States blew up a passenger plane—and tried to cover it up.

    By FRED KAPLAN

    As the Boston Globe’s defense correspondent at the time, I reported on the Vincennes shoot-down, and I have gone back over my clips, chronicling the official lies and misstatements as they unraveled. Here’s the truly dismaying part of the story. On Aug. 19, 1988, nearly seven weeks after the event, the Pentagon issued a 53-page report on the incident. Though the text didn’t say so directly, it found that nearly all the initial details about the shoot-down—the “facts” that senior officials cited to put all the blame on Iran Air’s pilot—were wrong. And yet the August report still concluded that the captain and all the other Vincennes officers acted properly.

    For example, on July 3, at the first Pentagon press conference on the incident, Adm. William Crowe, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that the Iranian plane had been flying at 9,000 feet and descending at a “high speed” of 450 knots, “headed directly” for the Vincennes. In fact, however, the Aug. 19 report—written by Rear Adm. William Fogarty of U.S. Central Command—concluded (from computer tapes found inside the ship’s combat information center) that the plane was “ascending through 12,000 feet” at the much slower speed of 380 knots. “At no time” did the Airbus “actually descend in altitude,” the report stated.

    When I pointed out this discrepancy at the press conference where the report was handed out, Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci waved me away and said, “It’s really questionable whether a different reading would have affected the judgment” to shoot down the plane. (I still find this astonishing.)

    There were other equally disturbing discrepancies between Crowe’s July 3 press conference (which struck me as suspicious even at the time) and Fogarty’s Aug. 19 report. Crowe had said the plane was flying “outside the prescribed commercial air route”; the report said it was flying “within the established air route.” Crowe had said the plane’s transponder was “squawking” a code over the “Mode 2” military channel; the report stated that it was squawking over the “Mode 3” civilian channel. Crowe had said the Vincennes issued several warnings; the report confirmed this, but noted, “Due to heavy pilot workload during take-off and climb-out, and the requirement to communicate with” two air traffic control centers, the pilot “probably was not monitoring” the international air-distress channel.


    Adm. George B. Crist, head of U.S. Central Command, issued a “non-punitive letter of censure” to the ship’s anti–air warfare officer, but Secretary of Defense Carlucci withdrew the letter. Not only that, but two years later, Capt. Rogers was issued the Legion of Merit “for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service” as the Vincennes’ commander “from April 1987 to May 1989.”

    One more shocking bit, which I didn’t know until just now: In 1992, four years after the event (and shortly after I moved on to a different beat), Adm. Crowe admitted on ABC’s Nightline that the Vincennes was in Iranian waters at the time it shot down the plane. Back in 1988, he and others had said that the ship was in international waters. It also came out that some other Navy officers had regarded Rogers as “aggressive” and found it strange that he was moving his Aegis cruiser into those waters to pursue Iranian patrol boats—overkill at best, asking for trouble in any case. The distractions of the chase, possibly combined with the fact that the Aegis radar-guided missile system was new at the time, may have led to his fatal misjudgment.


    Not long after the shoot-down, Iran asked the United Nations Security Council to censure the United States for its “criminal act” against Iran Air Flight 655. Vice President George H.W. Bush, who was running to succeed Ronald Reagan as president, said on the campaign trail, “I will never apologize for the United States—I don’t care what the facts are.”

    Finally, in 1996, President Bill Clinton’s administration expressed “deep regret” and paid the Iranian government $131.8 million in compensation, of which $61.8 million would go to the victims’ families. In exchange, Tehran agreed to drop its case against the United States in the International Court of Justice.

    Many Iranians continued to believe, for many years, that the shoot-down was deliberate. They found it hard to believe that the United States Navy, with its polish and dazzle, could have committed such a ghastly deed by mistake. And they were ready to believe that America—“the Great Satan,” after all—was capable of such evil.

    Link: The Vincennes’ downing of Iran Air Flight 655: The United States tried to cover up its own destruction of a passenger plane.

  8. Likes dalmatiangirl61 liked this post
  9. #188
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California, Central Coast
    Posts
    2,564
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2058
    Likes (Received)
    907

    Default

    Saw an article this morning that the USN is retiring harry truman aircraft carrier way ahead of schedule, article says due to inabilty to protecy it from precision missiles.
    Exerpt:

    The US Defense Department made a controversial decision in its latest budget, retiring one of its 11 aircraft carriers decades earlier than scheduled. The surprise move raised a series of questions, but a report this week sheds new light on the motivations.
    ...
    But one Defense Department official said, according to a report on Tuesday, that the decision was made not in preparation for adding new carriers, but rather to fund the development of new weapons that could better face Chinese military advancements.

    Because of the potential vulnerability of massive aircraft carriers to China’s precision-guided missiles, the official told Breaking Defense, the US Navy needed to invest in new options.

    Asia Times | Official cites China as US carrier exits early | Article

  10. #189
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Woodland Hills, Ca. and some times Hutchinson, Ks.
    Posts
    2,193
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7
    Likes (Received)
    506

    Default

    Along the lines of Rob's post,

    The Rand Institute war game study reported earlier this week paints a dim picture for US forces in both Asia and the Baltic. The assertions that China and, Russia would overwhelm defense systems on surface fleets with massive onslaughts was predictable.

    Big question now, why are building more? Between the F35 and the Navy we are spending hundreds of billions on stuff to fight 20th century wars, in the 21st century.

    Steve

  11. Likes Rob F. liked this post
  12. #190
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,066
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    371
    Likes (Received)
    1429

    Default

    Funny how those Rand studies always come out right around the Pentagon budget time...

  13. Likes shpxnvz, Trboatworks liked this post
  14. #191
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,393
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2863
    Likes (Received)
    421

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Just found this story on it, relating it to the ukraine sooting down mh17.:

    America’s Flight 17
    The time the United States blew up a passenger plane—and tried to cover it up.

    By FRED KAPLAN

    As the Boston Globe’s defense correspondent at the time, I reported on the Vincennes shoot-down, and I have gone back over my clips, chronicling the official lies and misstatements as they unraveled. Here’s the truly dismaying part of the story. On Aug. 19, 1988, nearly seven weeks after the event, the Pentagon issued a 53-page report on the incident. Though the text didn’t say so directly, it found that nearly all the initial details about the shoot-down—the “facts” that senior officials cited to put all the blame on Iran Air’s pilot—were wrong. And yet the August report still concluded that the captain and all the other Vincennes officers acted properly.

    For example, on July 3, at the first Pentagon press conference on the incident, Adm. William Crowe, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that the Iranian plane had been flying at 9,000 feet and descending at a “high speed” of 450 knots, “headed directly” for the Vincennes. In fact, however, the Aug. 19 report—written by Rear Adm. William Fogarty of U.S. Central Command—concluded (from computer tapes found inside the ship’s combat information center) that the plane was “ascending through 12,000 feet” at the much slower speed of 380 knots. “At no time” did the Airbus “actually descend in altitude,” the report stated.

    When I pointed out this discrepancy at the press conference where the report was handed out, Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci waved me away and said, “It’s really questionable whether a different reading would have affected the judgment” to shoot down the plane. (I still find this astonishing.)

    There were other equally disturbing discrepancies between Crowe’s July 3 press conference (which struck me as suspicious even at the time) and Fogarty’s Aug. 19 report. Crowe had said the plane was flying “outside the prescribed commercial air route”; the report said it was flying “within the established air route.” Crowe had said the plane’s transponder was “squawking” a code over the “Mode 2” military channel; the report stated that it was squawking over the “Mode 3” civilian channel. Crowe had said the Vincennes issued several warnings; the report confirmed this, but noted, “Due to heavy pilot workload during take-off and climb-out, and the requirement to communicate with” two air traffic control centers, the pilot “probably was not monitoring” the international air-distress channel.


    Adm. George B. Crist, head of U.S. Central Command, issued a “non-punitive letter of censure” to the ship’s anti–air warfare officer, but Secretary of Defense Carlucci withdrew the letter. Not only that, but two years later, Capt. Rogers was issued the Legion of Merit “for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service” as the Vincennes’ commander “from April 1987 to May 1989.”

    One more shocking bit, which I didn’t know until just now: In 1992, four years after the event (and shortly after I moved on to a different beat), Adm. Crowe admitted on ABC’s Nightline that the Vincennes was in Iranian waters at the time it shot down the plane. Back in 1988, he and others had said that the ship was in international waters. It also came out that some other Navy officers had regarded Rogers as “aggressive” and found it strange that he was moving his Aegis cruiser into those waters to pursue Iranian patrol boats—overkill at best, asking for trouble in any case. The distractions of the chase, possibly combined with the fact that the Aegis radar-guided missile system was new at the time, may have led to his fatal misjudgment.


    Not long after the shoot-down, Iran asked the United Nations Security Council to censure the United States for its “criminal act” against Iran Air Flight 655. Vice President George H.W. Bush, who was running to succeed Ronald Reagan as president, said on the campaign trail, “I will never apologize for the United States—I don’t care what the facts are.”

    Finally, in 1996, President Bill Clinton’s administration expressed “deep regret” and paid the Iranian government $131.8 million in compensation, of which $61.8 million would go to the victims’ families. In exchange, Tehran agreed to drop its case against the United States in the International Court of Justice.

    Many Iranians continued to believe, for many years, that the shoot-down was deliberate. They found it hard to believe that the United States Navy, with its polish and dazzle, could have committed such a ghastly deed by mistake. And they were ready to believe that America—“the Great Satan,” after all—was capable of such evil.

    Link: The Vincennes’ downing of Iran Air Flight 655: The United States tried to cover up its own destruction of a passenger plane.
    I remember that it was tragic. Someone proposed the Iranians filled the plane with dead passengers and basically intended to ram the jet into the US Ship. Do you remember when Iraq fired a Exocet missile at a US Ship?
    USS Stark incident - Wikipedia

  15. #192
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    ga,usa
    Posts
    156
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    125
    Likes (Received)
    48

    Default

    How different would it be if our equipment was priced the same as China or Russia? I read that the M16 replacement will cost the taxpayer $3000 each. The opposition spends most of its money on lots of functional equipment and very little on benefits. We spend it on overpriced gear and unbeatable benefits. Whilst most of the youngsters I have met join the military with a bit of patriotism - benefits and pension are soon the biggest part of the conversation. The others do not join because they did not like the President and did not want to risk benefits and pension over being shot at. They have no intention of starring in a modern version of "They Shall not grow old."

  16. #193
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,393
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2863
    Likes (Received)
    421

    Default

    What is the M16 replacement called? I know they have been trying to decide for some time.

  17. #194
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    12,770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    54
    Likes (Received)
    5583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    What is the M16 replacement called? I know they have been trying to decide for some time.
    They should call it the AK47.

    Seriously, there’s little real improvement to be made in either platformas far as their function as a people killing tool goes.

  18. #195
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,393
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2863
    Likes (Received)
    421

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    They should call it the AK47.

    Seriously, there’s little real improvement to be made in either platformas far as their function as a people killing tool goes.
    I am sure that is not what is considered.

  19. #196
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Maryland- USA
    Posts
    3,175
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1664
    Likes (Received)
    1920

    Default

    The are cycling back towards a somewhat larger round to increase accuracy and lethality at longer ranges.

  20. #197
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    12,770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    54
    Likes (Received)
    5583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    The are cycling back towards a somewhat larger round to increase accuracy and lethality at longer ranges.
    Then capacity and weight are impacted.
    But fine.
    Pack a 6.5mm into a blown out 5.56 and swap followers and a barrel.
    There’s already a squad shooter with a big gun.

    Hell, just issue AR10 for long engagements, keep the 15 for CQ.
    Same ergo as has been trained for decades.
    Existing manufacturing in place.
    Decades of improvements already done.

  21. #198
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    1,164
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    521

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinit View Post
    What is the M16 replacement called?
    Giant Money-Wasting Boondoggle ?

  22. #199
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    12,770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    54
    Likes (Received)
    5583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Giant Money-Wasting Boondoggle ?
    The MWB-12??

  23. #200
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,393
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2863
    Likes (Received)
    421

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Giant Money-Wasting Boondoggle ?
    Yes a really bad screw up. It is hard to fix these kinds of things as they had not proven them very well.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
2